Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

But Delight,

The thing is we will never come to the same understanding. But according to my conscience, that is perfectly fine.

Even if I am not a homosexual, I don't think I would change my views on God and on the world. I simply cannot conceive a God that would be so inclusive as to think that only the people who would accept his Son would see him in the Kingdom of Heaven and not the others who know not of his son because they are far far away in Antartika and only know of his values. I simply cannot conceive a God that is so shallow as to care for the physical value of things and not the deepr emotional value. My god is inclusive and all loving. And the bible that I read agrees with that.

But feel no disappointment or anger Delight. It's okay for 2 people to have two totally different views on spirituality. So as long as we both live our lives to the fullest and be grateful for every bit of it. So as long as we're both happy. That's all that matters.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:45 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"Why can't you see yourself as a human first rather than judge everything by your sexual proclivity?"

That's exactly what I am doing delight, my sexual orientation is only a small part of me that doesn't define myself. But anyway I've decided not to discuss too much in this forum, though I'd try to offer my views on biblical scripture once in a while.. since it'd help me read more of the bible anyway.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:40 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Bryan's interpreation of Roman 9:

This chapter talks more about God's love for all races instead of one "elite" race. Verse 8 was used to emphasize that Isrealis are no more of God's children than the world population is. That it is not the Isrealis ("natural children") that is God's child, but the entire world. ("children of the promise").

The author's sentiments were expressed quite resonately in verse 14. "What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!"

The author tries to speak back towards those who think God unjust, who created them less wealthy than others, who created them of an inferior race. In essence, he used the clay as an example - it doesn't matter if it were for noble purposes or for common use, it is the same clay.

We were all created equal, whether or not he created us to be men, women, black, white, heterosexual, homosexual, muslims, christians, we are still his children.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

"but there must be something to reconcile for there to be reconcilation."

Perhaps you're right, perhaps God is someone who would exclude all but Christians. Perhaps God would send the Muslims and Jews and Bhudists to hell even if they lived a happy and good life. Perhaps God does have laws that doesn't make sense (at least to me) when looking at his other creations.

But if that is the case, then I do not view him as God, and if I fail to challenge his views, then I shall burn in hell with the others who have good hearts but just decided to follow a different religion with the same values.

And together in hell, our conscience and integrity shall keep us warm .

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Delight,

But my values have always been consistent. Perhaps I am not clear enough.

1. We are all God's children. Jesus saying that he is God's son does not make him a hypocrite.

2. Jesus was like any other main prophets in other religions, for example Muhammed. Both had a close relationship with God and was asked by God to preach to the people in their region, to save them.

3. Jesus was the people's road to salvation, because indeed his values (God's values) would help make human beings happier people.

This entire interpretation came forth when I asked God for help in reconciling the bible with other religiouns.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

If a poet says that: "My love is fire." Is he lying?

Can one be so sure that Jesus had not metaphorical intentions in his words, when he said, "I am God!" But then he is God, we just have a different view of what God is.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

"Bryan,
You have no desire to know the God of the Bible as the God you should know, do you? Just the god you want to know? Even if you're wrong?"

Not really, the God that I know reconciles with the God I see from the bible. It is the God that the currenty catholic church believe in that I cannot follow. As I have said, if the God that the church believes in is in fact God as it is, then I shall dwell in hell in peace rather than suffer in heaven from my guilt of watching all the muslims, jews, and homosexuals burn.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"Do you not believe Jesus words when He says literally; " I and My Father are one." John 10:30.
Is Jesus then a liar...with no purity of heart?"

I interpreted this before on this post. Delight, the heart (conscience, integrity) is God, it is where God planted his seed. So when Jesus said that he and God are one, he was in fact right.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

"Jesus said He is God. He is either God, or he is a lunatic on par with a man who insists he is a poached egg, or he is a liar, the very Devil of Hell!"

Must it really be all black and white? So if he is not God's son he is a lunatic? Absurd.

He was a man who was willing to sacrifice his life for God. He was the "only son that God sacrificed". (in the Christian realm that is.) He devoted his life, let go of his personal desires, to reflect God's values. He says that he is "God", because he no longer represents a man but God's values. He is no lunatic, he was indeed a savior to humanity. Stripping him of his divinity does not make him less noble.

Some has tried to defend creationism when it was under the attack of evolutionism. But the thing is evolutionism doesn't make God less of a creator! It reconciles, not contradicts.

