Today's Christian News Online - The Christian Post
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
Oct 22,2009, 11:41AM

Atheist faith-heads, naturally

Most theists are not "plain theists". Rather, they embed their theism within a wider worldview perspective such as Christianity, Islam, or deism. By the same token, most atheists are not plain atheists. Instead they embed their atheism within a wider worldview perspective: that which is commonly called "naturalism". As such, it is worthwhile not only for the theist to critique atheism as a claim, but also to evaluate the justification for the naturalistic worldview in which atheism is typically embedded.

So what then is naturalism? This is a fascinating and very difficult question to answer. While naturalists debate over the best way to define their position, here is one way that naturalism is commonly defined:

Naturalism: "the view that the only things that exist are matter and energy and that which supervenes upon matter and energy."

The first part of the definition is clear enough. We all have a basic understanding of matter and energy. But what does it mean to "supervene upon"? Perhaps the easiest way to explain the concept of supervenience is by way of an example, so here goes. Neither hydrogen atoms nor oxygen atoms have the property of wetness. But combine them to form water and the property of wetness comes to exist as a result of the combination. It arises from them and is irreducible to them. In other words, wetness supervenes upon the atomic structure of the combined hydrogen and oxygen atoms.

Thus the naturalist is one who says that everything that exists is either reducible to matter/energy (like hydrogen and oxygen atoms) or is supervenient upon matter/energy (like the property of wetness which arises from but is irreducible to the combined atoms). Incidentally, this is remarkably like the ancient Greek philosopher Democritus' view that all that exists is "atoms and the void." Naturalism, it would seem, has been around for awhile.

It follows that if one adopts a naturalist's view then one denies that anything could exist which does not ultimately derive its existence from matter/energy. And this includes a range of non-material based supernatural entities like souls, angels, and of course God.

But why think that naturalism is true? Why think that the only things which exist are matter, energy, and that which supervenes upon matter and energy? What justifies this worldview?

There are two ways that one could possibly justify naturalism. The first and stronger way is a priori. That is, one could argue in principle or by definition that only matter, energy and that which supervenes upon matter/energy could exist. But a very high threshold of evidence would be demanded to justify the naturalist worldview a priori. What argument is there which demonstrates in principle that souls, angels, and God could not exist? Alas, I am aware of none.

This leaves the naturalist to argue for the weaker a posteriori course. According to this empirical approach, while supernatural entities could in principle exist, empirical enquiry yields no evidence of them.

I take issue with the empirical naturalist's claim because I believe there is substantial evidence for the existence of supernatural entities. But let's leave that aside. Instead, note that the naturalist has now painted herself into a corner. By adopting this weaker empirical approach, the naturalist loses her justification for holding naturalism (at least as defined above). In short, now she cannot claim any longer that the only things that exist are matter, energy and that which supervenes on matter and energy. Instead she should adopt the view that she does not know.

Sadly, naturalists typically continue in their naturalism even though they have no evidence to justify its central claim. What is doubly sad is that many seem to have convinced themselves that naturalism is the only scientifically respectable position. But what is scientific about making a dogmatic declaration that is not justified by the evidence? This looks rather like what atheist Richard Dawkins derisively calls a "faith-head".

**I'm leaving today for a weekend in the mountains (Banff, Alberta). Have a good weekend :)

Atheist faith-heads, naturally
Most theists are not "plain theists". Rather, they embed their theism within a wider worldview perspective such as Christianity, Islam, or deism. By the same token, most atheists are not plain atheists. Instead they embed their atheism within a wider worldview perspective: that which is commonly called "naturalism". As such, it is worthwhile not only for the theist to critique atheism as a claim, but also to evaluate the justification for the naturalistic worldview in which atheism is typically embedded.
Most recent comments
1.November 03,2009, 4:06PM
lpepperw: "But can you answer how you "discover what is morally right and wrong on their own"?"

Yes, and I did: Humans can discover what is right and wrong through their innate moral sense plus rational intuition, etc.

lpepperw: "What is the basis for right and wrong? One persons right may be another persons wrong."

Let me put it this way: if humans cannot discover what is right and wrong on their own, then no one is justified in claiming that X is right or wrong.

Even if you think that God can reveal to you that slavery is wrong, how could you ever know that you are following God's commands and not Satan's?
--ConverseAtheist
2.November 03,2009, 2:50PM
But can you answer how you "discover what is morally right and wrong on their own" What is the basis for right and wrong? One persons right may be
another persons wrong.
--lpepperw
3.November 03,2009, 3:11AM
"Where do you get your morals from? Are you an atheist using Judeo-Christian ethics, inspired by the Bible and taught for centuries?" -- lpepperw

I believe that humans can discover what is morally right and wrong on their own -- through an innate moral sense + rational intuition, etc.

Humans do not require a super-human agent to inform them of what is right and wrong.

