Citizen, excellent answer as always! I’m not a scientist, but my spouse is. He works with genetics. He says that there is way too much evidence for the evolution not to believe it. He breeds new varieties of agricultural crops. He has to use the principles of the evolution to be successful on his job. Can you believe it, my spouse is a believer, who regularly goes to church. Darwin was sma...more

Citizen, excellent answer as always! I’m not a scientist, but my spouse is. He works with genetics. He says that there is way too much evidence for the evolution not to believe it. He breeds new varieties of agricultural crops. He has to use the principles of the evolution to be successful on his job. Can you believe it, my spouse is a believer, who regularly goes to church.

Darwin was smart enough to summarize his research and the observations of scientist who did similar research before him. It is not always that easy to process all the information available and summarize it into a conclusion.

Several believers asked me what I was doing on their Christian site. I can answer you. I enjoy reading Citizen’s, DoubtingThoma’s, and some others’ answers. Their answers are so smart, so precise. While most (but not all) believers of this site write some unsupported ridiculous garbage, like Annie for example.less

Continuation of my message to DannyPoo <Therefore, often my conclusion is that Atheists act morally in spite of Atheism, not because of. > I really don’t understand what you mean here. “Atheists act morally in spite of Atheism”? It doesn’t make sense to me. Atheism is just an opinion that there is no superpower. What does this would have anything to do with morality...more

Continuation of my message to DannyPoo

<Therefore, often my conclusion is that Atheists act morally in spite of Atheism, not because of. >

I really don’t understand what you mean here. “Atheists act morally in spite of Atheism”? It doesn’t make sense to me. Atheism is just an opinion that there is no superpower. What does this would have anything to do with morality? I guess you need to live in the society I grew up to understand it. I never was exposed to religion except in books or movies about the past times when my country was very religious.

My grandmothers were believers when they were children but not later. My parents or I have never been religious. Since we lived in a new developed area, we didn’t have any kind of churches for miles around. In other places, if they still had churches, most of them were turned into museums. We lived in a small town. Most people would lock their houses or apartments and put the key under the rug in front of the front door because it was convenient. A family could have one key. Everybody knew that, but we didn’t have any crime. People in all neighboring little towns did the same. But I doubt they did it in big cities. In very big cities people were not afraid to go for a stroll late at night. Crime was not a problem what so ever. I lived in that country for thirty years. Believe me it’s real. All people are atheists which only means they do not believe a superpower exists, and no problems with crime. I guess they found their own reasons to follow the moral principles. Please understand me right. I do not say that we didn’t have any crime what so ever. Yes, we also had crime, and prisons, and prisoners only it was so little that most people didn’t encounter it. Crime was not a problem.

<God is able to provide morals,> You don’t believe that a person can provide morals? It’s hard for me to understand.

<God not only provides it, but has the Authority to make the claim that the act of loving your neighbor is moral.> But ‘god’ is created by Man. How an imaginary character can be an authority?

<An Atheist can certianly teach "love you neighbor as yourself" Yet I am unable to conclude where they get this belief....> What belief? In what? So you do not believe that a person could be nice just because he or she was raised that way. While growing up a person was constantly told, taught by parents, school, society what was expected of him/her in terms of behavior, saw how those parents, teachers, and people behaved (which is more important than any words), his brain, his conscience formed. I find this approach is much better than create some character and then constantly try to keep a person in fear “God is watching… When you die ….” A good behavior should come from your heart and your conscience and not because someone is watching you….less

DannyPoo, <I was intending to say that Atheists claim that theistic moral principals are inferior, therefore atheists believe they don't need theistic moral principals.> Could you tell me what the theistic moral principals have that a society’s moral principles wouldn’t have? I know they would say something like “don’t kill”, “don’t steal”,...more

DannyPoo,

<I was intending to say that Atheists claim that theistic moral principals are inferior, therefore atheists believe they don't need theistic moral principals.>

Could you tell me what the theistic moral principals have that a society’s moral principles wouldn’t have? I know they would say something like “don’t kill”, “don’t steal”, “be nice to other people” and the like, in other words, common sense.

<Certainly if there are that few Atheists in America statistically than the group is simply not large enough to get an accurate picture of what Atheists are like morally when they are a majority.>

That’s true, I agree with that.

