'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:26 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

DP

Any responses to my questions posed to you? I like to hear from you as you tend to have a balanced view. I ask them to you because they are precisely the questions that led me away from the faith and I am always curious to hear from others with balanced views how they deal with such questions.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:08 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

"Then do explain why Christians have been getting mass flagged too (and not just the Catholics)....

Your arguement is also the best way to keep Jesus out of your life...."

I guess I haven't seen Christians being summarily flagged like USAtheist.

If by choosing to believe in historical and natural evidence over the contradictory writings of largely unknown men from the Bronze Age means I am keeping Jesus out of my life, then yes...you are right. But I do this for the exact same reasons you use to keep Zeus, Ra, Thor and the 1000s of other deities out of yours.

If you were to see contradictions between reality and what is written in the Koran, wouldn't you use that information to prove to yourself and others that Islam is untrue? Be honest. And if your answer is yes, why would you be unwilling to do the same with regard to your own faith?

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:15 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

"Quite frankly, I don't think most of the flagging is based on content."

Exactly my point. The flaggers identify people who, by their screennames, have dissenting views and flag everything they say without so much as reading their posts. They have predetermined the person is wrong and close their eyes and plug their ears. This is the easiest (read 'laziest') way to keep a faith. Close out any facts or ideas that contradict the revelation that they have determined must be inerrant.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:47 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

Slacker

Here's what I am getting at: while we don't have the identity of the flagger, his/her actions show that he/she is not a non-believer. On this board, that doesn't leave any real alternatives as to the profile of who it would be. We both know this is true, yet you deny it in order to escape the reality of what I am saying, which is: in order to be a Christian who believes in the inerrancy of Scripture, one must close one's eyes to many truths in order to reconcile Scripture with natural evidence, history, etc.

Christians do it on an individual level (you don't have to look any further than this string of posts to see that...full of baseless claims to support a predetermined political view, deleting dissenting views from non-believers, etc). And they do it at an institutional level (Discovery Institute, Answers in Genesis, The Creation Museum, etc).

And this isn't stereotyping. To be stereotyping I would have to be labeling an entire group of people based on my OWN perceptions of their actions...perceptions that I will be the first to admit could be entirely wrong. But this isn't about my perceptions...it is about facts. On one side there is the Bible, which the church has predetermined must be inerrant. On the other side, historical facts, observations in nature, etc, which clearly contradict the Bible. There is a choice to be made: either you believe the natural and historical facts and deny the inerrancy of the Bible, or you hold to the Bible and close your eyes to inconvenient natural and historical facts. Christians, by definition, belong to the second group. I am not stereotyping nor am I a hypocrite...I am stating what is an observable truth.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

"So your just making an assumption that it is a Christian. without any facts as to who is flagging, because you dont' agree with the majority on this post, you automatically think it is a Christian. It could be, but you don't know who it is.... BTW, it aint me... I wanna hear from all yall so we can argue like gentlemen, or ladies..."

Have you ever discussed anything with anyone on this site who wasn't either a Christian or an atheist? I am only a sample of one (not exactly a statistical sample by any stretch), but I have yet to meet anyone here who didn't fall into one of those two categories. And if you are suggesting that there is a rogue little atheist trolling around here flagging all the posts by all the other atheists regardless of what they wrote, I suppose there is no way for me to say with absolute certainty that you are wrong...but I could say it with about the closest thing possible to absolute certainty.

This is exactly the sort of willingness to close one's eyes to facts and ideas that I was talking about. You actually did it in trying to prove you didn't. Thank you for providing Exhibit A.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:42 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Thanks, HM. I find the discussions here to be interesting, but the antics of some are pretty nutty. Doesnt bother me though. The new unflagging option took the flaggers from being a real nuisance to just being little invisible nitwits to chuckle at.

Fla. Churches Boycott Pepsi Products Over 'Anti-Family' Efforts

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:19 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

This article is just too comical. Megachurches, glorified suburban social clubs, which market religion like cans of soda, now are boycotting certains kinds of soda but are unwilling to remove the soda vending machines just outside their indoor basketball courts...so they opt to switch them to another brand, which is equally committed to (gasp) encourage its employees to respect their coworkers regardless of their sexual orientation.

What color is the sky in this strange little world?

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:08 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

Hey flagger. I am an atheist too so flag away! Just tell me something though...what do you think it actually accomplishes? I will tell you one thing it does accomplish: it reinforces the idea that those with fundamentalist religious beliefs typically feel the need to squelch any fact or idea that runs contrary to your revelation (that must be right at all costs), no matter how dishonest you need to be to do it. Precisely the ones who are convinced they are proclaimers of the truth are often truths most notable enemies.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Slacker

Can you give a couple of concrete examples of issues about which Obama has blamed others and not taken responsibility? I am curious to know upon what you are basing your statement.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:15 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

"Sounds like the same irresonsible response the white house is given."

