A children's story about a family of penguins with two fathers once again tops the list of library books the public objects to the most.
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Gay Penguin Tale Tops List of 'Challenged' Books
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Hillel Italie
Associated Press Writer
Tue, May. 06 2008 05:46 PM EDT
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Comments
Bmore,
"Clearly this won't work. I posted my ideas, yet people are hell-bent on tearing them apart."
Welcome to the world of internet debate. Don't take it too harshly though, try to find the good points of your opponents arguments, and try to find the garbage. Try to do this on an objective perspective and not from a subjective one. Defend your position, but only as far as it is defensible. And above all, try to remember that many of us (I won't speak for everyone) do love you and care about you, and we are not just trying to tear apart your arguments, but trying to challenge you and represent a "right" view of God and Christianity. By all means challenge us.
" I have a relationship with Christ that I will admit is unique, and it is my own, not to be condemned by anyone else."
Ultimately, this is what it boils down to. The only thing you need to do is be sure of the genuiness of your relationship, and make sure that you truly are following Christ as best as you possibly know how (this does not mean as best as you want, but as best as God has outlined from the Bible, and in your case, from Church tradition). Since you are a Catholic, I would strongly suggest asking your Priest about any issues you have. Also a rigorous study of the Bible is always a good thing.
God Bless,
Chris
Bmore, we're not tearing apart your ideas. We are presenting clear arguements of why they aren't either completely thought out, incomplete and/or biased. When you present an arguement you better be prepared for the other side as well.
As far as your relationship with Christ, it is very true that we need not condemn you for that. Only God knows your true judgement. However, from scripture what understand that God does not like homosexuality and so we are trying to help you reach eternal salvation. If you get in that's awesome, but if not that deeply sadens me because we, through our love for you, tried to help you recieve the greatest gift of all. It's not our fault if you choose to disregard it, afterall it is your choice.
1 Corinthians 3:1-15
But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.
Paul shows us here that anyone who is saved can get into heaven. However, you must ask yourself if you are truely saved and if you are the one receiving the reward or the one barely getting through. Personally I would rather do what God wants, as is written in His word, than what I choose to do or by what others interpret is right.
1 Corinthains 1:19
As the Scriptures say, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent.”
Clearly this won't work. I posted my ideas, yet people are hell-bent on tearing them apart. I have given well formed ideas, yet people are refusing to see that. If you have a problem with what the APA said, take it up with them. If you have a problem with the Catholic Church, take it up with them. I have a relationship with Christ that I will admit is unique, and it is my own, not to be condemned by anyone else.
FOR SHUCKS: I posted on this earlier. Actually what gays consider unsuiccessful conversion is by all acounts successful It depends on whos defining the term. Exodus recently came under a 4 year study. They follwed 100 participants. here is what they found... 24-30% of those they monitored successfully transitioned into the heterosexual lifestyle... Now granted that is 1 in 4 to 1 in 3... but if I had cancer and the odds of treatment were the same..Id jump at it...
MIlitant gays will label any success rate as a failure if it doesnt encompass a massive success rate of 80, 90 or 100%
Given that the gay community says that they are "born" gay..then what explains a success rate of 24-30%.. ?.. PS both the APA and genome program both state it is more environmental and cognitive.. the genome program says unequivocally that being gay is not genetic...
BmoreTeacher said:
"I find it particularly interesting what they say about homosexuality not being a choice and the lack of evidence for conversion therapy."
Okay but what are the conversion rates of any kind of addict. Drug users go into rehab time and time again. Alcoholics are constantly quiting and then going back. Porn addictions are extremely hard to rid oneself from. Even smokers have a hard enough time quiting their habit.
So please explain to me why you would think that having made up one's mind about their orientation would be any easier to stop? Those that are addicted have a hard time quitting regardless! I can't remember the scripture off-hand, if someone else does please post it, but the bible tells that anything put before God is a sin. In other words, anything that you crave more than Him is a sin; anything that you would put first before God is a sin. Addiction is one of those things, you have to have it. Instead we should replace that with having to have God and after a while the addiction will leave us because our focus is on something greater.
The reason why most of these conversion therapy schools don't work is because the person there is more interested in satisfying his or her own needs than filling that gap with God. Once that person finally realizes that and focuses on Him he or she can finally repent their sin.
So I ask again, what are the conversion rates for homosexuality compared to those of alcoholism, porn addiction, smoking, and drug use? I bet you'll see a close resemblance!
