Non-Christian critics are accusing evangelicals of taking over the upcoming National Day of Prayer, which they complain excludes faithfuls from other religions.
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Evangelicals 'Hijacked' Day of Prayer, Critics Accuse
By
Jennifer Riley
Christian Post Reporter
Fri, Apr. 25 2008 04:33 PM EDT
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Comments
Now for the commandments. They are far different from any other form of "morality" before them. It just says "thou shalt not" as an authoritative statement. They don't define moral application. They are a statement of what is moral.
Hope this helps....
As for evolution.... Neither evolution nor creation is science in and of itself. Neither can be recreated in a controlled environment over and over and observed. Creation starts with the statement that God created and leaves us to believe or not believe. Evolution uses 'facts' many of which have been disproved and dismissed and wants us to believe it anyway.
One of my favorite facts I ran across is the math model for the burning/shrinking of the sun. If you reverse it to watch the sun grow in size as it goes back in time, it gets too big for the timeline in evolution theory. Many scientific facts cancel out eveolution theory.
I quite enjoy the life of helping people and lose nothing by being a Christian. I have peace of mind and soul. I voluteer with familes of special needs children helping them get the education they need under IDEA and 504. Jesus gave the example of loving your neighbor as yourself and I find satisfaction in that. I lose nothing by being a Christian.
There was a song in the 70s called "if heaven was never promised to me". It's about the fact that life being a Christian is more satisfying to Christians than their lives were before. I'm sure it's foolishness to you but it works for me.
Many people don't believe the speed limit is to be taken literally.... Let's start with the taking the Bible literally. My wife is a nurse (and a good one). She has lots of books that, when I look at them, can't imagine some of the stuff being taken literally. The problem is with me and not the books. They do that stuff everyday!
One thing that is not understood about the Bible is it details mans failing to be righteous on our own. Try as they might, there was no righteousness in man in the Old Testament. The only mention of such was stuff that was "counted as righteousness" by God.
Have you ever read Evidence That Demands a Verdict (Parts I & II)? It is a listing of data and arguements compiled by an athiest who was a Berkley in the 60's by the name of Josh McDowell. He set out to prove the Bible full of hypocracy, errors and lies. He's an Christian evangelist now....
The point is simple. We choose what we are willing to examine and believe. The New Testament is quite clear in many places about knowing what you believe and being willing to give an account for the hope that is in you. In fact, it says to study to show yourself approved onto God. This in the King James language indicates you are to study to show to yourself that you are approved by God (through Christ). Clearly, the Bible does not suggest blind faith. I've studied the written works of Josh McDowell and Fransis Sheafer. I believe you will find the answers to this question of yours there.
I was not endorsing Hammurabi's code i was merely proving that there were laws against killing and stealing before the ten commandments. Are people not stoned in the bible? Does god not take out his anger on people in the old testament? The bible is full of hypocrisies. I am interested though, what is your answer to evolution? And how can you feel comfortable quoting the bible when it clearly isn't meant to be taken literally. Considering it claims that god created people when evolution has proved otherwise, and the fact that so many texts were destroyed by a human, who is fallible, how can you put so much faith in it?
Let's look at Hammurabi's code a bit. Here's number 2:
"2. If any one bring an accusation against a man, and the accused go to the river and leap into the river, if he sink in the river his accuser shall take possession of his house. But if the river prove that the accused is not guilty, and he escape unhurt, then he who had brought the accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall take possession of the house that had belonged to his accuser."
You call this morality? Sounds like the witch trials to me!!! I prefer the 10 commandments.
GodIsSantaForAdults. Wow! I'm glad to see you agree with the Bible! There are multiple passages that talk about being born with a sense of right and wrong. It's call conscience. Yet, the "what's right for you may not be right for me" attitude that says the Bible is wrong firmly disagrees with the concept of being born with a sense of right and wrong. The Bible also talks about the conscience being damaged to the point where it doesn't work right. It results in everyone doing "what was right in their own eyes".