<I am sorry that people immediately conclude that because your an atheist that you have no morality.>

No, I was talking about bloggers. I was not talking about me personally. Nobody who knows me would ever say that. One Catholic priest (a very nice person) even said to me one time that I had more morality than some Christians.

<I believe many atheists are moral, yet I fail to understand why Atheists do Moral things when it is my opinion that the belief system fails to produce solid reasons for morality.>

When I read this comment, I was in complete shock. Honestly. I was speechless and was saying, “Wow, wow, wow.” I cannot even comprehend how a person could think so. No, you don’t need to apologies. You just expressed how you were feeling and understanding the situation of “Why would a person obey the rules?” You probably were born and grew up in a religious family in ‘most religious’ country. Your understanding of things formed while you were growing in this environment, with certain ideas put in your head. I was born and grew up in a totally different environment. I was born and grew up in an atheistic family in an atheistic country. You and I have different way of thinking. You cannot imagine that a person can follow moral principals without any fear of a god or other supernatural power. I feel now as if you and I came from different planets. I lived with very nice people around me, helpful, considering, caring. No of my relatives, friends, neighbors, teachers, other people around me believed in any kind of god or superpower. Everybody followed moral rules. I guess they did that because they knew if they were not nice to people around them, the people wouldn’t be nice to them in return. They didn’t need and they still don’t need any superpower supervision. Their conscience is their guide.less

Religion doesn’t bother me as long as it stays out of science’s and progress’s way. I’m glad that those times when churches burnt scientists on a stick like hotdogs are over. Believers, have you heard of Giordano Bruno (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/feb2000/brun-f16.shtml)? He was a philosopher and a scientist. Church burnt him alive like a hotdog because he didn’t...more

Religion doesn’t bother me as long as it stays out of science’s and progress’s way. I’m glad that those times when churches burnt scientists on a stick like hotdogs are over.

Believers, have you heard of Giordano Bruno (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/feb2000/brun-f16.shtml)? He was a philosopher and a scientist. Church burnt him alive like a hotdog because he didn’t want to give up the ‘idea’ he accepted from Galileo that ‘the earth is turning around the sun, and not the sun is turning around the earth’. You see, it was going against churches teachings, and church didn’t like it a bit. Well, you believe that the earth is turning around the sun, and not the other way, don’t you?

Believers, didn’t you learn a lesson? You cannot stop progress or science. And don’t choose and pick thinking, “Well, we like electricity, so scientists in this area, keep working. Well, we like the Internet, so scientists in this area, keep working. Well, biology, well genetics… these scientists came up with an ‘excuse’ for gay people. They are undermining our bible. According to our bible those gay people are ‘sinners’ and immoral, and science is trying to tell us that that is just the way the gay people were born. We don’t like it. It goes against our bible. So scientist in this area, stop working.”less

Dear Annie, I read your comment and felt like I arrived to a ‘battle field’. <Our place in this fight…> Whom are you ‘fighting’? The ‘lost’? Who is ‘lost’? Anybody who has a god different from yours, like Allah, Buddha, etc.? Or anybody who doesn’t have a god, not yours, not somebody else’s? Annie, you are ‘fighting’ an...more

Dear Annie,

I read your comment and felt like I arrived to a ‘battle field’.

<Our place in this fight…>
Whom are you ‘fighting’? The ‘lost’? Who is ‘lost’? Anybody who has a god different from yours, like Allah, Buddha, etc.? Or anybody who doesn’t have a god, not yours, not somebody else’s? Annie, you are ‘fighting’ an opinion. Didn’t your god tell you that every person was ‘made’ equally, that every person had the right to an opinion?

<I am in this world, but I am not of this world; >

Oh, boy, are you claiming that you are another god? Are you planning on performing any ‘miracles’? It’s much harder to do them these days. First of all, many people are much more educated than they were centuries ago, and you probably know that it is harder to fool an educated person than a poorly educated person or with no education what so ever, like most people were centuries ago. Secondly, many people have cameras and videos. When some people wanted to fake a UFO, scientists could tell from the picture that it was fake. Be aware of that if you are planning on performing ‘miracles’.