NARTH reported on March 8, 2007:
Francis S. Collins, one of the world's leading scientists who works at the cutting edge of DNA research, concluded that "there is an inescapable component of heritability to many human behavioral traits." However, he adds, "for virtually none of them, is heredity ever close to predictive."
In reviewing the heritability (i.e., influence of genetic factors) on personality traits, Dr. Collins referenced the research of Bochard and McGue for the estimated percentage of these traits that can be ascribed to heredity.
The heritability estimates for personality traits were varied: General Cognitive Ability (50%), Extroversion (54%), Agreeableness (42%), Conscientiousness (49%), Neuroticism (48%), Openness (57%), Aggression (38%) and Traditionalism (54%).
with identical twins, that heritability is not to be confused as inevitability.
As Dr. Collins would agree, environment can influence gene expression, and free will determines the response to whatever predispositions might be present.
There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation;
* Theories are not facts
most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of
* Science doesnt rely on consensus.. Consensus is the opposite of scientific fact
a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive
* Environmental and Cognitive are the 2 primary suspected causes.
*Cognitive means the ability to be aware and choose
and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality.
* Disavowed by the Genome 2007 Study
* Homosexuality is not hardwired," concludes head of the Human Genome Project...
In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation
* They don't know
and the reasons may be different for different people.
* They really dont know
Finally in all this, the report from the APA makes the statement that given everything they dont know, but suspect its both environmental and cogntivie that orientation is not a choice...
It is a ludicrous and arrogant statment given what they think the causes of.
FInally..I have said exactly what the APA said.. it is determined primarily by environment and choice.
ifeelfine,
You are willfully ignoring my posts.
"You are actually changing doctrine so as to believe the Bible is inerrent."
Where and how? You clearly have disregarded my entire argument.
"Thus, you don't take the Bible literally."
Well considering I do not do that, I suppose your "if then" statement is wrong. I have never said that the versuses discussing slavery are wrong, innaccurate, or for any other reason should not be there. Again, this is being willfully ignorant (no offense).
"I do that as well, Bmore does that too and he did that. He believes that those scriptures (as do I) are interpretted incorrectly by many Christians."
This is not what Bmore said, Bmore said that some passages in the Bible are innaccurate. You seem to be only hearing what you want to hear.
"I've stated many times how that is so and how the Bible is inerrent (but not literal)."
I have never heard you say the Bible is inerrant, but I will take your word for it. In any case, if the Bible is inerrant, but only with the right interpretation, which just so happens to contradict a great deal of what the Bible says, then the Bible is not inerrant, rather some "interpretation" is. Are you infallible? If not, then you are going to have to provide biblical support for why the Bible does not mean what it says. Regarding 1) Slavery and 2) Homosexuality. (The two are not in the same category either)
"Prove it isn't so."
Go back and read my posts. And you prove it is.
Bmore,
You said, "Catholicism claims they have the ultimate Truth about the passage "Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you shall not have life within you." For Catholics, there is no other question or interpretation, despite the fact you may claim there is."
But you are not mentioning that the RCC claims itself as the sole "definer" of what the absolute truth is, in regard to spiritual manners. They are not going on a Sola Scripture argument, they are going on a, "My interpretation only" argument. If you claim divine infallibility for yourself, then you can start comparing yourself to the RCC.
"I think that is the same viewpoint as what I have."
So you are claiming infallibility?
"There most certainly are interpretations, for each and every Bible verse you claim condemns homosexuality, that refute what you are saying."
Please provide versus.
"You claim this is wrong with as much fury as a Catholic would about the Eucharist. Who is to say you have the Truth and I don't, or that I have the Truth and you don't?"
The law of contradiction. Either you have the truth and I don't, or I do and you don't. It is literally impossible that we both do. Also, the RCC claims they have the fullness of truth and Protestants don't.
"Fact of the matter is, if you believe something in the Bible that strongly, that is great for you, but there will always be people who feel you are wrong."
Can you please provide the argument for why you feel I am wrong? "Bmore says so" is not an argument, unfortunately. (Unless you are going to claim that infallibility)
"I am not calling you a sinner for not believing in the Eucharist in the same way I do. If you are wrong, it is not for me to judge you."
Strange, because the RCC does claim it is a sin not to take part in the Eucharist, within the Catholic Church. I think you are just picking and choosing what you believe on a personal basis.
"Truth is something that no one will have in its entirety until we are standing before Jesus."