My point is our founding fathers based much of our foundational law on the 10 commandments. The 10 Commandments were a cornerstone document for much of the western world. It's just history. Therefore, we should get rid of them because they are based on the Bible. It's the same attitude that makes the ACLU want to remove them from public property. It's simply following the actions of the ACLU to the conclusion. It's not about common sense to the ACLU. There are many things in our history that I disagree with but I don't want to erase them from our history simply because those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it (which also comes from a Bible verse!).
As for historical perspective...the 10 Commandments are considered to be the earliest known such documents of right and wrong. Again, it's just a history thing. The bottom line is people want to blame Jesus for things because they don't want the Gospel to be true. In doing so they target Christians like no other religion on the planet. Still, they know little if anything about the faith. It's about returning to the relationship we had with God when Adam was in the garden.
Christianity is a relationship and not a religion. The Christian "religion" is centered around man and not Christ. There is a difference. This is why Christians wanted a National Day of Prayer and started it. It was based on a Bible verse of people calling on him to heal their land. This is why it isn't a law.
Daniel Paul, the 10 commandments are NOT part of our law. We have religious freedom, that is the opposite of the first commandment. The commandments you are referring to like not killing and stealing are common sense. People have known that was wrong long before the bible, we are born with a sense of what is right and wrong. If you don't believe me that the bible wasn't the first to say it, just look at Babylonian law (Hammurabi's code) which punishes murderers and thieves. This was written hundreds of years before the ten commandments. Stop trying to take credit for basic morality. Morality is not exclusive to christianity.
No doubt there are situations where the majority is wrong. "Everyone's doing it" doesn't make it right. However, should another religious group wish to have a National Day of Prayer rally, commttee or other I'm quite sure there would be no objection to say "The Jewish National Day of Prayer Committee" or such practicing their diversity in our culture.
It is the humanists (claimeing to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or other) who do not tolerate Christianity and complain when we do something openly Christian. There is even complaining about the use of Christian morals. I say either in or out. Either hot or cold. If you don't like the Bible then take the 10 commandments out of our law. The Bible was the first to say "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal". So, let's take those out if we as a society are really opposed to the Bible! Either it's right or it's not. This "hokey pokey" way of thinking is just not rational.
The National Day of Prayer has always been observed by Christians, and anyone else who wants to participate. For those who do not want to pray to Jesus Christ, The Father or The Holy Spirit, they can choose not to, but Christians also have a right to set aside a day or a month and call on all other CHRISTIANS and non, as they choose, to pray to our God to help our Nation and to acknowledge that HE is GOD!!
Compromise is NOT what built America, GOD built America and all the people that HE allowed to come to this Nation. ACLU and all the other non-Christian groups do not take away the facts as GOD has established them.
It is a DAY of PRAYER and even here, Christians are being targeted for simply wanting to pray for the good of our Nation, that we want GOD to come and heal our land!
If you don't believe in GOD and you don't want to pray, it's OKAY!!!! Don't pray and don't observe the day...just go on with your life...as you are now doing!!!
It's really not that hard....I just think it's hysterical that when Christians are discriminated against, I do not see ACLU coming to our defense, but that is Okay as JESUS CHRIST is our DEFENDER!!!
Christians are not arrogantly blind...we honor GOD as Almighty GOD, which is His due, and we will obey GOD rather than men!
dongard: You look at our Nation and you want to know about decency, with all the SIN so prevalent in our nation, the violence, etc....we're praying for God to bring our Nation back to righteousness!
Praise You Almighty God, it is about you Lord God, not about us!
perhaps we should all consider for a moment the words of the dean of modern american conservatism
We are so concerned to flatter the majority that we lose sight of how very often it is necessary, in order to preserve freedom for the minority, let alone for the individual, to face that majority down.