How is the statement of the FACT that the 2009 budget was that of the previous administration irresponsible? It is not good, bad or otherwise. It is just a fact.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:38 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

"That's my point. Where do the investors get their info from? Many factor in their favorite news source. "We're looking at a recession" reported on the news = perceived risk."

No. Institutional investors do market valuation based primarily on research of financials, economic indicators and market technicals. What you read about in papers is a journalists take on that source information and their best guess on what happened with the markets (after the market makers...institutional investors...moved them).

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:32 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

DP

I never said that politics and campaigns do not influence markets. They do. But the massive swings in valuation in 2008 were far and away the result of the perceived risk of a systemic collapse of the banking sector. And you are right, election years inject higher uncertainty and therefore volatility into the equity markets, which often does result in risk averse investors leaving the market and reentering afterwards. But, like you said, this is always the case and is not specific to Obama or any other candidate. If it were specific to him, you would have seen a big selloff as the probability of his entering office increased. It was not the case.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:11 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

DP

"So...Bush doubled the national debt. Obama has taken that "doubled debt" and quadrupled it...IN 6 MONTHS!!!"

Wow, you are just full of misinformation today, arent you? The national debt now stands at about $11.5 trillion (just a little less than $42 trillion, which is where it would have to be if Obama had quadrupled it). Furthermore, the new debt issuance in 2009 is the result of the 2009 fiscal budget, which was approved by the Bush administration. As is always the case, the budget of a presidents first year in office is the one that was approved by the former one. Granted, the Obama administration has introduced and congress passed some spending programs beyond the budget, but the resulting deficit represents fractions of the debt, not multiples.

I am not here to defend Obama. I think he inherited some big problems and I do not agree with some of his proposed solutions to them. But the value of any debate goes sailing out the window when any of the partipants are willing to present outright fabrications to prove their side is right. The only thing they prove is that they are willing to be dishonest with themselves and others to prop up their own preconceived ideas and egos.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:54 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

DP

You said, "Now, as you can see the DJIA was pretty good until Obama won the Democratic ticket and started bad mouthing the Bush administration and talking about how bad the economy was. As the election got closer the DJIA got worse. The worse the main stream media portrayed our economy the worse it got."

We have had some good discussions here and I respect what you have to say, for the most part, but when it comes to matters of capital markets, I suggest you stick to your knitting...which is obviously something else. Your case for causality is silly. Look back at your monthly index levels: the equity markets began to soften in the wake of the bailout of Bear Stearns in March of 2008. While the market initially took it in stride, it became apparent in the following months that it would not be the last bank to collapse. By mid summer the market started pricing in that the Fed would not be able nor have interest in bailing out the next banks on the verge of failing. Then in September Lehman failed and the Fed indeed did not step in, which led to a massive selloff in equity markets as investors made their flight to low-risk assets.

These large market valuation swings had little to do Obama or Bush, but rather perceived risk and particularly that related to the financial sector. And they certainly had nothing to do with that old boogyman 'the mainstream media'. Equity markets are driven by institutional investors...i.e. smart ones. What comes out in the media is yesterdays news to the real market participants and, therefore, the market itself. Events you read about this morning in the paper were priced in yesterday if not before, typically based on source information...not what USAToday decides to write about them.

'I Hate Obama' Pastor Draws Protesters Outside Church

Bassomatic76 »

Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:37 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

jar1961

"The stock market has plummeted 700 points since he took office .... dont know where you get your info from."

And I dont know where you get your info from. The Dow is UP over 1000 points or 12% and the S&P is UP 150 points or 17% since he took office. Pinning short term stock performance on when a president takes office is about as silly an investment metric as I can imagine (since the market priced in his being in office long before that), but I suppose that really is not pertinent here. What is pertinent is stating a falsehood and then pinning that falsehood (falsely) on someone!