I would doubt that we would have truth in its entirety even then, if we did we would have to be God. Nonetheless, even if the answer is not clear (but it is) that still doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and say, "All is lost, just believe what you want to believe and do what you want to do!" To do so is "spiritually suicidal" at best.
BALMORE POST:
The reason young men and women are promiscuous is because they have a shattered image. Girls have objectified and in todays MYV culture and men like Bill CLinton who made oral sex something of an acceptable practice is why the STD rate is up.
God doesnt make junk and young people are no longer connected to their truly divine image. As for your other statments.. you blame everyone else in society for your behavior.. notice I didnt say orientation.. I said your acting out what as a Christian you should be putting off.
Okay Passages in John:
Passage John 14:26:
26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
assage John 16:13:
13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Balmore how old are you? Neither of these passages have anything to do with homosexual behavior... I feel pity for you..
Let me say something... Given what you shared and all things being equal, if you came from a traditional family environment and can not find any environmental reason for your orientation then I can understand your frustration and anger..... but I will say this... and I do so with compassion..... there are "deviancies" in every species... but I would also challange you with this...
What Satan intends for evil God can use for good.. so hypothetically.. let's say Satan had a role in your orientation.... what if that is true because God has an even greater and higher purpose for your life but that by keeping you distracted through your orientation he renders you unable to be effectively used by God to your full potential?
Here is my challange for you... allow yourself to be sanctified for 60 days. In those 2 months allow God to direct you towards an effective ministry while remaining pure in thought and deed... see what happens
Chris333 said: "I have constantly explained my stance on slavery, without denying a single word in the Bible. Bmore both denied what was written in the Bible, claiming it is innaccurate, and then tried to make an argument based on the Bible. Thus undermining his argument."
You are actually changing doctrine so as to believe the Bible is inerrent. Thus, you don't take the Bible literally. I do that as well, Bmore does that too and he did that. He believes that those scriptures (as do I) are interpretted incorrectly by many Christians. I've stated many times how that is so and how the Bible is inerrent (but not literal). Prove it isn't so.
BmoreTeacher
Do you really care about what God's view is about homosexuality, the Eucharist, and other issues? Or do you only care about what man says God's Word teaches?
Jesus said that if your will is to do the will of God, then you will know whether the doctrine that is taught is of man or of God. (John 7:17).
Do you really want to know what God's position is on homosexuality, the Eucharist, abortion, and etc? If you do, then go to God and allow Him to teach you truth (John 14:26) and to guide you into it (John 16:13).
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html
This is where I get many of my views from Jar. Being a teacher, I don't have the time to go into each and every study, but you seem to have plenty of free time, so why don't you look into that. I find it particularly interesting what they say about homosexuality not being a choice and the lack of evidence for conversion therapy.
Someone responded to my question about the Eucharist, but I'm still not sure it was answered completely. Catholicism claims they have the ultimate Truth about the passage "Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you shall not have life within you." For Catholics, there is no other question or interpretation, despite the fact you may claim there is. I think that is the same viewpoint as what I have. There most certainly are interpretations, for each and every Bible verse you claim condemns homosexuality, that refute what you are saying. You claim this is wrong with as much fury as a Catholic would about the Eucharist. Who is to say you have the Truth and I don't, or that I have the Truth and you don't? Fact of the matter is, if you believe something in the Bible that strongly, that is great for you, but there will always be people who feel you are wrong. I am not calling you a sinner for not believing in the Eucharist in the same way I do. If you are wrong, it is not for me to judge you. Many people on here, in particular Jar, have been bashing gays up and down, and I take that very personally. It is not your place to condemn me, and while I am not saying everyone on here has been (Chris, I appreciate your willingness to dialogue) I feel like Jar just doesn't want to here it. If you don't, thats fine, but you do not have the right to attack my views and tell me I am flat out wrong, because Truth is something that no one will have in its entirety until we are standing before Jesus.