Don't you agree?
--ConverseAtheist
4.November 03,2009, 1:21AM
converseatheist,
"As an atheist, I claim equal... justification for deciding moral issues as any theist."
Where do you get your morals from? Are you an atheist using
Judeo-Christian ethics, inspired by the Bible and taught for
centuries?
--lpepperw
5.October 30,2009, 4:18PM
"RD, Wouldn't a true atheist be an anarchist/survivalist?

Otherwise, who are they borrowing their scruples from?" -- lpepperw

I may not be RD, but I can take a stab at this scruples business. As an atheist, I claim equal... justification for deciding moral issues as any theist. Feel free to counter that if you want.
--ConverseAtheist
6.October 28,2009, 11:50AM
RD, Wouldn't a true atheist be an anarchist/survivalist?
Otherwise, who are they borrowing their scruples from?
--lpepperw
7.October 23,2009, 5:11PM
RD: "We have experience of matter, energy and entities or properties which supervene on matter and energy. But does that warrant the naturalist's claim that nothing exists but matter, energy and that which supervenes on matter and energy?"

You must be making the argument that atheists who believe "that people of faith do not have a new way of gaining knowledge about external reality but have instead found a new way of fooling themselves" is a properly basic belief that they know with the same certainty that he believes that 2+2=4 -- are not justified in holding this belief.

Do you have any undercutting defeaters to support this argument?
--ConverseAtheist
8.October 23,2009, 1:39PM
Yes RD, you have a problem with burden of proof.

> the only things that exist are matter and energy and that which supervenes upon matter and energy.

How about tweaking this definition so that it does not serve as a straw man?

Matter and energy, and that which supervenes upon matter and energy, are sufficient to explain all that we observe.

I think maybe “observe” is unnecessarily weak, but you get the idea: A strong affirmative claim, but one that is not scoped to cover anything that might be conceived.

> atheism, understood to be the denial of the proposition that God exists

I call shenanigans! This misrepresentation of yours is what first motivated me to comment on your blog. Atheism is quite well understood to merely be lack of belief in a personal god. This fact has been spelled out to you in no uncertain terms, and you stopped making this particularly blatantly false assertion for long enough now that it was reasonable for me to assume that the point had gotten through to you. Are you hopeless in this regard, or merely dishonest?
--beetle496
9.October 23,2009, 12:00PM
Conversational atheist,

We have experience of matter, energy and entities or properties which supervene on matter and energy. But does that warrant the naturalist's claim that nothing exists but matter, energy and that which supervenes on matter and energy? Of course not. So while you could be an agnostic about the existence of non-natural substances or properties, what would justify that naturalist's claim that this is indeed all that exists?

There has been a lot of facile banter in this thread about burden of proof. Well in this case the burden of proof lies with the naturalist who is making a claim to knowledge. And again by naturalist I am talking about the position that has been representative of the previous century's atheists as well as the premiere atheists of this century, not the hillbilly fools that simply sell lots of books with "atheist" in the title.
--RD Rauser
10.October 23,2009, 11:56AM
I'm working my way up the posts. I have time for a couple more.

gaga,

I gave a few names of atheistic naturalists in the last post. These are not fringe figures, they are (or were) leading philosophers of the twentieth century. Donald Davidson is another, David Papineau is another. So are Kai Neilsen and J.L. Mackie. I would encourage you to get into the abundant literature on the topic.
--RD Rauser
11.October 23,2009, 11:52AM
Sorceror says: "It's worth noting that, in practice, atheists do say that they don't know."

First off, this is not the topic of my post. I am concerned with those individuals who are committed to naturalism. People like WV Quine, Bertrand Russell, Wilfred Sellars, David Armstrong and their contemporary equivalents. So the question here is how naturalism as a claim about the world could possibly be justified.

Naturalism is a stronger claim than atheism. But even so atheism, understood to be the denial of the proposition that God exists, also requires justification.

There are all sorts of propositions that we believe which we recognize do not have maximal justification. To take a simple example, it is possible that I am dreaming but I believe I am not. I don't believe I am not dreaming with the same conviction that I believe 2+2=4, but I believe both and if they are both true, then I also believe I know both.

Thus, Dawkins could be a 6 on his scale and know there is no God (if that proposition is in fact true).

What bothers me are those people who redefine agnosticism as weak atheism because that simply confuses the issue.

But again, my concern here is not atheism or agnosticism per se but rather naturalism and the fact that it is unjustified.
--RD Rauser
12.October 23,2009, 11:43AM
Ahhh,

blogging remotely from the Rockies. Although the snowcapped mountains beckon, I cannot resist some replies.

Sorceror writes: "I've got an a priori problem with the "supernatural". How do you define it? In practice, so far as I can see, it means "stuff we can never understand"."

Not at all, as my post makes clear. According to the definitions I have used supernatural is whatever is neither material or energic or supervenient upon the material or energic.

Note this: supernatural is only a problematic concept insofar as natural is problematic.
--RD Rauser
13.October 23,2009, 7:38AM
Since Sorcerer got italics, I will try some HTML tags…

This leaves the naturalist to argue for the weaker a posteriori course.