And perhaps one day, some would also have to defend Jesus's divinity when it comes into question. But the trick is, these people who plan to derrogate Jesus by proving his mortality, let them win not! Whether or not Jesus was a man or God's son, it does not change what he did. God has always valued deeper things - the soul, the heart, the emotions - and not just the body or the name.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Online,

Q: How did you come to these conclusions?

A: My very own interpretation. :P Guided by my current conscience and integrity. Whether or not, ordained by God, I dare not say.

Prop. 8 Backers Blast Calif. Attorney General

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Delight,

I do question him a lot sometimes on the purpose of his creations. "Why do you create autistic people?" "Why are some born with facial disformity?"

The very blatant answer that came directly from my conscience was: "What's wrong with them? It is only the animalistic instincts in human that have caused society to persecute these people. See them in God's eyes, and you'd realize that they are no less of a human being than you." Same applies for all kinds of God's unique creation.

"We agree that God works with a purpose, what purpose would blurring gender lines do for society, other than to include homosexual and transgenders which works aginst His first command; "Go forth and multiply"?"

See how God's words are not supposed to be taken literally? Go forth and multiply? Then why did he create people who are infetile?

He told Adam and Eve to multiply and breed; it's part of his humanity project to expand the human species. In the 21st century, I am pretty sure we have enough expansion.

God works his miracles for all human beings in miraculous ways. Perhaps, he decided to make me gay and gave me the desire to adopt so that I would one day adopt this child from Palestine, whom He would want grow up here and not there. And today, I find that one of the most miraculous ways of his workings is that he has a way of making us "desire" to do the things that he wants us to do so that he doesn't need to force us to do his work.

Prop. 8 Backers Blast Calif. Attorney General

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Online,

That was just to show a counter argument for the following:

Premise 1 : "Marriage was a common thing during biblic times."
Premise 2: "Yet, the bible did not mention about same sex marriage."
Conclution: "Same sex marriage is not sanctioned by the bible."

Replace the word marriage with food and same sex marriage with fast food services, and you'd see how the above argument doesn't hold.

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:35 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

lipoftruth,

On the contrary, I used to be the kind of guy who would want the boardgame to have the fairest and most absolute rules. And very often, due to that, I end up ruining the game for everybody.

Now, I learn that the rules don't really matter, all that matters is that we have fun playing it.

Kind of like life, I used to believe that there has to be an absolute truth, and absolute law. And now I just realize that all God wants is for us to be happy!!

Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:48 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Online,

If you are yet to be familiar with the way I interpret the bible and the understanding I have with God, you'd start cringing upon my words like many have here. For that I beforehand apologize.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

First of all I do not think that Jesus was literally the "son" of God, though he is metaphorically, a child of God just like any of us. It is just that he decided to devote his life to preaching God's values, a devotion that many of us today cannot perform.

Jesus was someone who was preaching God's values which at that time wasn't very much accepted by general society. And through his devotion, he no longer represents himself as the son of Marry, since he has given up his worldly desire. He now represents the value in which God wishes him to preach. "I am the truth, I am the way, only through me, shall you reach God." Only through God's values, can you reach God. Not through rituals, for Jesus wasn't much of a ritualistic person was he; not through killing in his name unlike the crusaders; but through his values.

Many would deem what I say as blasphemy, more would suggest that I am twisting it to say whatever I want it to say. But more and more I realize that it is only through such way of reading God's words, can I reconcile scripture with creation - homosexuals, people of colour, other religion, women, etc.

Prop. 8 Backers Blast Calif. Attorney General

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:36 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Delight,

Thank you for sharing the story of your sister. I remember I once said to you: "If only you knew someone close to you whom is gay, you might think differently."

This is another friendly reminder from God to Bryan: "Do not attempt to assume other people's life and judge them from those assumptions because you know nothing about what they've been through, and nothing about what they believe in."

I am truly sorry.

Prop. 8 Backers Blast Calif. Attorney General

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:28 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Online,

The bible had so many laws on food consumption, yet there are no statements about fast food services, do they?

Instead of using computers or Internets, I decided to use food consumption, since many say that technology is not relevant during biblical times, I chose something more relevant and even more universal than marriage.

If given a choice, who did not want to attain food quickly back in the biblical times, but it's just that there weren't any means of doing so! Same goes for same-sex marriage, there were no means of performing one in a society that still hold on so tightly to gender roles.

We evolved from animals which had clear gender roles and short sighted survival instinct. But God gave us humans something extra - rationality, empathy, and far-sightedness. Doesn't mean that Jesus didn't preach about gender equality, it was not intended by God! Imagine if he did 2000 years ago, people would think that he is insane!