<we will be Jesus to those who don't know Him, but need Him so much!>

WHO needs ‘him’ so much? Don’t think that everybody wants what you want. People are different, and they might not want what you want. It’s just your opinion. Before deciding for others what they want, go and ask them. Didn’t I already tell you that I don’t need your or, for that matter, anybody else’s gods.

<We are in a spiritual battle here>

Annie, are you afraid of atheists? Do you think that they will take away from you your god? I can assure you that nobody is going to take your god from you if you are not willing to give it up.less

DoubtingThomas and Anarchy, I love your answers. They have so much sense. Dear Art, <In place of the Power of God the Church now depends on dinners,puppet shows and the like.> Time has changed. Church is trying hard to keep its parishioners in ‘place’. If it doesn’t do ‘dinners, puppet shows and the like’, they might loose even more adherents. <Wh...more

DoubtingThomas and Anarchy,

I love your answers. They have so much sense.

Dear Art,

<In place of the Power of God the Church now depends on dinners,puppet shows and the like.>

Time has changed. Church is trying hard to keep its parishioners in ‘place’. If it doesn’t do ‘dinners, puppet shows and the like’, they might loose even more adherents.

<When the Church gets back to doing things the Bible way,Thus Gods way things will change.>

Art, do you give a thought to the fact that the bible was written centuries ago? You have to work hard to find the connections between the bible and the contemporary time. Of course I’m not talking here about common sense morals of most societies like “don’t kill”, “don’t steal”, etc

Does your bible have any hints or say it openly and directly that a woman is just a servant of a man; a woman is nobody; she should be submissive to a man? Are you going to teach this and the like in your church classes? Or are you going to teach common sense morality that also exists in the society apart from any religion, yours or somebody else’s.

<And for those who beleive that God is just a matter of opinion,Wake up before it is to late.>

Yes, Art, ‘god’ is just a matter of opinion. You choose to believe it exists. I choose to believe that nobody’s god does.less

Dear DannyPoo, <To be fair, you must admit Atheists are not able to stand completely innocent in their actions towards human kind as well.> Yes, I agree. I’ve always said that no one or anything is perfect. People make mistakes. It’s human to make mistakes. It’s normal for people to make mistakes, but we should learn from our mistakes and try not to make the same mistake...more

Dear DannyPoo,

<To be fair, you must admit Atheists are not able to stand completely innocent in their actions towards human kind as well.>

Yes, I agree. I’ve always said that no one or anything is perfect. People make mistakes. It’s human to make mistakes. It’s normal for people to make mistakes, but we should learn from our mistakes and try not to make the same mistakes again and again.

<we must not follow Hasty Generalizations.>

I completely agree with this statement, and I want to add: we must be CAREFUL when we generalize. We shouldn’t use ‘ALL’ since practically anything has exceptions. We shouldn’t generalize from one case we see or hear. For example, Christianpost.com in its article ‘America most religious country…’ generalizes but it doesn’t use ‘ALL’. After the poll it generalized that women were more religious than men. That doesn’t mean that ‘all’ women are believers.

<In the case of the argument by Chocolate, his argument appears to be:

Some Christians do not follow their claimed theistic moral principals,
Therefore, theistic moral principles are inferior, we don't need them.>

You are right about ‘appears’. People see things differently. I never said “we don’t need moral principles”. Do you see the difference? Many different religions have about the same ‘theistic’ moral principles that are not that much different from a society’s moral principles where those religions exist. A society apart from religion has its moral principles. What I said was: I don’t need a god or a bible to tell me common sense. People live in a society, and they make rules of behavior. They don’t claim that someone else made the rules of behavior for them. My point is that we don’t need to create a character in order to be good people.

<His other basic fallacy is one he is applying to himself
Percentage wise, fewer atheists are criminals in America.
Therefore, Atheists are more moral.>

You said it. I never stated that “Atheists are more moral”. You questioned atheists’ morality. I gave you statistics (numbers), and you concluded this based on statistics.

If you read all of my comments on this site but not necessarily on this particular web page, you should have seen that I said earlier: There are a lot of good people. Some of them are believers, and some of them are not. There are bad people out there too. Some of them are believers, and some of them are not. I have many friends. Some of them are believers, and some of them are not.