Jar, you do not post those for good, you post those for a very specific attack on me, which is in no way Christian. OK, so lets say (for the sake of you not whining) that what you have found is true. Because some gay couples have domestic violence or HIV, my relationship needs to be defined by them? Just being gay does not make you more likely to be a batterer. I think you take that information and don't think about why it is so. People who are violent have had past issues in their lives, such as being abused or witnessing it themselves. It as about power. I have grown up in a very healthy, normal household with my older brother, younger brother, younger sister, and both my parents. My mom was a stay at home mom, my dad enjoyed a good job close to home which allowed him to come to all my baseball games and swim meets, as well as practice with me on the weekends. By all accounts, I am a very normal person who happens to be gay, which is quite inexplicable. I do not see why Jar is so intent on making the entire homosexual community look bad just because of statistics without thinking why they are so. Gays are marginalized, and often face hatred and abuse by people outside of the community. I would suspect the rates of abuse are so high because that is their way of reclaiming power. Jar, did you see the articles that say 1 in 4 teenage girls now have an STD? That has nothing to do with the gay community. Yes, gays tend to be more promiscuous, but they learn that from watching mainstream society stereotype them. Luckily, my parents told me that just because I was gay didn't mean I should become promiscuous or play into the stereotype, and that support has kept me safe and clean, and now I am in a committed relationship.
CHRIS... I wish you God Speed. Baltimore is a professed homosexual public school teacher who is adopting a child. I agree with what you say again. I think a good starting point is point to John 1.. that Gods Word is infallible and inerrant. This is the crux of the entire discussion. If Christians dont agree on John 1 then false theologies and beliefs are always the result.. because it gives man the ability to pick truths from a menu.
Anyway.... BALMORE never gives specific citations.. he just throws out propaganda and never backs it up... so in order to have a civil discussion requires addressing all false hoods spiritual or secular..because the secular is a reflection of Gods word.. it documents clearly the consequences for sin..... so it glorifies His Truth.. that's why I use the CDC and DOJ reports
jar,
I understand your position and am in agreement with you, however, I am also willing to give Bmore a chance to defend his position.
"Chris I appreciate your desire to have a civil conversation with this man, but not at the cost of both denying what is common knowledge and not without challanging him to present the truth."
I did not deny what was common knowledge, I only gave Bmore the chance to present his case. I am fully aware of the CDC and other reports, however, I also know that this ultimately does not come down to what a secular organization says, it comes down to what God says. Thus the debate will be focused mostly on that, unless you want to make a secular argument. Also, I have challenged Bmore to give his "input" and defend his position. I have been thorough in noting the wholes in his arguments thus far. If at all possible I would rather have a strong but caring discussion, than an emotionally charged and irrational one.
with homosexuality, we have a scientific answer about the roots of homosexuality to back up my side of it."
CHRIS: This very well may be true, I am not a scientist so I will not comment too far on this (assuming you are). But either way, the Bible is clear. Science is not dealing with the heart of man and his relationship with God, the Bible is.
Chris I appreciate your desire to have a civil conversation with this man, but not at the cost of both denying what is common knowledge and not without challanging him to present the truth.
I have posted studies from the Dept of Justice showing the statistical facts on gay domestic violence which Bmore has at least 7 times deleted cause he didnt like the truth.
Then I posted the reports from the CDC showing the truth about those groups most affected by HIV and that was deleted as well
This guy makes up stuff hoping no one will check his lies.
BaltTeach is a teacher not a scientist. Challange him.. Okay Bmore teacher show us the scientifc proof. As far as I know the discoverer of the genome has gone on record as saying there is absolutely no identified gene related to being born at birht as a homosexual. They hgave tried now for 10 years to find one ands there isnt one.
The other flaw in his armor is that in Baptism we are called to die to the old man and put on the new. To pouut off the off man in our old ways. SO even if being homosexual is something he claims to be born with, then he is denying the power of the HOly SPirit to transform.
This was one of my posts that he deleted cause he didnt want to deal with it.
Bmore,
"If you choose to support one side or the other about the Eucharist being an essential aspect of following Christ, why can't I do the same for homosexuality?"
You can, the question is if it is practical to do so, or even possible (without tearing out some parts of the Bible). Regarding Eucharist there are two arguments, one based on the Bible, which is not clear, and the words "Do this in remembrance of Me" which would point towards symbolism. The other side is based on a tradition which has more or less always said it was real. With homosexuality, it is clearly called an abomination in the Old Testament, and in several places in the New is referred to as sinful. Despite some protests that that is only an "abuse homosexual relationship" there is very little support for this, in the text. Why wouldn't the Bible simply condemn all abusive relationships? Why single out homosexual relationships? Surely there is often abuse in both kinds of relationship.
"To me, we're comparing apples to apples"
Not exactly, nobody is trying to argue that taking the Eucharist is a sin, they are just debating the meaning of it.
"with homosexuality, we have a scientific answer about the roots of homosexuality to back up my side of it."
