Megastar Pastor Rick Warren slipped into the conference hall unnoticed Tuesday night, comfortably mingling with the hundreds of pastors gathered, before stepping on stage to deliver a sermon that reminded the audience why Warren is one of the most popular pastors in the world.
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Rick Warren on Moses' Staff and Book's Success
By
Michelle A. Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Thu, Apr. 10 2008 01:20 PM EDT
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CP2008,
Thank you for your comments. I have not spent a lot of time researching RW and what he is doing now. I don't watch that much TV down here anymore. My comments mostly are based on the positive impact I have seen in the past from The Purpose Driven Life, actually the 40 Days of Purpose ministry material when used properly in a church. When it is used in conjunction with the small group studies and the weekly sermons at church, I think that it is an effective tool.
I personally know people who gave their hearts to the Lord during those small group studies. On it's own, I think it may a little lacking. I don't think the original purpose of the book was to just be handed out as a means of spreading the Gospel (I may be wrong). But my point is, used properly it is a good tool.
As far as everything else RW has been doing, like I said I don't agree with everything anybody does. I was not pleased about him giving his pulpit over to Hillary Clinton, even if it was an AIDS conference.
I was under the impression and again, I may be wrong, but after Joel Osteen missed his opportunity on Larry King to present a clear Gospel, I thought I heard that (and maybe saw) excerpts from RW on Larry King where he laid it out wery well. But like I said, I may be wrong about that.
I do think that some pastors can get a little overboard with trying to be TOO creative in their preaching. My sermons tend to be about 60% scripture and 40% Pablito.
If RW is straying away from presenting a clear Gospel, I pray that he will find his way back. The truth is not hard to sell once you have an audience although not all will buy it (unfortunately).
God bless,
Pablito
pastorpabilto,
Bless you in your ministry and thank you for your comments here.
As you said you will do many things to get people to hear the gospel. The key is you want them to hear the gospel. And here in lies the problem – Mr. Warren doesn’t proclaim the Biblical gospel. So if one incorporates all types of methods to get people to become “attenders” at their church or join in on their agenda to “eliminate poverty” or “stop AIDS” but those people never hear the Biblical gospel, then the conversions that take place under that ministry are for the most part false conversions. False gospel, false conversion.
When Mr. Warren introduced his “Global Peace Plan” he prefaced it by saying “You've heard me say many times that the greatest thing you can do with your life is tell somebody about Jesus ... I was wrong. There is one thing you can do greater than share Jesus Christ with somebody, and it is help start a church." (Sermon 11/2003)
Thus the “P” in his Peace Plan stood for “plant churches”. However, it later morphed into “Plant Faith Communities” – which includes ALL religions, and now it has been changed into “Promote Reconciliation” – which can mean anything. No more mention of ‘planting churches’. His Global Peace Plan is NOT about proclaiming the gospel.
This is a very grave issue since Mr. Warren’s purpose driven theology has become the OFFICIAL religion of 2 entire nations – Rwanda and Uganda – and the plan is for it to infiltrate every nation on the face of the earth.
This is a bold statement and one that I would be happy to be wrong about - but Mr. Warren does not preach the Biblical gospel.
Again here is an OPEN CHALLENGE to ANYONE.
Provide a link or other documentation where Mr. Warren has proclaimed the clear and unambiguous Biblical gospel to a crowd of unbelievers.
Examples of words used in the clear and unambiguous presentation of the Biblical gospel: holiness, sin, judgment, sacrifice, cross, blood, Jesus, atonement, repent, believe, salvation, redeem, justify…
Examples of a crowd of unbelievers: United Nations Interfaith Prayer Breakfast, Jewish Synagogue, Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, US Congress, TED Conference, Davos World Economic Forum, Council of Foreign Relations, articles written in Ladies Home Journal, Purpose Driven Life book, 2007 Christmas Message to all Wal-Mart and Sam’s Stores (all of which Mr. Warren has spoken at or written in)…
Thank you.
I have to say that Rick Warren is starting to punch some good buttons.
Before we are too critical of what Mr. Warren has to say here, place yourself in Moses' position and be ready with your own staff to obey God's commandments.