I’m always puzzled: as soon as a conversation begins about a god, many believers in a hurry switch to ‘morality’ claiming that ‘those nonbelievers have no morality’. I can say that it’s true not just for the believers of this country. As I stated earlier, I do not see the connection between ‘morality’ and the belief in a god.less

Citizen, I love especially this part of your answer to abd: <The scientists you cite were indeed religious, but they used the scientific method to make their discoveries, and then to have them verified by other scientists, not their faith. Moreover, they did not apply their professional training to every area of their lives, or they wouldn't have used faith.> That’s exactly ...more

Citizen, I love especially this part of your answer to abd:

<The scientists you cite were indeed religious, but they used the scientific method to make their discoveries, and then to have them verified by other scientists, not their faith. Moreover, they did not apply their professional training to every area of their lives, or they wouldn't have used faith.>

That’s exactly right. I completely agree. I know personally a few scientists who believe in a god, but they also believe in evolution, genetics, etc. When they go to work, they leave there faith at home. They do not mix their faith with science otherwise they wouldn’t be scientists, would they?

<The elevation of science to god-like status and the emphasis on genetics as the cause of sinful behavior.>

This is the funniest place in the article. Even scientists who believe in a god will laugh at this statement not mentioning scientist who do not believe in a godless

Dear DannyPoo, Christianpost.com posted an article titled ‘America the most religious country among its allies’ (http://www.christianpost.com/article/20050606/21140_Poll:_America_Most_Religious_Among_its_Allies.htm): America is the most religious country among its allies with only two percent of its citizens saying they do not believe in God, according to a recent Associated Press ...more

Dear DannyPoo,

Christianpost.com posted an article titled ‘America the most religious country among its allies’ (http://www.christianpost.com/article/20050606/21140_Poll:_America_Most_Religious_Among_its_Allies.htm):

America is the most religious country among its allies with only two percent of its citizens saying they do not believe in God, according to a recent Associated Press poll.

So, 98% of Americans are religious people, and we should assume with a lot of ‘theistic Moral elements’ in them. Am I right? And 2 % of Americans, we can say, are atheists without ‘theistic Moral elements’. Right?

Now, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm) in 2006 there were over two million (2,245,189 to be exact) prisoners held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails. Do you think all of these prisoners were atheists with no ‘theistic Moral elements’? What percentage of prisoners do you think were atheists with no ‘theistic Moral elements’?

The Federal Bureau of Prisons has statistics on religious affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of inmates per religion category:
Catholic - 29,267(39.164%)
Protestant- 26,162 (35.008%)
Muslim - 5,435 (7.273%)
Jewish - 1,325 (1.773%)
Church of Christ - 1,303 (1.744%)
Buddhist - 882 (1.180%)
Adventist - 621(0.831%)
Mormon - 298 (0.399%)
Scientology - 190 (0.254%)
Atheist - 156 (0.209%)
Hindu - 119 (0.159%)
And so on, go to the site (http://holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm) to see the whole table if you are interested.

Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%). Are you surprised? Or don’t want to believe the numbers? What do you think these believers with a lot of ‘theistic Moral elements’ in them are doing in prison?

See? There are plenty of criminals who are believers. I don’t believe that morality could be measured by whether that person believes in an imaginary character or not. I don’t want my son to be nice to other people because he is in FEAR that otherwise ‘god’ will punish him after he dies. I want my son to be nice to other people because it’s the right thing to do; it’s a good thing to do, because you should treat others the way you want to be treated. It’s common sense. I don’t need a god or a bible to tell me that.less

Dear DannyPoo, What ‘theistic Moral elements’ are you talking about? Have you heard of the scandal of clergy sexually abusing children? Do you know that Church pays millions of dollars in court to defend its ‘holy’ clergy filled with ‘theistic Moral elements’ from head to toe? Take into account that Church worked very hard to keep it a secret, but there have been s...more

Dear DannyPoo,

What ‘theistic Moral elements’ are you talking about? Have you heard of the scandal of clergy sexually abusing children? Do you know that Church pays millions of dollars in court to defend its ‘holy’ clergy filled with ‘theistic Moral elements’ from head to toe? Take into account that Church worked very hard to keep it a secret, but there have been so many cases of this kind that it was unable to hide it from the world. They kept popping up all over the place.

BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/130456.stm
The Roman Catholic Church in the American city of Dallas has agreed to pay nearly $31million to 12 former altar boys who were sexually abused by a former priest.

The Church, which had earlier agreed a multi-million dollar settlement with three other claimants, had been ordered to pay the victims nearly $120 million by a court last year.

FACTnet: http://www.factnet.org/?p=140
Catholic Church pays 660 million dollars to victims of its religious abuses.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/05/news/abuse.php
Church pays $100 million over abuse.

http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/page120-Garchow-Moloney.html
Church pays big money to lawyers to fight criminal charges.

Are you talking about these ‘theistic Moral elements’?

Let’s look at Chuck Colson. He cheated. He lied. He served his term in prison for that. Now he is a prominent religious figure…. preaching ME morality? How not to lie and cheat?less

Dear Art, <chocolate, I am very hurt in my heart for you. I feel a great sorrow in my heart for you after reading your post.> That’s your choice. You choose to feel that way. I didn’t mean to hurt anybody. You expressed your opinion about certain things. That’s how you see the world. I expressed my opinion about the same things. As you can tell I don’t see the worl...more

Dear Art,

<chocolate, I am very hurt in my heart for you. I feel a great sorrow in my heart for you after reading your post.>

That’s your choice. You choose to feel that way. I didn’t mean to hurt anybody. You expressed your opinion about certain things. That’s how you see the world. I expressed my opinion about the same things. As you can tell I don’t see the world the same way you see it. I consider that expressing my opinion of how I see the world is very appropriate here since this web page is discussing atheists. Wouldn’t you want to know what atheists think and why they think that way? If you don’t want to know it, then why are you discussing them on this web page in the first place?

<I know that God loves you and gave Himself for you even as He did for mankind.>

Sorry, I don’t buy it. It doesn’t make sense. How a person in this situation can give his or her life for mankind? I understand when a certain country is attacked and many people of that country would give their lives to save their generation from being killed or turn into slaves. But I don’t see the ‘danger for mankind’ for which that legendary man gave his life. And for that matter how can one person save mankind by just dying? Isn’t it a little exaggeration-imagination?

<I know that you and I have an enemy that hates us>

Oh, no, Art. I don’t hate you. You like the idea of a god. It makes you feel good about yourself and the world. It doesn’t hurt me in anyway. Why would I hate you?

<satan hates us and attempts to destroy us>

Don’t forget, Art, ‘Satan’ is just another character from the same fairy tale. Get rid of that ‘bad’ character. You will feel better. This way you will get rid of the idea that someone or something ‘is going to destroy you’. You will get a peace of mind. It’s worth trying.less

Dear Annie, <my belief in God and my love for Him, is not imagination.> No one doubts that. You really believe and you really love. Except you love and believe in a character made up by Man. That character was put in your head when you were a child. You didn’t create your god. It was done before you. You just accepted it. <I know that He is the Creator,> Annie, you t...more

Dear Annie,

<my belief in God and my love for Him, is not imagination.>

No one doubts that. You really believe and you really love. Except you love and believe in a character made up by Man. That character was put in your head when you were a child. You didn’t create your god. It was done before you. You just accepted it.

<I know that He is the Creator,>

Annie, you take too much on yourself. No one knows that, otherwise, it would be a fact and, therefore, would be studied at schools. But it’s NOT a FACT. It’s just a BELIEF which means there is no evidence for that and every person has a choice whether to believe it or not.

<Man has rebelled against God,>

This is how you see it. And which god are you talking about? Are you talking just about your god or other people’s gods too? I bet only your god exists for you. Other people’s gods don’t exist for you, like Allah, Buddha, etc. Am I right?