This very well may be true, I am not a scientist so I will not comment too far on this (assuming you are). But either way, the Bible is clear. Science is not dealing with the heart of man and his relationship with God, the Bible is.
"I truly don't understand the condemnations, they seem to completely ignore modern science and refuse to hear any dialogue from my point of view and life experience."
I won't speak for others, but I do not believe I ever "condemned" you, I try to leave that kind of judgment for God. Nonetheless, I will tell you what the Bible says, and my perspective, if you care to dialogue. And, while I do not want to discount your experience, or any science that possibly backs your argument up, we really need to deal with what the Bible says. I am not trying to say that you are not happy, or anything like that, I am trying to give you the best advice I can, while also defending my perspective.
" Any input I may offer is simply dismissed as me being a sinner refusing to turn from my ways."
I have done no such thing, rather it seems you haven't given much input, but where you have, I have addressed it. It seems you are assuming that I am going to condemn you before you speak. I am willing to dialogue about this, so long as we can keep a decent conversation and not devolve into name calling and mudslinging. I thank you for your civil post.
God Bless you, both ifeelfine and Bmore
Chris, the reason I brought that up is because there are arguments, which are legitimate, about homosexuality in the Bible that could go either way. If you choose to support one side or the other about the Eucharist being an essential aspect of following Christ, why can't I do the same for homosexuality? To me, we're comparing apples to apples, and with homosexuality, we have a scientific answer about the roots of homosexuality to back up my side of it. I truly don't understand the condemnations, they seem to completely ignore modern science and refuse to hear any dialogue from my point of view and life experience. Any input I may offer is simply dismissed as me being a sinner refusing to turn from my ways.
ifeelfine,
I forgot to mention. Expelled is not meant to be a scholarly work to prove ID. The producers of the movie explicitly stated this many times. The point of the movie is to expose a perceived injustice in the scientific community. Any "scholarly" aspects of the movie are there to aid this and not make a case for ID.
ifeelfine,
Thank you for the clarification. Still I must reject your accusation of my "hypocrisy". I have never said that the Bible is innaccurate in anyway. I have constantly explained my stance on slavery, without denying a single word in the Bible. Bmore both denied what was written in the Bible, claiming it is innaccurate, and then tried to make an argument based on the Bible. Thus undermining his argument.
Bmore,
The RCC may be right on the Real Presence, but it is not logically impossible for it to be wrong as well. You have to understand that Protestants do not go by what the "original" church says, they go by what the Bible says. There are arguments either way and I don't want to go through every point unless you push it.
Let's talk about Biblical interpretation folks. In the Bible, Jesus says "Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you shall not have life within you." Catholic scholars say this means in the Holy Eucharist, receiving the sacrament of Communion every Sunday. How can you justify that you are living in Christ if you do not attend Mass where Communion is served? Wouldn't that be an interpretation separate from what the original Church has proclaimed as Truth?
Chris: You're probably right, there is some scholarship in the film but not a ton There is more scholarship in FTBTMS than Expelled (I grudgingly saw it.) but that isn't saying much.
Chris: I wasn't calling you a hypocrite because you hadn't seen that movie, I called you a hypocrite because of this quote from you:
"You have 1) used the Bible to support your position and 2) undermined the credibility of the Bible. Thus you have undermined your argument. Your picking and choosing what to keep from the Bible is completely arbitrary and is based solely on your preferences, and not on scholarly criticism."
Sorry about that, I mixed up the posts.
ifeelfine,
"Chris: You are such a hypocrite. You haven't watched For the Bible Tells Me So and yet you pass judgment on it. I've seen it and it is a scholarly film."
What you have accused me of is not hypocrisy, hypocrisy is where you condemn something you yourself do. I am at best making a false accusation based on ignorance. But I don't think so. Perhaps you can help me and give me, since you have seen the movie, and tell me what kind of scholarly argument they make?
"Bmore did not undermine the authority of the Bible, he merely said that we all make determinations based on our interpretations of it and that is true. You admitted as such when you talk about slavery."
I was not talking about interpretation as trumping the Bible, rather I was talking about reading the Bible in context. You were the one who wanted to cut out parts of the Bible, or interpret them in a way as to make the Bible null and void. (This may be a case of hypocrisy)
Still, Bmore said, "for I feel what has been written in the Bible is innaccurate in many places (and not just about homosexuality)" This is saying the Bible cannot be trusted as it is innaccurate in many places. I have never heard a scholarly report saying such a thing, the Jesus Seminar is the closest thing, and I don't know if I could stop myself from laughing if someone said that the Jesus Seminar is scholarly. (No offense intended to anybody who likes the Jesus Seminar).
