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Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
FVThinker's Comments
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U.S. Appeals Court Votes 3-0 Against Okla. Commandments Display
FVThinker »Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:29 pm
Agree: 3 
Disagree: 1
@Weekenderman: You state you have a "bachelor of science degree in theology"?!?! That seems an oxymoron or you school uses the term 'science' veeeerrrryy loosely.
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WOW!! Garageguy's one line saying he agrees with my post gets flagged as inappropriate!?!?!?! A bit thin skinned aren't we?
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Why would someone write such a letter to someone as one-noted and biased as Mr. Graham? Either the letter writer wanted to hear a specific answer or Mr. Graham concocted the letter to further his agenda. I suspect the latter.
Still questioning is good. One should always question their motives. As a non-believer, I do good/moral/ethical things because they are the right thing to do. I endeavor to do the right things for the right reasons. Religion, too often, is about doing the right things for the wrong reasons and [tragically] about doing the wrong things for the right reasons. -
Atheist Soldier Sues Army for Religious Discrimination
FVThinker »Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:07 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
matthewr1 said:
<blockquote>Sounds like a sniffling athiest just wants some green to make the piggy bank fat. </blockquote>
It is my understanding that there are no monetary, punitive damages sought by Mr. Hall. You come of as disparaging non-believers out of hand...it's not flattering to you or believers. -
Atheist Soldier Sues Army for Religious Discrimination
FVThinker »Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:38 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
@believer
Hall got permission to hold a private meeting of non-believers. A sargent Welborn (sp?) attended the meeting, stood up, interrupted, prostelytized, said they were unpatriotic, and threatened to have them drummed out of the service (that is my recollection, you can find more detail on line).
This was a private meeting, they weren't out going barrak to barrak 'stealing souls' -
Atheist Soldier Sues Army for Religious Discrimination
FVThinker »Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:23 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
<blockquote>"igh says: there are those that hate God and want to destroy all references to him"</blockquote>
You go igh!!! You just quote some scripture to go along with that and you'll knock 'em dead!! :-) -
Atheist Soldier Sues Army for Religious Discrimination
FVThinker »Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:01 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
I just looked up the status of this case. The deadline for the defense department was midnight last night to file their response to the charges. With several hours to go, defense department attorneys filed a motion to dismiss.
http://christianfighterpilot.com/articles/files/dismissmemo.pdf
Of course dismissal is the first avenue that ANY lawyer should try, so that is no surprise and cannot really provide any insight as to the merits of the case. I cannot comment on the merits of their arguments for dismissal; but at first blush (as a lay-person) it doesn't seem very convincing. -
Atheist Soldier Sues Army for Religious Discrimination
FVThinker »Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:46 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 0
It will be an interesting case. I have been following it for some time but not much new is publicly available. At present, it is only speculation as to whether Mr. Hall's assertions have merit.
If they are true; it is quite damning for military leadership (and the military Christians involved). Few things would frighten me more than having the worlds largest military machine in the hands of those claiming their orders are coming from God. -
Electing Anti-Evolution President Will Lead Nation to Ruin, Says Scientist
FVThinker »Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:14 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
LOL BobCu!!! It just goes to show how stupid some of the arguments I hear are!
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Electing Anti-Evolution President Will Lead Nation to Ruin, Says Scientist
FVThinker »Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:56 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
BobCu said: "Everyone knows Baptist ministers like Governor Huckabee are biology experts and know more about biology than any biologist."
WOW! At first I thought you were being sarcastic. I am dumbfounded that those word would knowingly pass your lips!
A question for you BobCu ... what is your position on higher education. Is acedemic schooling a good thing or a bad thing? Is more acedemic schooling (college, graduate school) a good thing or a bad thing? -
I will leave with this:
SP said: "In conclusion, I think it is the most reasonable position to assume that atheism is no prescription to the world’s ills ...."