<one day when you stand before Him as we all shall. You will remember this conversation.>

Annie, ‘remember’ is one of many activities of the brain. The brain does ‘remembering’, ‘seeing’, ‘hearing’, ‘learning’, ‘finding out’, ‘analyzing’, ‘processing’ information, etc. When you die, your brain dies. A dead brain cannot do its usual activities. I’m afraid when you die or for that matter anybody dies, you or anybody else (and I’m not an exception) won’t be able to ‘see’, ‘hear’, ‘learn’, ‘remember’, etc. Can you imagine when you die and ‘go to your heaven’, you leave your eyes, your ears, your speaking organs, and, the most important, your brain behind? How are going to ‘remember’ anything without your brain, when your brain became inactive? I hope it’s not too scientific for you.less

Jimmywitz <I really don't worry about atheism.> And you shouldn’t. Do you worry about Islam? It doesn’t look like you worry about Buddhism. Do you worry about any other religion that is different from yours? Atheism or any religion is just an opinion about the world. Everybody has the right for his/her own opinion. That’s the way they see the world around them. ...more

Jimmywitz <I really don't worry about atheism.>

And you shouldn’t. Do you worry about Islam? It doesn’t look like you worry about Buddhism. Do you worry about any other religion that is different from yours? Atheism or any religion is just an opinion about the world. Everybody has the right for his/her own opinion. That’s the way they see the world around them.

<After all, it seems to be merely a little diversion along the way to a greater understanding of the presence of God's love in our lives.>

Talking about diversion! I decided to look into RELIGION to see ‘What kind of animal is that that fascinates that many people?’, and found out that there are tons of different religions with their own gods, traditions, rituals, etc.less

Dear Annie, <Many people don't want to believe in God because somewhere in their life they go hurt (by a person(s) ) and they blame GOD; and so they're angry with Him, so better to believe that He doesn't exist.> Oh, no! Dear Annie, you are talking about your personal experience. People have different experiences in their lives. I’ve never been angry with something...more

Dear Annie,

<Many people don't want to believe in God because somewhere in their life they go hurt (by a person(s) ) and they blame GOD; and so they're angry with Him, so better to believe that He doesn't exist.>

Oh, no! Dear Annie, you are talking about your personal experience. People have different experiences in their lives. I’ve never been angry with something that doesn’t exist in reality but rather in some people’s heads. No one ever put a seed of religion in my head when I was growing up. Annie, when someone hurt me, the idea of a god has never entered my mind. I would blame that person for hurting me and also his or her parents for not teaching that person how he or she should treat real people around him or her. But in your situation (and you are not the only one in this situation) I shouldn’t blame your parents. Unfortunately, for the reason I don’t know they couldn’t raise you. In this case I would blame the environment in which that person who hurt me was raised up.

<He just does not exist for them!> That’s right. Yours or somebody else’s god does not exist in my head. I rely only on myself, my relatives, my friends, and many people around me. There are a lot of good people no matter whether they are believers or not.

<If folks want to believe that there is no God, that is their choice;> Yes, that’s exactly right. Every person chooses to believe or not to believe. And they also choose what to believe and what not to believe.less

Dear Annie, a lot of what we feel depends on the circumstances we are in. <Over the last ten years, HE has so change me and my life> I’m very happy for you that something changed your life for better. It really doesn’t matter whether that ‘something’ is real or just your imagination. The most important thing is that you are happy and your heart is not empty anymore. I...more

Dear Annie, a lot of what we feel depends on the circumstances we are in.

<Over the last ten years, HE has so change me and my life>
I’m very happy for you that something changed your life for better. It really doesn’t matter whether that ‘something’ is real or just your imagination. The most important thing is that you are happy and your heart is not empty anymore. I can’t imagine growing up without my mom, my dad, and my sister. You lived in a foster family who probably were not nice to you (you hated them for something, right?). My heart goes out to you. I guess I was a lucky one who grew up in a nice family, in a nice house, with good food, good friends. I was happy with everything I had. Without any gods I loved my mom, I loved my dad, I loved my sister, I loved my friends. I loved my town. I loved my school. God didn’t have any room in my life. My heart was never empty. I never was a rebellious child. I never did drugs or booze. I never considered of running away from home. Why would anyone to want to run away from a loving family?

<I tried everything in life to fill the ache in my empty heart, food, drugs, booze, children, marriage, and nothing worked.> Annie, nothing works by itself. YOU need to work at it. I have a happy marriage and a loving child. I do not expect that my marriage is going to work by itself. I do not rely on any gods either. I work at my marriage, and that’s why it works. Of course your spouse needs to work at it too.

<One day I prayed,> You see, Annie, I don’t need to pray for anything. I have everything I need and want. This is my personal experience. It looks like your life cannot be a happy one without a god, and my life is just fine without any gods.