And one more thing, remember these warnings, Rom 14:4 “Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls.” (NIV)
Rom 14:12-13 “So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.” (NIV) God will take care of His servants.
None of us knows what goes on with the day to day of all these preachers. We only hear the snippets and what others say about them. I would imagine you could pick a few things out of any of our lives and/or sermons and make us all look like heretics. Do any of us know how much salvation goes on in the back rooms of Saddleback or in the homes of the members or even the office of Rick Warren?
I always looked at Purpose Driven Life, not so much as an evangelism tool, but as a Christian growth book. I watched it do wonders to the lives of believers in many churches and I also saw many become Christians as they were ministered to by others in their small groups and found salvation.
Do I agree with everything Rick wrote? NO, but then again I don’t agree with everything anybody has written. Piper, MacArthur, McDonald, my theology professors and the list goes on and on. I know I see fruit from Rick Warren’s ministry and others and I would ask the critics to show us YOUR abundance of fruit before we listen to you attack them. Let’s get you and your ministries into the media and limelight and see how well you hold up to the test.
I’m not here to say one way or another about Rick Warren and some of the others. But I will say this, go stand on a street corner and shout “Repent, for the Kingdom of God is here!” Count how many people come running to you for salvation. I’ve tried it, it doesn’t work. Open a church and preach repentance every week and see how many remain after a few weeks or even show up to begin with. I’ve seen it, it doesn’t work. The job of preaching the Gospel is not exclusive to pastors and the church building.
Those who want to condemn seeker services and attracting people in different ways should take a close look at what Paul says in 1 Cor 9:20-23 “To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.” (NIV) SO THAT BY ALL POSSIBLE MEANS, I MIGHT SAVE....SOME!!!!
I wish it was easy to do, my life would be simpler. But since it isn’t, I will give away clothes, addiction counseling, medical help, even serve sandwiches, cookies and coffee if it will get people in to our building to hear the Gospel. Until I get someone into my presence and willing to listen to me or someone else, I cannot share the Gospel with them. I want to look them in the eye and tell them about Jesus. Get them into a church and the body of Christ should be helping to do the ministering. I'm serving in a third world country where there is nothing to do, I can just imagine how hard it is to get to people in the rat race the US has become.
Peter saw 3000 saved in one day, but who were they? They were Jews who were waiting for a Messiah and he convinced them that day that Christ, the one they crucified, was the one they waited for. These weren’t materialistic, gotta have it now, greedy, drug and alcohol addicted, fun and sun worshipping, sexually immoral Americans (or whoever) (and yes, I am an American). If they had been, I would imagine that he would have had to have taken a different approach to get them to listen to him.
If living an improvished life is a sign of holiness, then all nuns and priest in the catholic faith are saints.
The Bible tells us our jobs is bringing souls to Christ that is our purposed driven life. Material wealth is what the devil uses to ensnare us; he offered Jesus all the material things of this world.
Rick Warren....what is your FAITH??? Nevermind the "what's in your hand stuff!!!"
This Pastor is not mine, nor is he millions of others either. Although some have equated him with being "America's Pastor," that is far from being true. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing, and instead of calling his book the Purpose Driven Life, what about the Christ-driven Life??? He doesn't make much of that, and he's in that category where he really believes he'll usher in the Kingdom of God on earth!! What arrogance?? Political and religiously correct, I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYTHING THIS MAN HAS EVER WRITTEN!!! STICK TO YOUR BIBLES, OR BETTER YET, READ THE PURITANS!!!
REPENT, Warren, THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!
You know Ricky has some nerve showing up, after both him and Hybels Seeker-Sensitive Theology has been TOTALLY discredited by non other than Willow Creek and Hybels himself!!! Where is Warren's apology for destroying thousands of churches and "Christians" with "purpose driven" heresies?
The message about the Rod of God is true. However, coming from Warren, it has no Holy Ghost power behind it. I hope those pastors already know this!! Maybe next year they will invite a real preacher like John McArthur or James MacDonald!
LORD HELP US!!
