Melissa Etheridge, Lesbian Spouse Defend Pastor Rick Warren

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Sorry if you or anyone else was insulted. I wanted clarification, but I didn't want words put into my mouth that I did not say (That to me is lying. I don't know what you call it.).

I guess it's OK to insult me, even though you don't know me, either.

Melissa Etheridge, Lesbian Spouse Defend Pastor Rick Warren

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:00 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Prophet, it is outright LYING to say that I said that. It is YOUR opinion, not mine.

Melissa Etheridge, Lesbian Spouse Defend Pastor Rick Warren

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Quote Prophet: "Now I may have stretched it a little..."

More than a little, as that is not at all what I meant.

You have every right to your opinion, whether I agree with it or not, but in the future, please avoid "stretching my words a little" and then using them against me to make your point.

Melissa Etheridge, Lesbian Spouse Defend Pastor Rick Warren

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:43 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Quote Prophet: "You equated speaking out against homosexuality to a hate crime."

I did not. Show me where I did that!

Quote believer: "bonnie, so then the testimonies we hear from both men and women who were homosexual but are no longer homosexual, they are either lying to us or themselves or both?"

Yes.

Melissa Etheridge, Lesbian Spouse Defend Pastor Rick Warren

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

mtgburrell, thanks for the link.

Quote: Prophet

"Wow...way to backpeddle. First you call it hate crimes then you call it prejudice.

"I wonder who it was that did all those violent attacks on the LDS group after proposition 8 passed? Could it be the gay community? Were any of them charged with hate crimes? Most definitely not.

"Now if the tables had been turned....wow what a difference that would make. I think it's pathetic that the gay community tries to play the martyr, when they are the aggressor."

Wow, you folks have been busy. Way too much to reply to, as I am enjoying time with my family. But since Prophet, you are putting words into my mouth, I'll respond to you.

I agree that attacking the church in retaliation for the prop 8 vote was not the smartest thing the gay community has ever done. It just gives more fuel to your "the church is the real victim here" fire. And yes, there should have been more arrests than there were.

To believe something based on ignorance, hearsay, and myths rather than fact is prejudice.

Hate crimes that should be punished to the fullest extent of the law refer to things like the beating death of Matthew Shepherd ten years ago.

Show me where I ever said otherwise.

http://www.matthewshepard.org/site/PageServer?pagename=mat_Matthews_Life


And Daniel Paul, speaking of facts, no one has been able to scientifically prove that homosexuality is a choice. There is no known "cause." But for the real proof, ask people who are gay, and the overwhelming majority of them will tell you that they were born that way. Do you believe the "experts" in the various Christian counceling organizations or do you believe someone who lives it?

Anyone who claims to have been "cured" of homosexuality, when being honest with themselves will realize that they are still gay. They have simply denied their natural attractions and become celibate or married someone of the opposite sex whom they are incapable of loving the way they ought to love and be loved.

Every person has needs. Every person wants to be loved. I believe God wants this for all of His children.

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:07 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Not that it's any of YOUR business, IacceptHim, but the answer is neither.

Melissa Etheridge, Lesbian Spouse Defend Pastor Rick Warren

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:13 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"'Wow. Ramifications of hate crimes bills? Are you saying that it's OK to commit hate crimes against homosexuals?'

"Only if you're ignorant enough to call it a hate crime to say that homosexuality is a sin."

I don't call that a hate crime. I call it prejudice.

"why should a life style that is chosen by an someone have more protection then any other?"

It is not "chosen."

There are anti-discrimination laws on the federal books, but these laws have been added to over the years, naming specific groups that should have been implicitly covered in the original law, yet who were still being targeted unfairly. These kinds of specifications extend to hate crimes as well. Gays aren't asking for special treatment; they are asking for equal treatment.

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:54 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"Tell us where we can find something where God approves of men giving into their burning lust for one another."

Giving in to burning lust for anyone outside of a committed relationship (ideally marriage, but since it's forbidden by law for gays in most states...) is wrong, regardless of whether it's same sex or not.

Many homosexual relationships are monogamous with sexual relations as part of that committment, just like many heterosexual relationships. The Bible does not say that this is wrong.

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:43 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

"Homosexuality is no part of Gods will for your life and blaming Him for creating you that way is wrong."

I don't "blame" Him for anything. I blame people like you who cannot get past an interpretation of scripture that hasn't changed with the education of the human race. God and modern science are not opposed.

And AIDS is not exclusively a homosexual disease. There are an increasing number of heterosexuals who are contracting AIDS in the US.

Stop relying on myths that have been substituted for facts since the 1970's and prior.

Being gay is not a problem or a defect. Gay/straight, right-handed/left-handed: different sides of the exact same coin. Just part of God's diverse creation. It's not the gays that need fixing or forgiveness (at least not for being gay).

Melissa Etheridge, Lesbian Spouse Defend Pastor Rick Warren

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Quote Tom: "...refuses to see the ramifications of civil unions or gay marriages or the hate crimes bills that are trying to be past."

Wow. Ramifications of hate crimes bills? Are you saying that it's OK to commit hate crimes against homosexuals?

I didn't read down through all of the comments, but to the original point of the article, either it's ALL marriage or none of it is - from a legal/civil point of view. I don't have a problem with the term "marriage" being used only in religious ceremonies, since the religious community seems to think that banning gays from actually calling it marriage will somehow protect it from being tarnished or poisoned (Actually, the horses are already out of the barn, but shut the door if you think it will help.).