<when you really want to know Him and find Him, you will!> That’s right, Annie. I completely agree with you. When you really want something and work hard to get it, you will get it. Although to ‘see’ something that doesn’t exist also depends a lot on a particular person’s born ability of being able hypnotized.

So, when your god came to you, did you ask it ‘Where have you been all this time?’ ‘Why did you take my parents away?’ ‘What did I do wrong to deserve this kind of life?’ ‘Why do other people have decent lives when they don’t even believe you exist?’?

<HE CREATED US!!!> Annie, this is how you FEEL it, but there is a lot of reasonable explanations of when, how, and why WE CREATED GODS.less

Crossfire <Hard evidence does exist. And it tells me that God is very real > Wow, I’m dying from curiosity. What is that ‘hard evidence’ (I don’t count feelings as ‘hard evidence’) that tells you that your god exists? Could you share your ‘hard evidence’ with me? <I hope one day that you'll have the heart to look for him too and find Him...more

Crossfire <Hard evidence does exist. And it tells me that God is very real >

Wow, I’m dying from curiosity. What is that ‘hard evidence’ (I don’t count feelings as ‘hard evidence’) that tells you that your god exists? Could you share your ‘hard evidence’ with me?

<I hope one day that you'll have the heart to look for him too and find Him yourself.>

I’m afraid it’s too late. I grew up. I’m too big to believe in fairy tales.less

Crossfire <I would like you to consider ideas like those presented in the movie "Matrix" which may cause us to question if the physically observable things are as reliable and trustworthy as we believe.> I haven’t watched “Matrix”, but I’m just curious. Are you talking about special effects done with computer software or are you talking about hallucinations?...more

Crossfire <I would like you to consider ideas like those presented in the movie "Matrix" which may cause us to question if the physically observable things are as reliable and trustworthy as we believe.>

I haven’t watched “Matrix”, but I’m just curious. Are you talking about special effects done with computer software or are you talking about hallucinations? Are you trying to tell me that when I see my desk and when I touch it and feel it, my desk might be no more than just my hallucination? So, hard evidence doesn’t exist for you? Do you believe that hard evidence exists only for atheists?

<I haven't come across any evidence that proves that God doesn't exist.>

What kind of evidence were you looking for that would support “God doesn’t exist”? When someone tells me that ‘something’ exists, I would try to find that ‘something’. But what do you look for to prove that that ‘something’ doesn’t exist? Wouldn’t you look for that ‘something’ to prove that it exists?less

JC <The above article is anti-atheistic because it is written by a Christian for Christians.> What difference does it make FOR whom it is written? For Christians or not the fact stays the same, anybody would want to know the TRUHT, the reality.. <You must look at it again and realize what kind of site it was written for or adapted for.> Are you trying to tell here that Christians do...more

JC <The above article is anti-atheistic because it is written by a Christian for Christians.> What difference does it make FOR whom it is written? For Christians or not the fact stays the same, anybody would want to know the TRUHT, the reality..

<You must look at it again and realize what kind of site it was written for or adapted for.> Are you trying to tell here that Christians don’t need the truth? ‘Look, this is a Christian site! Christians would be happy with a lie as long as it agrees with their belief, and, therefore, makes them feel good.’

<I'm sorry, I can't follow people who don't know where they are.> Well, I already told you many times that I know very well where I am, but it looks like you choose what to believe. You believe only in what you WANT to believe.

<You see the word atheist and you think you're home.> Boy, you are so possessive! You are ‘home’ when you create your own site. Then you can make rules for your own site who can visit it and who cannot. I don’t understand why you are so obsessed with “whose site it is”. This site is for ANYBODY! Anybody can read or make comments on this site. Can you show me the rules that state that I’m not supposed to visit, read or make comments on this site?

<You have decided you've won the war> WAR? What war are you talking about? Let say, one person says, “The three headed person exists.” The other says, “No, three headed people do not exist.” The first one says, “Yes, he does exist. I saw him in my dream the other night.” The second person says, “It’s not a proof for me.” Do you call this a war? I would call it “a discussion” but not a war by any means. When you start killing people (PEOPLE not ideas) during your discussion, then it will turn into a war.