Hybels has made up for his misleading of millions off a cliff by adding to it! He just jumped into the snake pit with Brian McLaren and the worse-than-gnostic Emerging Church. McLaren's new book basically denies the EXCLUSIVITY OF CHRIST AS THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE. This very week, McLaren is corrupting America's youth at WillowCreek's Youth SHIFT Conference!
Come to think of it, I can see why these people at the National Conference on Preaching would hang on every word of this clown - Rick Warren....they all want to be like him! He really thinks he is America's "pastor"!!
Why are these 'saints' pursuing wealth? Are we not suppose to be making disciples? We store up treasure in heaven by the bringing new souls into the kingdom. Daniel says those who turn many to righteousness will shine like the stars.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction - 2Peter 2:1.
btw coffee a good resource to start with...A BEREAN'S DISCERNMENT TOOL
FOR THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE
http://cicministry.org/berean.php
The Gospel: A Method or a Message?
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue80.htm
Redefining Christianity Radio Broadcasts:
http://cicministry.org/radio_series.php?series=redefining
True and false Unity
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue88.htm
How Pietism Deceives Christians (Yes, purpose driven is a form of pietism)
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue101.htm
Redefining the Church:The Church Growth Movement's Unbiblical Definition of the Church
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue85.htm
Recovering Reformation Theology: Rejecting Synergism and Returning to Monergism
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue93.htm
Faulty Premises of the Church Growth Movement
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue89.htm
“Church Health Award” From Rick Warren or Jesus Christ?
A Study of the Seven Churches in Revelation
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue86.htm
coffee, you need to do some reading of books other than the Purpose Driven Life. The truth is out there if you bother to look for it.
" Moses used the staff to pull or push his sheep." They also use them to drive off the wolves of false teaching.
However Rick Warren consistently uses his staff to beat any sheep that get out of line and eventually leave them behind if they don't 'get with the (unbiblical) purpose driven program.'
coffee, go through PDL and find the place where he says "Pray this prayer - Jesus I believe you and I receive you - if you meant that prayer sincerely, welcome to the family of God." THEN go back from there and read UP to that point and try to find a coherent presentation of the gospel. This MUST include our complete deadness in sin, God's wrath directed against everyone who sins and the eventual destination of hell for all, the voluntary blood atonement, death, resurrection of Christ so that IF WE REPENT of our sins and surrender to God/Christ as Lord, we can have forgiveness of those sins and avert God's wrath.
Jesus I believe you and I receive you, without explaining the situation, without turning your back on all others, is not enough.
coffee,
You asked “Did Jesus use the exact same phrase over and over again?”
YES, He did (Matthew 4:17). In fact so did John the Baptist (Matthew 3:1-2), Peter (Acts 2:38), Paul (Acts 17:30-31) and all of the disciples (Mark 6:12)
How can one state it more clearly? Mr. Warren is preaching a different gospel – which is in fact no gospel at all, according to scripture (Galatians 1).
If you – or anyone – disagrees, then PLEASE accept the challenge put forth below…
Warren critics: are you all saying that he isn't saved, never was, lost it, or exactly what? Is he leading thousands to hell? Exactly what is he doing that is evil? Does every person following Christ have to have the same ministry as everyone else and use the same phraseology in communicating? Did Jesus use the exact same phrase over and over again? Or is he being criticized because he is so famous?
Hi Mikeymike you stated "i wonder how many of you would keep only 10% of your money and give away 90%,
Perhaps you should read this article about that very topic
http://nogoofyzone.wordpress.com/2008/03/24/rick-and-kay-warren-and-their-acts-of-mercy-foundation/
Peace
For those supporters of Rick Warren let Christ be the baseline by which we determine if someone is preaching as Jesus preached:
Mat 4:17 From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar 1:15 and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel.
Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Act 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? (38) And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For those of you who want to say Rick is preaching the gosepl then answer this one questions - where is the message of REPENTANCE!????
Is Pastor Warren not doing what Jesus said to do? John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Also what about Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. My dear friends there are many ways to serve our Lord and do as He told us to do.