BUCKLEY, JR., WILLIAM F. quoted in National Review, speech to International Conservative Congress, November 1, 1997
The USA is a democratic republic. It is a merger of the two. A republic is "a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who is modern times is usu. a president." Democracy is "a government of the people; esp. rule of the majority; a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation".
Yep, sounds like us. This is why our constitution starts with "We the People". Besides, if we followed only the rules of a republic there would be no arguement the President could handle the day of prayer any way he wanted to. It is only from the principles of democracy that allow a question at all!
Let the pagan call out to their "god of self." We will call upon the name of the Lord who made Heaven and Earth. Our God is the Living God. Our God is the One who answers by fire. He alone is Just and Holy. There is no other. JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!!!
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
dongard,
I believe that Daniel was talking about the National day of Prayer committee.
daniel paul
At the close of the Constitutional Convention, a woman asked Benjamin Franklin what type of government the Constitution was bringing into existence. Franklin replied, “A republic, if you can keep it.”
ancient athens was a democracy. the US is not and your analysis of our government would come as a sad surprise to our founding fathers. i suggest you revisit the federalist papers and especially madison and monroe on the rights and duties of the majority in a "republic."
dongard... I have found each and every person is arrogantly blind. The difference is in how they display it! This is simply a general statement of observation. :-)
Now, to the national day of prayer committee. This is a democracy...majority rule. The fact is most of the USA claims to be Christian, therefore math just wins out. Of course the majority of people on the national day of prayer committee are Christian. Just the same, there is nothing stopping another group from forming a committee focused on their religious beliefs.
It's demographics and democracy. Nothing more.
what happened on the first National Day of Prayer?
I think the problem is a lot of people want to treat this as some multicultural event and it's not.
In response to dongard: I know of no where that the National Day of Prayer Committee is an official entity that alone is allowed to decide what will or will not occur on the National Day of Prayer, it is neither government supported or funded and is simply a group of evangelicals who are willing to support it with their monies, time, energies, and talent. They have no authority to dictate to communities what or what will not occur on the National Day of Prayer. So if these groups who are calling foul were really interested in having events that are not focused primarily on Christian beliefs they would and have the freedom to do something about it, but as I said in my first comment it appears they're more interested in condemning Christians rather than celebrating the National Day of Prayer.
once again the comments on this story prove how arrogantly blind christians can be. a national day of prayer is set up. a particular sect of christianity uses its influence to assume control of the committee. local events are organized to promote that sect's beliefs. then the committee and its local supports claim that anyone can join their organized events (celebrating their god their way) and if you don't like it then of course organize your own ( but the national committee running the national day of prayer won't approve) come on people where is your sense of decency?
Compromise is what built the USA. No one has ask anyone to comprise their faith Christians in the USA would become as tyrannical as any radical Muslim if we give the an inch. What I am saying? the have been that many times in the past. Denying others what is their right because of their faith or lack of it.
A point was missed... The National Day of Prayer is not a law in that sense of the word. It is not something that is forced or taxed for any more than Thanksgiving. Public property is used for many things I find offensive but there is no law against them.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
According to Websters 9th Collegiate Dictionary: "Established Church: n (1600) : a church recognized by law as the official church of the nation and supported by civil authority."
Our founding fathers took it one more step to say religion as they didn't want another religion being the "established religion" of the nation just because they have temples or other names for their places of worship or religious gathering. In any event, a National Day of Prayer does not in any way give civil authority to a religion. It only provides recognition of our nations need to seek the face of the Lord.
As long as the Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached from our church pulpits, And as long as the trueth of that Gospel is declared in this United States Of America, Then and only then will this Nation stand.
But alas, Many of our pulpits no longer Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And our Nation no longer desires to hear Thus saith the Lord.
Just a week ago, In a church serviice, A messaage was given by the Holy Spirit that said, " America is done " Set your house in order.
What is left of the True Church must declare the Truth in love. And it must be done NOW.
Our Nation is under attack by those who claim a false gospel, By those who declare a false message.