Evangelical Leaders Rebuke Carter for 'Reckless' Discrimination Claims

Bassomatic76 »

Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:44 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

wowie

I read through the information on the link that you sent me. It was clearly written by someone who had gone from having strong convictions about the inexistence of God to having strong belief in his existence. I found it particularly interesting because her experience was the exact opposite of my own. Much of what she wrote was about amazing complexity of our universe, our planet, and our biology. I share this same amazement. The more I read information about cosmology, biology, and genetics, the more I am impressed by how intricate it all is. But this complexity, to me, does more to disprove the existence of God than it does to prove it. I say this for at least a couple of reasons: 1) The Genesis creation story is naively simplistic in the face of the complexity we see all around us. It tells us that the earth existed before the sun (as did days and nights, for that matter). 2) The story contradicts these same amazing natural observations that the author uses to prove Gods existence. Some examples would be the Bibles young earth story in the face of the millions of varves we can observe at the bottom of Lake Baikal and how radiometric testing of organic material in those varves confirms their age; or the existence of non-clonal trees in California that date back to long before when the Great Flood would have taken place.

Basically, I see the author of the page committing a common error that many commit: she makes a claim that all we see around us in our universe, our nature, and ourselves, is too complex not to have a divine author; therefore God (and specifically the God of Abraham) must exist. While the first half of the statement has a great deal of merit, the conclusion does not. While there could be a higher being behind all we see, the fact that sacred text that was supposedly divinely and inerrantly inspired by God contradicts our complex nature/biology gives us a reasonable amount of information upon which to conclude that he must not be that higher being.

Just some of my thoughts on the site. Thank you for giving me the link; it was an interesting point of view.

Evangelical Leaders Rebuke Carter for 'Reckless' Discrimination Claims

Bassomatic76 »

Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:35 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Wowie

I am glad to hear you are not tormented. Many are, which is one of the negative side effects I see in the monotheistic religions. Thank you for the link. I will check it out today.

Evangelical Leaders Rebuke Carter for 'Reckless' Discrimination Claims

Bassomatic76 »

Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:33 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Hiskid

I am the textbook definition of a "jack of all trades - master of none" (and particularly not a master of fishing :-). The handle "Bassomatic76" is from an old SNL skit with Dan Akroid that I have always thought to be really funny. You can find it on youtube...hope you enjoy it.

To answer your question (and no worries about it being personal...those are the ones that generate the best discussions), the more I studied the Bible and its history along side that of other religions and natural evidence found through scientific discovery, the more I found I had to ignore certain things to maintain my faith. I am not one to discard faith; after all, we all have to have faith when it comes to questions that are not yet answered. My problem was with having to ignore answers that we already do have in order to keep faith. And there are many, particularly with respect to mans origins, the flood, the veracity of the gospels, their supposed authors, their use of pagan symbolism and certain information for desired effect, etc. I realize that for someone who does believe, it is sad to hear of someone who no longer does; but I can tell you from experience that letting go of Christianity was one of the most liberating and satisfying things I have ever done.

Regarding near-death experiences, I have read some on the subject. As with any other subject, I prefer to see first if there is a natural explanation before jumping to supernatural conclusions. Some thoughts: 1) Certain drugs, like Keritan, have been shown to produce the same near-death experience effect, including no pain, out of body experience, tunnel with the light at the end, etc. 2) The same experience is typically had by all, including those who are not Christian. If eternal reward were reserved for Christians only, then the atheists who have had these experiences should not have seen light, which is not the case. 3) Even if there is an afterlife (I am no more qualified to say there is not one than you are to say there is as neither of us have died), there is nothing to indicate that it has anything to do with the God of Abraham. It could be associated with any number of recognized deities, or even one that has yet to be recognized. I do not completely discard the idea of a higher being, but I think there is enough evidence against that being God to not believe in it.

But, by all means, please send me the links to the books. I would be curious to read them. Life is about learning and I welcome reading about any point of view that will help me learn more.

Evangelical Leaders Rebuke Carter for 'Reckless' Discrimination Claims

Bassomatic76 »

Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:27 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Believer

Several of the stories in Acts would indicate that salvation and baptism go hand in hand. That is all I was getting at with both sides having scriptural backing. I was just trying to bring a bit a relief perhaps to those tormented about where loved ones who have died now are. I am likely not going to change anyones beliefs here, but thought I would put it out there.

Evangelical Leaders Rebuke Carter for 'Reckless' Discrimination Claims

Bassomatic76 »

Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:27 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Hiskid

You may be so bold; no problem at all. First of all, I was chatting with DP, Believer, et al; people with whom I chat about all the time about life, afterlife, etc. We normally have a cordial exchange and I like to hear where they come from. Yes, I am an atheist, but I was born and raised in an evangelical church. I know all about the Christian idea of truth and do not believe in it. I am not searching for anything...I just like the debate and sharing some of the things I have learned along my journey, much like many of the Christians who frequent the site I do where I have many more like-minded people, like you indicated. The thing is, speaking with those who do not share the exact same beliefs can be an enriching experience. But if you would rather chat with only those who will chime in and give you back pats on what you write, by all means, feel free to ignore my posts.