One of the main criticisms about Mr. Warren is that he doesn’t proclaim the Biblical gospel – which is by definition a false gospel (Galatians 1). This is of the utmost importance. False gospel, false conversion. So instead of attacking those who legitimately address this grave issue, prove them wrong.
This is an OPEN CHALLENGE to ANYONE:
Provide a link or other documentation where Mr. Warren has proclaimed the clear and unambiguous Biblical gospel to a crowd of unbelievers.
Examples of words used in the clear and unambiguous presentation of the Biblical gospel: holiness, sin, judgment, sacrifice, cross, blood, Jesus, atonement, repent, believe, salvation, redeem, justify…
Examples of a crowd of unbelievers: United Nations Interfaith Prayer Breakfast, Jewish Synagogue, Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, US Congress, TED Conference, Davos World Economic Forum, Council of Foreign Relations, articles written in Ladies Home Journal, Purpose Driven Life book, 2007 Christmas Message to all Wal-Mart and Sam’s Stores (all of which Mr. Warren has spoken or written)…
Thank you.
Who did Jesus associate with??? Sinners, tax collectors etc. !!! Why is Rick Warren associating with them is a more appropriate question. If we rid ourselves of associating with sinners, we would hardly be able to look even ourselves in the mirror.
All of you Rick Warren apologists obviously are suffering from Kool-Aid poisoning, because you didn't read the clear objections which were stated by the commentors you were so quick to gainsay. As far as giving away 90 percent of income, good works are as filthy rags without Christ, and I'm not so sure that Mr. Warren and he are all that well acquainted.
I think we christian “theologian” often spending too much energy on shooting down other christian and pastor. Please don’t criticize a pastor a false prophet just because one of his books didn’t "emphasis" the complete message of the Gospel. (It’s all depended on what kind of book and topic they are emphasis about.)
And how would he know that his book would sell? Please be a bit cautious in “condemning/criticizing” rich people now. Since GOD allowed them to be rich. Who knows "Why" GOD chooses to let him have such a level of financial wealth, being a megastar pastor and not just a forceful “everyone gets the same”?
Jesus said “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit.” (Luke6: 43-44) So far I only see Pastor Rick did lots of good works in glorifying Jesus name. So brothers sisters, let us learn to be humble and appreciate of what people did rather then throwing eggs. :)
"Provide a link or other documentation where Mr. Warren has proclaimed the clear and unambiguous Biblical gospel to a crowd of unbelievers."
Think you might be asking for the impossible...
"Everything I have heard or read against him has been without substance"
Well then you haven't read very much or you are believing what you want to believe. Rick Warren says one thing to one crowd, another thing to another, and never EVER preaches the true gospel of Jesus Christ, exhorting sinners to repent and turn to Christ. He blatantly misuses scripture CONSTANTLY, as he once again did in this forum, to propel his own ideas and make them sound Biblical when they are not. Those who oppose him are doing so Biblically, marking him as the false prophet that he is, as he is leading many down the wide road to hell with his social gospel and different jesus. He blatantly disobeys II Corinthians 6:14 that commands not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers - yet he continually allies with government officials, groups, and even other religions to further his own mission, which is NOT God's mission. Rick Warren's god is not the God of the Bible as revealed in scripture, and THAT is the substance of why Rick Warren is a false teacher and should be rejected by TRUE believers. His unholy alliances with other religions, the UN, the Council on Foreign relations, and all the other groups that he panders to show his true colors to anyone who has eyes to see and ears to hear. I hope that those of you who defend Warren will come to recognize who Warren really is through the lens of scripture. I John 4:5 speaks of men like Warren who will be loved by the world because they are of the world. Jesus was rejected and crucified by the world, and he said we would too. Warren is lauded and praised by politicians, media, even other religions. Jesus came not to bring peace but a sword. Warren's goal is world peace and he has no regard for converting those in other religions (which you will hear in the other half of his speeches to select other groups). The point is, those who defend Warren do not know the scriptures otherwise they would see the truth. Warren is a liar, a false prophet, and a man-pleaser.