I absolutely agree. Atheism means nothing and can do nothing and is arguably a silly, vacant label. Just as not believing in Zeus defines nothing of a person values, nor does not believing in the God of Abraham. Too often these on-line discussions are lacking in much nuance and various parties probably do not get a clear picture of one another. Often (particularly on this topic) the discussion focuses on one thing to the exclusion of another.
I support and defend religious liberty. I support and defend any person's right to believe what they want. I support and defend our secular Constitution (with the deistic reference to a creator, not the theistic reference to God or Jesus). I quite simply am motivated to keep our government secular for the benefit of all.
Best to you SP. May you have a healthy and prosperous new year. -
Electing Anti-Evolution President Will Lead Nation to Ruin, Says Scientist
FVThinker »Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:29 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 3
maranatha7593 writes: "Electing an Anti-God president will lead this nation to ruin."
The facts would beg to differ. A Creighton University study (a Christian university) showed clearly that the prosperous democracies with the LEAST amount of religion had the FEWEST common societal ills (i.e. violent crime, teen pregancy and many other measures)
"It ain't what you don't know that get's you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - - - Mark Twain -
Clarification: I originally said "I am not an anti-theist (I have nothing against the person), but I do have a problem with the mode of thought."
I should have said: I am not an anti-theist (I have nothing against the person), but I do have a problem with the mode of thought when it goes beyond the personal and is inflicted upon society through public policy and abhorant actions. -
Part 2 of 2
Seedplanter said “I am not a scientist, but I am acquainted with the debates and know enough to be able to say that atheism adheres to just as much religious dogmatism as any other formal religion.”
Here is how Merriam-Webster defines ‘dogmatism’: 1 : positiveness in assertion of opinion especially when unwarranted or arrogant 2 : a viewpoint or system of ideas based on insufficiently examined premises.
This is quite the opposite of good science. Every non-believer that I know would readily change their position should compelling evidence be presented. The scientific community would be giddy with excitement if some new, compelling evidence came forth. In fact major honors would be bestowed on whoever brought real evidence of an intelligent creator. There is no incentive to keep real knowledge suppressed in the scientific
Seedplanter said: “In all that Lennon and Stalin did to eliminate faith in the name of progress…”
The tried and true theistic ‘trump card’. These atrocities were not perpetrated in the name of atheism. These regimes suppressed anything that competed with their demand for a singular allegiance to their regime. There were a whole lot of things wrong with those regimes; most importantly, they were missing “We the people”. To blame it all on non-belief is a not a well thought out argument even though, anecdotally, it is convincing to many.
Seedplanter said: “If naturalistic evolution is true, then why should not all of its social adaptations and evolutionary constructs be equally esteemed including that of radical religious fundamentalists with bombs strapped to their backs?”
Interesting argument. The [simplified] way I look at that as follows: Is there a victim? (clearly yes) Is the action universally perceived as appropriate (clearly no). Is there any evidence that their motivation (their belief system) valid or true? (clearly no). Hence their actions are wrong.
A further tangent to this topic of right and wrong is to consider how we legitimately learn that something is right or wrong (the ‘ugly’ moral relativism). Before we knew that microbes existed and figured out their role in disease, surgeons did not deem it necessary to wash their hands prior to operating. That was not immoral because they lacked that knowledge but were trying to help the patient. If a surgeon today did not wash their hands, it would be considered immoral. Our morality is relative and always will be relative to what our best knowledge is at the time. Prior to science shedding light on origins and sociology, our best knowledge might well have been that women were inferior and other races/creeds were inferior or deserving of death. We have moved on from the dark ages. Morality SHOULD be relativistic. -
Part 1 of 2
seedplanter said: “You might as well say; I don’t believe in God, therefore creation could not have happened. I don’t believe in miracles, so therefore creation is not a viable position. Everyone has presuppositions that interpret the neutral data, it is really quite elementary.”