As a Nation we are in great danger.
What does Genuine Christanity have in common with islam,? or with those who preach mary is co-redeemer wih Christ.
What does Genuine Christanity have in common with those who declare another way of Salvation other than the way laid out in the Bible.?
Will the real Church please stand up, Before it is to late, Declare the Truth of God's Word.
Many won't like it. Many will say you are a hater, a destroyer of unity. So be it, Preach the Word in Jesus Name. Jesus said, they hated me, They will hate you also.
Compromise is killing the Church, and it will kill our Nation.
The clause is to keep us from being a one denomination and not to separate one's belief from govt. Your beliefs are held by something. It's either based on some sort of belief system or some sort of humanistic belief system. No matter what the subject you select, you can't separate your beliefs from ANYTHING unless you do not keep core beliefs.
I agree, you as an individual have the freedom to practice your religion as stated in the First Amendment. However, religion as stated in the First Amendment, cannot be part of government. Nothing stops you from practicing your religion, you can go to the church of your choice, you can go to a public square and proclaim your beliefs to all that will listen. On private property you can erect whatever religious symbols and structures that you want. You and religious organizations are however prohibited from imposing your beliefs on others using the government, the courts or public schools, as stated in First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion......"
I wish we could edit our posts. I flagged me to be able to edit.
scitsonga,
"... no law respecting the establishment of religion or free exercise of thereof..."
This does not prevent government from recognizing what is. God has created all men equal. This does not establish religion - itm erely recognizes what is. To say that religion has to stay out of government is to doom our country to destruction - from the inside. Without a strong moral compass, people become self-centered and often move to utilitarian views of life, liberty, and happiness - rather than those which look out for everyone. And yes, some religions can provide a moral compass - God has created certain laws governing human interaction that many religions seem to have discovered. But I've studied many religions and none provide the moral compass that a historical-contextual-literal view of the Bible can provide. Anything short of that sort of view opens society up to destruction (whih I think this country is on its way toward).
The goernment must stay out of the exercise of religion - this is what the constitution upholds, and something with which I agree. But the exercise of religion must not stay out of the exercise of the government - for the constituion does not say such a thing. The majority of the founding fathers would have thought such an idea to be ludicrous.
I believe the ACLU is a strongly leftist organization that wants to destroy this country and everything upon (and for) which it was created. While this might not be true for the rank and file, the higher ups in that organization seem to be socialists and anti-Christian. Certainly my reading of the history and founding of the organization make me believe this. I would be ashamed to call myself a member of the ACLU.
dongard,
If one believes that there is only one God, then to pray to anything else is at best hypocritical. At worst, it is against what the Bible teaches and will lead to a spiritual (if not physical) death. It is not crying when people complain about being hated - it is recognition of fact. If I am hated because God said there is only one God and that we are not to pray to anything else, then so be it. If I am hated because God said that HE provided a way for me (and anyone else who believes) to be with Him and that way is through faith in the substitionary death of His Son on the Cross, then so be it. For me to not be grateful and proclaim this to everyone would be me not loving God and not loving the people God created. If I see someone about to step off a cliff, then I at minimum have to warn them, and if possible actually stop them from killing themselves. This is love. This is the life God has asked us to live. Sometimes we do it, sometimes we don't.l sometimes we do it well and consistently, sometimes not. WE're not perfect, but we do love the God who first loved us.
Last time I checked the national day of prayer wasn't a legal obligation. The national day of prayer was put into place to pray for our nation. Our money says "in God we trust" so, wouldn't it be nice if (just once in a while) we thanked Him and sought His face?
No one is stopping other groups from having their religions represented. However, every elected person has the right to practice their religious beliefs in this type of situation. I don't expect Jews or Muslims to practice Christianity on the National Day of Prayer. Neither would I expect a Christian to practice another religion just because they are elected.