Except that since naturalists understand burden of proof, they reject such a conclusion.

I take issue with the empirical naturalist’s claim because I believe there is substantial evidence for the existence of supernatural entities.


Except that all such “evidence” comes down to testimony and appeals to authority.

Sadly, naturalists typically continue in their naturalism even though they have no evidence to justify its central claim.


No evidence save the progress that has been produced through naturalism since the invention of the scientific method? (I think maybe you meant proof in the sentence above?
--beetle496
14.October 23,2009, 3:23AM
> Surely you're familiar with the concept of burden of proof. <
*cough* not really *cough*
--gaga
15.October 22,2009, 6:51PM
Prof. Rauser, this is a very weak argument. First of all, why should the naturalist have to prove that God, souls, angels etc. don't exist? What about leprechauns, the Loch Ness monster, etc, etc? Where does it end? Surely you're familiar with the concept of burden of proof.

Secondly, there is a strong argument why it is extremely unlikely in principle that God exists. Richard Dawkins gave it in his book The God Delusion, but I'm not sure if he is its originator. Anyway, if God is all knowing, all powerful, all that and a bag of chips, then he must be very complex. But all the evidence from both biology and the physical sciences suggests that complex entities can only arise from simpler ones. If God is the explanation for everything, what is the explanation for God? Supergod, who would have to be even more complex? This leads to infinite regress and is untenable.

Finally, the naturalistic explanation of the universe is the most parsimonious one, which is a good thing. Remember Occam's razor. Also you should distinguish between naturalism as a statement of fact, and naturalism as a matter of methodology. "Naturalists typically continue in their naturalism" because this is the most sensible working assumption, and it has a fantastic track record of improving our understanding of the natural world and ability to control it, whereas religion has no track record at all of increasing knowledge - it has only increased violence and bloodshed.
--Ethan
16.October 22,2009, 2:38PM
I like what gaga wrote, so I'll echo it: "if you think that there is something supernatural which has an effect on the natural world, show me the evidence. If that something supernatural doesn't have any appreciable effect on the natural world, you are free to hold those beliefs, if they make you happy, but they are unconvincing." -- gaga

If you would like an example of an astoundingly unconvincing bit of evidence that a theist has mustered in defense of supernatural intervention in the world. How about: "When I pray coincidences happen. When I stop praying, coincidences stop."

Let's see, how would a theologian argue from this point on... I'm new at this, but I might guess:

----------

An atheist believes that when theists claim to have a "new way of gaining knowledge about external reality through faith" they have really discovered a "new way of fooling themselves" and are quite proud of this fact. And, I strongly feel that this can be a properly basic belief for an atheist to have, absent defeaters, of course.

Defeaters like the theist demonstrating to an outside observer that he can gain some kind of verifiable knowledge that he didn't previously have via faith.

------

But, I'm not a theologian.
--ConverseAtheist
17.October 22,2009, 12:50PM
btw, have fun in Banff! :)
--gaga
18.October 22,2009, 12:47PM
I can't think of any prominent atheist making the claim that there absolutely isn't anything supernatural out there, not even Dawkins, as sorceror quoted.
My view, fwiw, is simply the following: if you think that there is something supernatural which has an effect on the natural world, show me the evidence. If that something supernatural doesn't have any appreciable effect on the natural world, you are free to hold those beliefs, if they make you happy, but they are unconvincing.
--gaga
19.October 22,2009, 12:11PM
It's worth noting that, in practice, atheists do say that they don't know. Take Dawkins himself:

On a scale of 1 to 7, where 1 is certitude that God exists and 7 is certitude that God does not exist, Dawkins rates himself a 6: "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

So, is he actually a "faith-head"?
--sorceror
20.October 22,2009, 12:08PM
I've got an a priori problem with the "supernatural". How do you define it? In practice, so far as I can see, it means "stuff we can never understand". (Not just "stuff we don't understand", but "stuff we can't ever understand.) Consider: as soon as something's understood, nobody considers it supernatural anymore.

Now, it may be that there are things out there that are 'unknowable' by humans. Perhaps they're 'too big for us', too complex for us to comprehend. Or perhaps they are too alien, and simply won't fit within the mental categories, the 'toolbox' humans have available. It's certainly possible, and can't be ruled out a priori. But this point is, at best, of only philosophical interest. It doesn't have a practical bearing.

How can we, in practice, distinguish between something 'currently unknown but comprehensible' and something 'forever unknowable'? From a practical perspective, the only way to tell which category something falls into is to try to understand it; if you succeed, then it was knowable. The problem is, if you fail, you can't conclude that it's unknowable. It might be... but it also might be the case that you just didn't happen to figure out something knowable, and you or someone else might have better luck on a subsequent attempt.

The "supernatural" is, in practice, a useless concept.
--sorceror
Comment on this Story
Don't have a christian Post ID? Signing up is easy. Click here
Copyright © The Christian Post. All right reserved.About Us|Contact Us|Media Kit|Registration|Terms and Conditions|Disclaimer|Corrections