My guess is that "For the Bible Tells me so" is a documentary about the lives of several gay Christian families who claim that their lives are perfectly normal and loving. I am guessing it appeals to emotion more than to critical scholarship. These are just guesses based on the reviews I have looked at. You can help me out by giving me the argument presented in the film.
"The Bible Tels Me SO"... Okay I did look into it. For starters Bishop RObinson is a radical homosexual priest that has single handedly caused a global schism in the Episcopal Church. He is not a Biblical Scholar.. Neither is Desmund Tutu.. RIchard Gephardt is a liberal deomcrat and former Senator who was voted out of office and is a pro abortion advocate... None of the poeple in the video represent traditional Christianity.
That would be inacurrate .. About Biblical interpretation.. there is no personal interporetation. Man's desire to interpret it to suit his needs leads to all kinds of sinful behavior. Here is what SCripture says about interpretation:
1. "For Scripture is not of a private interpretation but given through the HOly SPirit".
Truth is not malliable.. however, it is how we apply the truth to our circumstances or if a truth is neccessarily applicable to our circumstances... For instance, if a man is gay, then while theBiblical truth about homosexuality is the same for all... that truth has an operating effect on the person practicing homosexual behavior.
Chris: You are such a hypocrite. You haven't watched For the Bible Tells Me So and yet you pass judgment on it. I've seen it and it is a scholarly film.
Bmore did not undermine the authority of the Bible, he merely said that we all make determinations based on our interpretations of it and that is true. You admitted as such when you talk about slavery.
BMORE Teacher has an issue with Christians who are strongly opposed to his lifestyle and exercise their opinions. He has been flagging any comment he disagrees with. The Crime Report I posted was deleted over 7 or 8 times by him. It shows statistical impartial data on the truth about Homosexual DOmestic VIolence
Bmore,
I looked into it, it appears it is some kind of "documentary" based on Gene Robinson and some others. This is not a scholarly work. Nonetheless, you openly admitted that parts of the Bible are not trustworthy. Can you give the reason why? Did early manuscripts not contain those verses? You still cannot say, "I base my argument on the Bible, but wait, the Bible cannot be trusted."
Wrong Chris...for the Bible tells me so is a documentary interviewing Biblical scholars, so my opinions are based on that. jar, I had an awesome family. Once again, you know nothing of my family or how I was raised. If you want to pretend I had one of the reasons you listed, go ahead, but you are lying and slandering my name, hence why I flagged that post. You could not psycho analyze me. Every family has issues, but you couldn't explain why only one out of my 4 siblings is gay. If we had a bad family, shouldn't all of us be gay? There simply isn't enough evidence to back your theories.
Bmore,
One problem. You said, "Tell me, when did Jesus ever speak about gays? Never! He spoke about love, and about God not knowing either male or female."
And then also said, "Watch "for the Bible tells me so" and you might see where I get my beliefs and why I am so firm that no, I am not deliberately turning away from God's word, for I feel what has been written in the Bible is innaccurate in many places (and not just about homosexuality.)"
You have 1) used the Bible to support your position and 2) undermined the credibility of the Bible. Thus you have undermined your argument. Your picking and choosing what to keep from the Bible is completely arbitrary and is based solely on your preferences, and not on scholarly criticism.
ShuckCreation: How convenient for you that you were able to interpret the Bible to be anti-gay. As for your wife, I don't know, maybe that she smokes illegal drugs would be enough to suggest she wouldn't provide a good environment for a child.
And what did you think telling this Christian board you're gay and adopting a kid was going to do here....? Im done.
BMORE quit flagging what you dont agree with. Im just going to continue to post.... get over your vanity.
Jar, you aren't a good Christian, because you care about are making comments that try to ignite a fire. I don't need to justify my beliefs to you because clearly you won't hear them. I don't want to teach your close minded kids either, not like you'd send them to my inner city school. I'm so glad you know exactly what is true, Jesus always loved those pompous Pharisees! I'm sure he's thrilled with the put downs your making!