Those who are involved in the National Day of Prayer do so in accordance with their religious beliefs and it is wrong for the Anti Christ Liberties Union to try to force their religious beliefs on the rest of us. Each American (elected or not) has the right to practice what they believe WITHOUT being interfered with by law. Even on public property? Yep! It's called equal access.
The National Day of Prayer is simply a day when religious people are reminded to pray for our country.
MuggleBorn "How about keeping Congress out of my beliefs; respecting the establishment of religion, "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" ... DON'T PROHIBIT ME FROM PREACHING THE GOSPEL when and where I choose. "
I agree, you as an individual have the freedom to practice your religion as stated in the First Amendment. However, religion as stated in the First Amendment, cannot be part of government. Nothing stops you from practicing your religion, you can go to the church of your choice, you can go to a public square and proclaim your beliefs to all that will listen. On private property you can erect whatever religious symbols and structures that you want. You and religious organizations are however prohibited from imposing your beliefs on others using the government, the courts or public schools, as stated in First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion......"
flagged myself for typo
"But Becky Armstrong, a spokeswoman for the National Day of Prayer Task Force, said the same application for coordinators has been “used for years,” according to RNS."
Sounds like a little extra hype that happens during a Presidential election season.
Everybody's getting iin the ring.....
"But Becky Armstrong, a spokeswoman for the National Day of Prayer Task Force, said the same application for coordinators has been “used for years,” according to RNS."
Sounds like a little extra hype that happens during a Presidential election season.
Everybody's getting iin the ring.....
"But Becky Armstrong, a spokeswoman for the National Day of Prayer Task Force, said the same application for coordinators has been “used for years,” according to RNS."
Sounds like a little extra hype that happens during a Presidential election season.
Everybody's getting iin the ring.....
truthfulwitness "Any praryer that is not prayed to the true and living God in the name of His son Jesus is a waste of time. "
thats your belief, not everyone believes that, that why we must keep religion out of government, the courts and public shools.
crunch "ACLU which REALLY isn't interested in law or justice"
actually as a member of the ACLU, I can tell you it's is all about law and justice and defender of the US Constitution.
I think we americans should also had some national repentance effort into this day of prayer along with the pslam 28:7 stuff, just putting this thought out there.
Continue with debate folks :)
"I believe that the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of The Living God. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only One by which I can obtain salvation and have an ongoing relationship with God."
Why would any Christian deny these biblical truths? This ecumenical movement is surely convoluting the gospel and the sad thing is most Christians are not even aware of it.
But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer – 1Peter 4:7.
truthfulwitness,
Where did you hear that Ravi was asked that?
FullGospel,
Sounds like you are taking the modern Catholic view of including EVERYONE, regardless of belief, or lack thereof. I have no problem having dialogue and sharing love with others, but to pray and worship with them is just not right.
"Applicants to be official coordinators are asked to indicate if they believe in a statement that includes: "I believe that the Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of The Living God. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only One by which I can obtain salvation and have an ongoing relationship with God."
Well, my friends, we can all see that this was written by evangelical protestants and wouldn't fit Jewish beliefs (or any other, for that matter).
Why not take a different approach? Let's build on what we have in common (God), and getting together with those of other faiths, let's let the love of Jesus shine through so that they say "there's something different about you I don't see in my faith..." Behold, Jesus evangelizes another one for the kingdom of heaven through us.
Fighting over prayer? It is ridiculous. Why can't we just worship the Creator together? Of course, Jesus was present at creation and nothing that is made is made without HIm. He upholds all things by the word of his power. If Wiccans want to pray to the Goddess, or Muslims want to pray to the moon god, Allah, or Hindus want to pray to whoever they pray to, none of which can see or speak or hear, then let them organize their own ecumenical thing.......
Complete and utter nonsense! Ravi Zacharias was asked not to pray in the name of Jesus so as not to offend the pagans. Any praryer that is not prayed to the true and living God in the name of His son Jesus is a waste of time.