God does his work not by storms of revolution but by drizzles of change. He gives us time to slowly slowly leave our animalistic instincts, and adopt more and more of the values he intended for us to learn.

He first spoke against murder, a VERY common animalistic behavior. Then greed, selfishness - all stemming from our animalistic instincts.

Perhaps now it seems that he thinks that we are ready to abandon our instincts on gender roles? I wonder when shall come the day when we could reconcile different religions. I am afraid my lifespan does not compare to God's patience and won't be able to witness such beauty.

Prop. 8 Supporters Want Donors Anonymous

Bryan90 »

Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"There are very few homosexuals who reconciles their sexuality and faith..." And they do so to ease their conscience."

If you think that reconciling faith and sexuality is easy, you have absolutely no idea... My mom is a staunch christian, but my dad is a logical and secular man. I was brought up with a blend of both. My mom had a huge influence on me and hence I was quite religious when I was young, but when I got older, and acquired more secular knowledge, I found it harder and harder to reconcile with my faith. I have always had an attraction towards men, but didn't know that it was called homosexuality. When I discovered that around the age of 14, I rejected God. Using the very own wisdom he gave me, I used my secular knowledge, and logical thinking to refute the foundation of Christianity. That was easy. For I no longer need to believe in an exclusive God who irrationally rejects Muslims, Homosexuals, Buddhists, etc.

But that very same wisdom that helped me use my wisdom to deny his existence made me realize that without Him indeed, life was quite pointless for myself. And hence, I attempted to take my life away with a smile. Until today, nobody, myself and my family, knew how I got saved. I suspect it was because, some part inside me, I wanted to live.

Then there was an entire period where I kind of believed in his existence, but fought against him because I could not see his conscience nor his integrity through scripture.

And then after years of not giving up on me, I finally conceded. I remembered the children bible stories my mom used to read to me when I was young, and I realized that the stories in itself showed so much of his true values. It's only when the entire world befall on us, we find it hard to reconcile reality with faith. Which is why, until today, I believe that sometimes, a child can be a better preacher than a pastor for its purity.

I could have walked away with my worldly knowledge. Why do you think we even bother? Mind you, not many homosexuals I know are actually religious and most of them cringe when I tell them that I am. And it's even harder for me to find a partner who is. This is in no way the easy road.

Prop. 8 Backers Blast Calif. Attorney General

Bryan90 »

Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Forgiven Sin,

Notice Paul's first sentence: "It is good for a man not to marry, but since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband."

This in itself speaks of pragmatism. It's better to not X, but since Y is worse, and if X can prevent Y, do X.

And notice how Paul says that if through mutual consent, then it's best to remain abstinent. But if one sides lust for the other, then it's better for the other to abide since if not, one side might commit adultery. This fits perfectly into Paul's first sentence. It's better to not indulge in lustful sex, but since lustful sex within marriage has more emotional foundation then lustful sex outside marriage, it's better for one to happen then the other.

And it's also funny how the very wise Paul spoke of pragmatism, which some religious people ignore nowadays. For example abortion. If aborting a child can prevent you from ruining your life and your family's life and the child's life because you are a 14 year old, why not?

Prop. 8 Supporters Want Donors Anonymous

Bryan90 »

Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

"mike you can believe all you want but Scripture is clear your committed relationship with you partner is a sin and the road you are on is one that is wide and will lead to you alls destructions."

Tom, why are you calling Mike's road wide? There are very few homosexuals who reconciles their sexuality and faith, while there are a lot more who persecute based on the their interpreation of the bible? Whose road is wide and easy I wonder?

An educated homosexuals that I meet told me this: "Look at it this way. Those religious people who persecute us follow their holy books literally. And those holy books preach that only one religion would receive salvation. So if we only take Christianity, Islam and Judaism into consideration, there is a 2/3 chance that those people who persecute us would meet us in hell anyway."

See why I take the book for its value and not for its literal words? I believe that people of all religions, as long as they have the values of God, are embraced by God.

Prop. 8 Backers Blast Calif. Attorney General

Bryan90 »

Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Delight,

Actually I did question why I am so addicted to this site.

In a way, I am bored, and I love discussions and expressing my thoughts.

But in another way, I hope that perhaps one day, if a gay christian, his mom, or anyone who is suffering from the conflict of sexuality and faith, visits this posts, through some of our comments, we could help them reconcile their faith.

I feel absolutely sad when homosexuals reject God because they think that God rejects them. Well I for one believe that God does not reject us, and we shall not him. It's possible to reconcile faith and sexuality! Despair not!