Wow, so many questions to answer. First of all, I did not choose to be gay, that's just rediculous. I was never molested, both of my parents are amazing, supportive, and involved in my life, I played sports as a child, etc. No theory can explain why I am gay, and I certainly would not choose it given the homophobia and prejudice out there. As far as the Bible being the inerrant word of God, nope, sorry, I don't believe that. I do believe the Bible has a lot of God's truth, but humans are fallible and capable of writing inaccuracies into the Bible. Tell me, when did Jesus ever speak about gays? Never! He spoke about love, and about God not knowing either male or female. Watch "for the Bible tells me so" and you might see where I get my beliefs and why I am so firm that no, I am not deliberately turning away from God's word, for I feel what has been written in the Bible is innaccurate in many places (and not just about homosexuality.) Onto the subject of gays raising children. People you may think about as being gay are probably like Jack from Will and Grace: very flamboyant, unable to hold a steady job, unable to commit in a relationship. While there are many gays out there like that, there are even more straight couples. I am a teacher, my boyfriend works for a University, so we are both very educated and both have backgrounds working with youth. We will be AMAZING parents, and studies by the American Psychiatric and Psychological associations have found the same to be true. Children will be teased no matter what: their parents are gay, they're too fat, they wear glasses, they can't play sports, etc. My children will know they are loved and that their home life is supportive, and just like any child that has a supportive home life, they will learn to deal with bullying and find a good group of friends. Do some research, and the effects of leaving a child in the foster care system for a long period of time is extremely damaging, and sometimes catastrophic. Do I think every kid deserves a mother and father? Absolutely; however, that is not at all the case and in the US alone there are over 300,000 children waiting for a good home. My boyfriend and I would be able to give that to them. My sexual orientation isn't just some urge or a tendency, and don't try to tell me it is because lets face it, you're not gay! I am in love with my boyfriend, and our commitment to each other and to raising a child would be put to waste if we decided not to raise a child together in our home. Its nothing selfish, it is following in the footsteps of Christ to welcome a child so in need of love to our home.
Okay now that we're on the topic of children being raised by gay parents I think I'll share my story.
My wife of 2 years ended up leaving me for another woman. You may say that's what fuels my homophobia or prejudice, what have you, but 1) I'm neither of those and 2) I've disagreed with homosexuality far before I ever knew what the bible had to say about it. I love those that are homosexual, as Jesus loves them too. I do have homosexual friends, as well as athiest friends, and they know that I will always be there for them. They also understand my beliefs and that I am not afraid to discuss it with them. I always stay firm to my Christian roots!
Now on with the divorce hearing. My ex-wife and I had a child together which obviously we fought over in court. Aside from the fact that she had no religion, smoked weed, and lied under oath, my ex-wife also admitted that a homosexual environment was not a good place to raise a child. A homosexual herself claimed this. Needless to say I won custody of my daughter as I demonstrated a much stable environment for my her to live in.
So explain to me this: If someone is born gay why is my ex-wife struggling so much with this? Not only did she switch her orientation but she said it wasn't a good idea for a child to live in that type of lifestyle. The problem here is that she wasn't born this way. She made a choice, a choice to reject God, a choice to commit adultery, and a choice to live as a homosexual woman. She obviously knows in her heart what is right but refuses to listen. I pray every night that she'll repent her ways and turn back to Christ!
"My personal belief is that God did make me gay, and that I can't have my own children, but through adoption I can love and care for children".
So you don't believe in the Bible as God's inerrant Word? Scripture is clear about the abominable practice of homosexuality. I always find it amazing that there are people who want to claim Christ as Saviour, which truth comes from the Bible ... yet rejects all of the moral teachings.
It's not about your personal beliefs.. God doesn't allow us to pick and choose which part ofHis words are true. He lays it down and says... take it or leave it.... God said, a man and woman were made for each other...
So tell me where did you get that God made you gay.. if you can show me in His Word that God makes junk and makes His creation counter to his word and truth I'll reconsider...
For Bmore Teacher: It's not about being gay..It is about the prideful stiff neck that those in the homosexual community demonstrate. If you are a Christian, then sex outside of marriage is still sin.. and you are as guilty as any heterosexual who has sex outside of marriage. YOur views on our sexual lifestyle choices still leaves in you a willful state of rebellion before God's eyes.
As far as gay parents raising children.... let me remind you why the rest of the world in a large part hates America:
1. Because of culturally acceptable behaviors which the rest of the world finds abhorrent.
2. Because of selfish attitudes of the gay community which puts the welfare of the gay relationship before the needs of the child. And P.S. If you think that there arent major emotional impacts on children of gay parents your deceiving yourself and the gay-agenda community within the psychological community. If children of gay coouples dont have issues then why are schools like the ones in California trying th shove down the throats of traditional values families cirriculum directed at accepting the gay lifestyle? Because children of gay parents are being tormented because of what nature instills is not normal.