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

IacceptHim, there is a huge difference between alcoholism and homosexuality.

As you know from experience, alcoholism is destructive to the life of the person who has it, and to the people who love him.

What harm is it to anyone else if a man loves another man?

You are so sure you know the truth. So were the people who used the scriptures to justify slavery and segregation.

And as to my personal walk with God - well, that's between God and me, isn't it? You ARE judging me. I am a sinner, but what exacly my sins are - again, that's between God and me. But I cannot walk as a child of God and believe that He would not allow a person whom He created AS HE IS to have love on this earth the way he was meant to have it.

Rick Warren Sets the Record Straight

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Oh, I forgot to mention, the quote in question starts about 2:10

Rick Warren Sets the Record Straight

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Quote Warren: "I have been accused of equating gay partnerships with incest and pedophilia. Now, of course, as members of Saddleback Church, you know I believe no such thing."

Well, you can just believe what he's saying here or see for yourself on this interview. Was this someone else disguised as Pastor Warren?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0FHg_mbBVk&eurl

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

IacceptHim, please do tell me where exactly you are going with this question. You say I am looking to be offended? I say that by the tone of your last post, you are looking to offend. I know Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I know Jesus as a person and as the Son of God, and I believe He knows me, as well. I believe He loves everyone, gay and straight, as they are and doesn't command anyone to shun true earthly love for what Christian society deems to be acceptable behavior.

DelightntheLord, yes, I use the Bible against its own when I feel they are wrong, just as I have seen others use it to justify treating people as a sub class of humankind.

My problem is not with God; it's with many of those who repersent Him on earth.

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Well, that is a very open-ended question. I shall answer with some quotes from Him.

Matt. 23:13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from men; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

vs.24 You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

vs. 28 Even so you too outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Quote governor720: "We arent born pure hence original sin... We are born in God's image or have the right to freely choose... Bonnie... based on your logic... people are born rapists and pedophiles {both have to completly deal with ones sexuality} so we should accept thier views too?..."

My "logic" is based on fact, not myth or prejudice.

http://healthyminds.org/glbissues.cfm

Do you really think rape and pedophilia have anything to do with sexuality? You are comparing acts of violence and a desire to control/degrade another person to sexual orientation.

On original sin: homosexuality is no more "sinful" than heterosexuality. They are two sides of the same coin.

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Quote jikim: "Bonnie and Ratpat; wouldn't it be the same as quitting smoking?"

Uh, that would be a No. Homosexuality is no more a sin than heterosexuality. They are two sides of the same coin.

It's not a habit or a decision. When did you decide to be straight? You didn't. You just are. Gays just are, too.

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:29 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

The American Psychiatric Association removed "homosexuality" from its official list of mental disorders in 1973. Why, then, does the majority of the Christian Right still insist that it's a problem?

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:16 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Quote jikim: "Bonnie and Ratpat, how would you explain http://www.exodus-international.org/"

It is a misguided attempt to fix what is not broken. Any "success" is merely a denying of one's true self and adapting a behavior that is more "acceptable" to the "enlightened" Pharisees of today's Christian society. In reality it leads to a life of shame and loneliness. You wish either for gays to enter into sham marriages with people whom they cannot fully love, which hurts both parties and any children that result; or you wish them to be celibate because you cannot accept them as they are. It is a heterosexual problem, as I said.

(And celibacy is a gift to God and should only be offered by those who wish to devote their lives fully, and in a sense, wish to be "married" to Him. It should not be demanded of any segment of the human race for any other reason.)

Traditional Marriage Supporters Win?

Bonnie_Halfelvn »

Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:11 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

(Sorry if this posts twice; I thought I got kicked out.)

Be warned and remember: the Bible was used in the past to justify bans on interracial marriage. It was used to justify slavery and segregation, and the Holocaust.

The Bible was written in a time when homosexuality, as at least some of us understand it today, was a complete unknown. The Bible says nothing of consensual, loving relationships between gay people. In both the heterosexual and homosexual sense, the Bible talks about rape, adultery, and sex without love as sin.

Here is why the gay community is angry at the Church:

What the majority of the Christian community fail to understand about homosexuality is the fundamental "cause." This is not a mental disorder. It is not an illness or an addiction. It is not a defect. It is not caused by some traumatic event or by emotional distress. Gay people are born gay. I submit that it is no different than being born right- or left-handed. Scientifically, there is no evidence to back up any other "cause" of homosexuality (If you believe that science and God are diametrically opposed, you might as well stop reading here, and keep believing whatever myths you wish!)

Part of "loving" is empathy, and you cannot empathize if you do not understand. I urge you to make a real effort to learn about the lives of the gay and lesbian community. Talk to them. Yes, about the hard stuff. You do not need to know every detail of what they do in the bedroom. But you do need to know what it was like for them to discover that they were gay. You need to know what it was like for them to come out to their parents - or to keep it a secret for fear of being kicked out of the house. You need to know what it's like for them to live in a world where what is natural for them is looked upon as sinful and immoral. They are God's children, too.

I am not so vain as to say I completely understand the Bible, but I know two things in my heart: Gay people are a NATURAL part of God's diverse creation, and a loving God would not say to one of His own, "It is immoral to be yourself."

This country never had a "black problem." It had a "white problem." Now, it has a Heterosexual problem. There is a board in your eye.