gd, you've taken a stand and you're not going to back off no matter what, such as in "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts". Good luck with that when you stand in front of God and try to explain that.

Also, Usage Notes: English Words used in KJV: servant 10 child 7 son (Christ) 2 son 1 manservant 1 maid 1 maiden 1 young man 1 [Total Count: 24] 1) a child, boy or girl 1a) infants, children 2) servant, slave 2a) an attendant, servant, spec. a king's attendant, minister For Synonyms see entry &

Greek Strong's Number: 3816 Transliteration: pais Phonetic Pronunciation: paheece Root: perhaps from Cross Reference: TDNT - 5:636,759 Part of Speech: n m] Vines Words: Boy, Child, Children, Childbearing, Childish, Childless, Maid, Maiden, Maidservant, Manservant, Menservants, Servant

LOL, had to look it up, just learned a new word. Also descriptive of gd I would say, certainly at times anyway!

pais can be a child, also a servant, man servant, maid, and several others. In Luke, the word used is duolos, which is a servant.

jv - it does rather boggle the mind doesn't it, the lengths some on here have gone to try to make the Bible say something other than what it does.

gd, would you expect a roman centurion to order his soldiers to clean his house, cook his meals, do his shopping, empty his slop jar? Surely you can't be serious. You're really pushing the envelope here, not exactly a logical progression in your supposed "context" argument.

"GMG, you have to study pederasty in the ancient world to understand the usage of pais in that instance." Really? I believe we have had some discussions along these lines previously gd. Are you trying to tell me that because pederasty was practiced during this time, that it is an absolute given that this servant MUST have been a child lover on that basis alone?

Dictionary.com: homosexual: a person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex. gay: a homosexual person, especially a male. Just a different way of saying the same thing gd. Homosexuality is defined by sexual urges. And would you please show us where in the story of the centurion and his servant the context indicates a sexual relationship, because it's certainly not in the word ...more

Dictionary.com: homosexual: a person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex. gay: a homosexual person, especially a male. Just a different way of saying the same thing gd. Homosexuality is defined by sexual urges. And would you please show us where in the story of the centurion and his servant the context indicates a sexual relationship, because it's certainly not in the word "pais".less

Matt 19:4-6 4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Ordain: t...more

Matt 19:4-6
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Ordain: to enact or establish by law, edict; to decree; give orders for.

Asunder: into separate parts; in or into pieces; apart or widely separated.

Is Jesus not saying that man and woman were made by God, joined together to make one (they twain shall be one flesh), and that man is not to tear apart this created order? And if this is so, then how can Deut. 24 mean that God ordained divorce? Well, it doesn’t of course, it was simply man’s invention, which was further verified by Jesus saying “Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so”.less

gd, "Matthew 19:4-6 shows Jesus' views on divorce. However, I think we need to look deeper and apply current knowledge." His VIEW? Jesus is God -- and in verses 4-6 is laid out what He has ORDAINED. So, you think you know better than God, that perhaps He wasn't aware of what would be happening in our current day so you are filing in for His lack of knowledge?

DP, I know. But gd seems to think that, where the Bible gives some type of instruction, it automatically means God has ordained something, i.e., polygamy, slavery and the like. Believer has been trying to show him his error, but he's not buying it. Matt 19:4-6 gives what God actually ordained, 8 shows the sin problem.

gd, if Deut. 24 "establishes" divorce, thereby making it acceptable, then how does that square with Matt. 19:4-6?

gd, would you say that Deut. 24:1-4 "establishes" divorce?

Steve, are you really asking rev for suggestions on how to phrase a question to get a reply?!!!! He doesn't spend the majority of his time asking questions. Mostly he just enjoys dissing others and ROTFL. Most people just ignore him.

believer, it would be nice if he truly wanted to understand ANY part of God's word, other than what he finds convenient. He surely is "of" this world.

gd, I think we're going about this all wrong. It would be much simpler, and a much much shorter list, to just ask you this. Which things in the Bible, that is, the portion you HAVE read, do you believe to be true?

" One can tell by the things homosexuality is compared with (anger, theft, addiction, adultery, fornication) that it is bigotry and archaic thinking that fuels anti-homosexual sentiments." Really? Adultery and fornication are sexual sins also, they also can be addiction sins. " Being homosexual is not destructive". Also said about anger (short of rage), fornication, lying (except for the rea...more

" One can tell by the things homosexuality is compared with (anger, theft, addiction, adultery, fornication) that it is bigotry and archaic thinking that fuels anti-homosexual sentiments." Really? Adultery and fornication are sexual sins also, they also can be addiction sins.

" Being homosexual is not destructive". Also said about anger (short of rage), fornication, lying (except for the real biggies, of course), and if you go into the prisons, they'll tell you plenty of situations in all categories that aren't sin, and have all kinds of reasons for it that they think are valid too.

" Some go as far to say homosexuals can't be Christians, but murderers, adulterers, and the like are never placed in that category." Hmm, Yep, you really need to read the Bible if you really believe this.

"It's actually eerily reminiscent of the crucifixion story: Pontius Pilate can't find a reason to condemn homosexuality, but the religious authorities want it dead. Is all the gay bashing and suicides homosexuality's long, slow death on the cross?..." gd, I have no doubt that you think this is a very clever play on words on your part, but it says a lot about where your heart is. NO ONE who belongs to Christ is likely to denigrate His sacrifice on the cross in such a manner. God giving himself for mankind was the greatest gift ever given, or that will ever be given.

If God's view on the issue does matter to you, then please tell me why homosexuality should not be listed as sin along with anger, theft, addiction, adultery, fornication, and even gossiping, drunkeness, and many more. The Bible lists them all.less

You didn't answer the question gd. Have you read all of the Bible, and did you know that God said He was going to destroy all by fire?

Goodnight gd, it was all around Paul in his day! Of course he understood it, and he understood that God called it a sin. Did he have to BE a homosexual before he could call it a sin? In that case, can only those who have been there call it sin (in which case, you owe Max apologies). So, to call adultery a sin must you be an adulterer -- or rather, by your logic, perhaps said adulterer could re...more

Goodnight gd, it was all around Paul in his day! Of course he understood it, and he understood that God called it a sin. Did he have to BE a homosexual before he could call it a sin? In that case, can only those who have been there call it sin (in which case, you owe Max apologies). So, to call adultery a sin must you be an adulterer -- or rather, by your logic, perhaps said adulterer could refuse to see the sin on the basis of "they certainly didn't understand why back then". Or a fornicater could say "they certainly didn't understand why back then".

You can't say all this was normal back then (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions), but then say it wasn't understood by the likes of Paul so he was referring to some unknown "other" in Corinthians, Romans, and Timothy. Well actually, you can say anything you like I suppose, but there's no logical basis for it given some of your very own links. Same-sex marriage was not unknown during that time, but supposedly Paul didn't know about this either? And they married for reasons other than those given for today? Or not....... Which was it?

It doesn't matter who we're attracted to, how hard it is to get on top of anger issues, what reason you give for stealing, how difficult it is to deal with drug dependence or alcoholism, etc. etc. The choice still remains. Does God's view on the issue matter, really matter to you, or not. That is the real issue.less