<We Christians, we do believe we've won,> ??? You know, many, many Muslims in Asia believe that Americans in Iraq are fighting Islam. They really believe that Americans want to get rid of Islam. Do you think so too? Muslims are fighting for their religion with Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is what they think of the war in Iraq. They really do fight and die, but you are just imagining a ‘war’ for Christianity. Wake up! All wars for Christianity are over centuries ago. Christianity was forced on many countries with blood, but these wars are over.

<How do you win a war if you don't know what the war is about or who is fighting who? > Boy, you have more in your head than just a god, a Satan, or devil. You also have a WAR in your head.

<So, remember, this site is called Christianpost.com? > So? What difference does it make? Even Christianpost.com should present true and not distorted pictures of reality.

<What if the Anti-Christ asks you what you were doing here among us Christians, what will you say to him? I wonder. > It seems to me you don’t understand that this site is created by a certain group of people for ANYBODY unless you can show me the rules where it states otherwise.less

JClovesJahweh <we know what you are up to,> You THINK you do but don’t kid yourself into believing it. You don’t. <but remember, we will not stop telling you that you are sinners,> Again what is a sin and what is not, is just an opinion. What is a sin for you, might not be considered as a sin for another person. <we will not stop telling you this world is doomed,&g...more

JClovesJahweh <we know what you are up to,> You THINK you do but don’t kid yourself into believing it. You don’t.

<but remember, we will not stop telling you that you are sinners,> Again what is a sin and what is not, is just an opinion. What is a sin for you, might not be considered as a sin for another person.

<we will not stop telling you this world is doomed,> Yes, we’ve been hearing it for centuries. There is nothing new here.

<Do you know where you are now?> Yes, I’m still there where people are discussing atheists. Don’t you want to know what the atheists are really up to? I think when you finally understand what the atheists are up to, maybe you won’t be so scared of them that they will come and ‘get you’ or even worse ‘kill you’. This is absurd! How can you think that? I feel sorry for you. Enjoy your life while you are alive. You might not have another one.less

JClovesJahweh <I am not telling you to get lost, I am asking you if you ARE lost and know not where YOU are.> Oh, yes, I know where I am. I am on a site that discusses atheists. How can you discuss people without knowing their point of view? Or since you already ‘know’ that atheists are ‘wrong’, you do not wish to hear their point of view? <This is not my site, it ...more

JClovesJahweh <I am not telling you to get lost, I am asking you if you ARE lost and know not where YOU are.> Oh, yes, I know where I am. I am on a site that discusses atheists. How can you discuss people without knowing their point of view? Or since you already ‘know’ that atheists are ‘wrong’, you do not wish to hear their point of view?

<This is not my site, it is however a believer's site, in case you hadn't noticed.> Yes, I did notice it, but I truly didn’t know I was not supposed to take part in the discussion of atheists. I didn’t know that this site is created and supported only for believers. Where does it say? Do they specify there which religions are allowed to use this site?

<I have noticed, however, that unbelievers … claim it as their own> How do they claim that a particular site is their own? I would say that any site is for anybody unless the creator of a site makes the site accessible only through a username and password to privent others from entering it if it was not meant for them.

<and attempt to make the Christians leave, using insults to them, their God, and their religion.> Insults? You find the atheists’ point of view on life insulting? I don’t find the believers’ point of view on life insulting for me. That’s interesting. It proves again that we see life differently. What is insulting for you, might not be insulting for another person. Isn’t it interesting?

<I have never gone to an atheistic forum and attempted to take it over or convert people there. Doing so is impolite.> I didn’t know that telling people your point of view (especially when they are talking about you) is impolite. Who started to talk about atheists on the believers’ site? When the atheists are trying to chime in to tell you that you do not know the topic well enough to talk about it, you accuse them of trying to ‘convert’ you. That’s not fair.

<Fact is, atheists are quite boring to me since they have not the guts to try God and find out if he exists.> That’s another unfair statement. It’s not true. You see, atheists tried to find god or gods (yours or somebody else’s), but they just couldn’t find them anywhere.
<A Christian can pray before a mountain and it would remove itself and throw itself into the sea and you will still not believe,> That’s right! I’m not a little kid anymore. I don’t believe in fairytales. I grew up.less