The theory of survival of the species dictates (if you are an evolutionist) that the deviant minority in any species in order to survive as a species must eradicate the weaker deviancy in order to progress....
For the atheist liberals: It's typical how you try to silence those opinions which disagree with you. It shows the vacuousness of your beliefs. You can't defend your own so you attempt to silence the truth. KNock it off
Star, I actually do not have children, I teach in public school in Baltimore (hence the screen name) but I do plan on adoption. I am gay, and I am a Christian, and I REALLY don't want to debate about my salvation because I've heard it all before and will disagree until the day I die...that being said, I think what kids need more than anything is a loving, stable home. Research has shown children raised by gay parents do not turn out to be odd or different in any way, and that leaving kids in foster programs is detrimental in the long run (with each new placement of a child, the likeliness that they will eventually become involved in drugs or promiscuous behavior goes up.) My personal belief is that God did make me gay, and that I can't have my own children, but through adoption I can love and care for children.
Ok, since the flagging has seemed to calm down let's try this again.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article571273.ece
The link above shows that even animals can turn from their homosexual ways. Silo is no longer "gay," he has repented of his ways and is now with a girl penguin. It's unfortunate that Tango ended up with another girl penguin as a result of watching Silo and Roy's homosexual relations. The fact that she has no genetic material from either "parent" should show us just how influential adults can be towards the young!
BmoreTeacher
Comments made by gays and conservative Christians are being flagged here. Perhaps a gay person flaggs a conservative viewpoint and a conservative flaggs a gay liberal viewpoint.
Just wondering about something: You say you are gay and have been all your life. How is it that you have children that you send to public school?
Why are you assuming its a gay liberal flagging? I have had quite a few of my posts flagged as well, and I am about as gay as they come. The love I have for my boyfriend is not just sexual, it is emotional as well, so your argument is moot. I believe above all things God sees love, not the fact that I am with a man, and the "6 times" the Bible has supposedly been interpretted to say homosexuality is a sin has been interpretted in other ways all 6 times. You choose to believe your version, I'll choose to believe mine. You cannot sin without knowing that you are in your heart of hearts, and in mine, I know I am not because I have heard God speaking to me before. The fact is that being gay isn't just about sex, its about love, and love cannot be evil or sinful.
STOP FLAGGING, it is annoying and destroys debate. Only flag if it is truly abusive or offensive etc. If you disagree then please explain, do not FLAG.
To the gay liberals: Flagging comments as inappropriate just because it is not in alignment with you way of thinking is wrong and you are stiff neck and unyielding in the words of truth from our Lord and Savior Jesus.
BmoreTeacher: you are mistaken, God does see male and female only in heaven, like the angels, there is no male or female. Hi word states six (6) different times that homosexually is an abomination or a sin. The Love that is referred to is not sexual but emotional like one would have with a parent, child, or sibling.
I wish that we would all come to the repentance in the Lord our Savior and love (not sexual but emotionally) one another as our Lord commands.
Note: Flag me and I will post again and again and again and ….
For the record shucks, its not me who is flagging you, but apparently someone is having a grand old time doing it, as its been done to me when I post my argument. Could we maybe conclude that sexual orientation is something fluid from the penguin? Why does everything have to be gay and straight. If indeed God knows neither man nor woman, then God sees only love, whether it be between hetero or homo couples.
The book is cute, period. aside from what someone considers 'homosexual' content..
y'all wanna flag me as inappropriate? That is absolutely rediculous!!! Who says a book about gay penguins is inappropriate? Maybe my children should be able to read it. The fact of the matter is, it is a public school. There are children from gay parents who should be able to feel represented in the school. If your children to not like it or do not agree, they don't have to check it out. Why are people so afraid that their children will read that? How rediculous that because of your views, my children shouldn't have books that represent them. That being said, I think children should also be able to read a Bible, or the Koran, or whatever text represents them and their family in a public school. Again, if people do not like it, then they don't have to read those texts.
Bmore,
It is not just a public library, if it were then this would not be an issue, it is a public school library. The idea is that children go there with their classes and then they read these books on their own, some of which are innappropriate.
jrmd32,
You are just too cute for words.