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." -Romans 16:17-18
i wonder how many of you would keep only 10% of your money and give away 90%, and drive the same old truck and live in the same old house even though you just made gazillions of dollars off a book. you people seem to condemn everyone, look at the plank of wood in your own eye, i cant stand this self righteousness, we all fall short of the Glory of God, and i think he's setting a good example to other megachurch pastors who drive around in bentleys and have million dollar homes and private jets and tell people they will get out of debt by sowing more seed. i think he is being a man of integrity. thanks for the example pastor warren
.
This is an OPEN CHALLENGE to anyone…
Provide a link or other documentation where Mr. Warren has proclaimed the clear and unambiguous Biblical gospel to a crowd of unbelievers.
Examples of words used in the clear and unambiguous presentation of the Biblical gospel: holiness, sin, judgment, sacrifice, cross, blood, Jesus, atonement, repent, believe, salvation, redeem, justify…
Examples of a crowd of unbelievers: United Nations Interfaith Prayer Breakfast, Jewish Synagogue, Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, US Congress, TED Conference, Davos World Economic Forum, Council of Foreign Relations, articles written in Ladies Home Journal, 2007 Christmas Message to all Wal-Mart and Sam’s Stores (all of which Mr. Warren has spoken or written)…
Thanks.
"“I don’t want anybody doubting why I do what I do,” Warren explained. “I know with this book God has put me under the spotlight and I didn’t want anyone doubting why I do what I do,” he said, noting his main goal in life is to simply save one more soul."
doesnt joel osteen say the same thing?
"But after reading the Bible about King Solomon asking God to make him famous so he could help the oppressed and those without influence" - i cant recall where in the bible Solomon asked for fame. can anyone help me here? isnt it the exact opposite, because solomon didnt ask for fame,wealth that God was pleased and gave him more than just the wisdom he asked for.
I no longer trust Rick Warren because of who he associates with including Barrack Hussein Obama and other new age spiritualists such as Ken Blanchard. For all you R.W. lovers do some research about who this guy is doing business with these days.
"Megastar Pastor", is he like the Protestant Pope?
...Matthew 6:1-4
Identity, income, and influence...These alliterative ideals make for good oratory, but also reveal the heart of one who embraces the Social Gospel. Jesus identified with the common man, the poorest people on earth, and in His lifetime (on earth) registered limited influence! If we are to be like Jesus, we need to IDENTIFY ourselves as commissioned believers who share the True Gospel (salvation) with all people everywhere. We also must beware the lure of INCOME that will make productive service in the kingdom very difficult. We definitely must use our relationship with Jesus to INFLUENCE as many people as we can for as long as we draw a breath to believe in Jesus Christ, our Lord and God! Amen?
I know a number of brothers that speak against Rick Warren. None of which have met him, or really have a case against him. Everything I have heard or read against him has been without substance, and I think that is really weak. The negative commentators above should be ashamed. If you have a case, lets hear it. Otherwise you should repent, and grow up.
I wonder what would Erasmo of Rotherdam think of this sermon? This is allegorizing to a such point that one has to ask, Well, how do you know, Rick, that it is so? Is this an interpretation of the text, or merely a sermon that had to have some textual basis so let's find something there...? I mean, the snake is also a symbol of Satan, so are we to draw any meaning from that analogy? I think that this sermon shows how far from the Scripture modern Evangelicalism is.
Preachers like John Hagee, Pat robertson, kenneth copeland, creflo dollar etc, could not hold a candle to this guy as far as the hell fire and brimstone bible thumping crowd that is so critical of him, that's nothing more than pure jealously, plain and simple!
These miracles were performed to show they were from God, not man. Moses was used by God. When God came to earth in human form through our Lord Jesus, He performed miracles to the nation of Israel to show them who He was. It has nothing to do with our strength but His strength through us. We are nothing without His power in us. The narrow gate is the only path, and Rick Warren is going down the wide one and taking millions down with him. Are you going to put your eternal soul on the line by going by what Rick says or what the bible says?
This man takes a lot of hits from many. I am not sure if I had the kind of success he has had I would handle it as well. I pray he continues to use his influence and further the Gospel of Christ.