That is not an accurate translation. How about “I see no evidence for God, therefore I seek knowledge about our origins.” I was referring to the mode of argument that I do not respect. Just because something is not ‘A’, does not make ‘B’ true. Assuming ‘B’ on insufficient evidence merely extinguishes inquiry…the think our species excels at. [note that, as someone educated in the sciences, ‘evidence’ has to come from the empirical method.]
Seedplanter said: “if you do not have enough faith to believe in the Bible prophets, it does not mandate atheism, neither does evolution”
Your right. I find deism a perfectly legitimate position. Science, at present, does not have any deeply satisfying theories (and zero evidence) of anything that might have happened prior to the Big Bang. Deism also has the admirable trait of not claiming to know the mind of that creator. Hence cannot be used to demonize segments of society or commit violence in the ‘name’ of the creator. Atheism is a rather silly label. Do we have a name for people who don’t believe in Zeus? Does not believing in Zeus define anything about a person. ‘Atheist’, when deconstructed merely means ‘without theism’. I am not an anti-theist (I have nothing against the person), but I do have a problem with the mode of thought.
Continued … -
Electing Anti-Evolution President Will Lead Nation to Ruin, Says Scientist
FVThinker »Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:39 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
ifeelfine72 writes "Lots of scientists believe in both God and in evolution."
The cold hard facts are different. Of the National Academy of Sciences over 70% state that have no supernatural belief (atheists). Another 23% claim no belief in any personal god (deists). That leaves only 7% of them being theists. If you look at those with an area of expertise that actually has them confront the questions (i.e. biologists and cosmologists), the are almost universally non-believers. I believe that it was mathemeticians that had the highest level of supernatural belief. I don't think 7% constitutes "a lot" ... and the trend downward for the believing segment sharply down. -
maranatha7593,
Given all the conflicting stories in the bible, God must be schizophrenic. Chapters 1 and 2. Were Adam and Eve created at the same time or did Eve come from Adam's rib?
You say that the bible's "standards of right and wrong have proved to be best for the human race." Hmmm. Killing non-believers and disobedient children is in that list too then? -
Electing Anti-Evolution President Will Lead Nation to Ruin, Says Scientist
FVThinker »Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:23 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
tgender,
Evolution has nothing to do with how life started. Absolutely nothing. Evolution by natural selection ONLY speaks to how the complexity of life came to pass once the first replicating entity came into existance.
Abiogenesis (how life started) is a completely separate discussion. But on that topic, just because science does not know just how life came to pass, does not give the Christian narrative validity. Just because a cookie is NOT chocolate chip does not make it, by default, make it a shortbread cookie. -
Electing Anti-Evolution President Will Lead Nation to Ruin, Says Scientist
FVThinker »Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:16 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
maranatha7593 writes: "Electing an Anti-God president will lead this nation to ruin."
The facts would beg to differ. A Creighton University study (a Christian university) showed clearly that the prosperous democracies with the LEAST amount of religion had the FEWEST common societal ills (i.e. violent crime, teen pregancy and many other measures)
"It ain't what you don't know that get's you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - - - Mark Twain -
Electing Anti-Evolution President Will Lead Nation to Ruin, Says Scientist
FVThinker »Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:33 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 0
Part 2
His observations on the Beagle (of which I only scratched) were compelling on their own. The scientific ‘holy grail’, however, is when completely unrelated fields of science confirm the predictions of the original theory. Enter our discovery of DNA. Once we understood the role of this molecule and had the technology to look at it closely, biologists made a *prediction*. That prediction was that, if Darwinian Natural Selection were true, then the various species’ DNA would closely related to where they fit on the evolutionary tree. DNA jived with evolution exactly.
Darwin *predicted* that there would be many more precursor species to those that he observed. Of course archeology has unearthed gazillions of fossils the perfectly supported evolution.
Darwin also postulated that the changes he theorized could only occur over vast time frames but had no way to predict or test what that time frame was. Enter nuclear physics and our tremendous understanding of the behavior of matter. Radio-Carbon dating showed that these processes took BILLIONS of years. That offered further support of evolution.
Holy Bible: Mosaic
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