Danpat: thanks for sharing that with me. I found when I went to catholic school we were taught more about the saints both male and female. Saint Rita, for instance, is a great story and comfort as is Saint Brighid.

Believer - It is good to hear. I was raised in a small episcopal church, but attended methodist, presbyterian, and non-denominational youth groups. (lived in a very small town). Later - attended a big-city church and then went to a Baptist missionary church which was actually considered non-denominational. It was a struggle to do things as a female in many of those places. I was actually the f...more

Believer - It is good to hear. I was raised in a small episcopal church, but attended methodist, presbyterian, and non-denominational youth groups. (lived in a very small town). Later - attended a big-city church and then went to a Baptist missionary church which was actually considered non-denominational. It was a struggle to do things as a female in many of those places. I was actually the first female acolyte in one of the churches I attended as a youth, and it took a lot of tenacity to be able to do it and caught a lot of flack for it. To me, it always seemed God (the Divine, El, Elohim...) was asking me to find a way, to seek the truth beyond my gender and find gender role models, but I was often confronted with very patriarchal and somewhat chauvinistic views. It is still a struggle for me, as I am sure it is for many women to feel like and be a force in areas of spiritual belief. But I am glad to hear that your story is different. However, I am also equally glad the topic is coming up, because I am quite sure I am not the only woman who has had to confront issues of "your just a girl", "girls are not as worthy" etc.less

Reposted: I actually think Carter has opened up a great avenue for discussion. Women"s place in churches across the world vary and I am sure some of those places are indeed less than and secondary and do promote ill will towards them. When I was in church, I never once heard about the great women leaders in the bible - save for the Ester, Ruth, Mary, Mary Magdalene. The others I found, researched,...more

Reposted: I actually think Carter has opened up a great avenue for discussion. Women"s place in churches across the world vary and I am sure some of those places are indeed less than and secondary and do promote ill will towards them. When I was in church, I never once heard about the great women leaders in the bible - save for the Ester, Ruth, Mary, Mary Magdalene. The others I found, researched, and read about myself. When I brought it to the attention of those in church, I was told to leave it be - keep quiet. But there ARE great female leaders in the Church and Women do have great role models and I don"t get why people are seemingly afraid of that?less

Well - I accidentally deleted my own post! lol Anyway - regarding the woman"s departure, I feel like we are not getting the whole story. Nevertheless, if there was an equality law in place, I feel the people on the council should have approached each application with that law in mind despite personal feelings. Kind of like Judges, who much make rulings based on the law, not on their own feelings...more

Well - I accidentally deleted my own post! lol Anyway - regarding the woman"s departure, I feel like we are not getting the whole story. Nevertheless, if there was an equality law in place, I feel the people on the council should have approached each application with that law in mind despite personal feelings. Kind of like Judges, who much make rulings based on the law, not on their own feelings or religious beliefs.less

I do not understand people"s opposition to women as leaders in the Church when we have had such female leaders as the Prophetess Deborah, Miriam, and Huldah to name a few in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Paul had a number of female minister colleagues (some mentioned some not). And what of Junia, Euodia and Syntyche, Phoebe, Pricilla, and Nympha; all of whom had leadership roles in the ...more

I do not understand people"s opposition to women as leaders in the Church when we have had such female leaders as the Prophetess Deborah, Miriam, and Huldah to name a few in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Paul had a number of female minister colleagues (some mentioned some not). And what of Junia, Euodia and Syntyche, Phoebe, Pricilla, and Nympha; all of whom had leadership roles in the church and whom Paul himself wrote to and about.less

DP - you bring up a great point. I think there are examples of this with other religions as well, muslim and jews, protastants and catholics, muslims and christians, christians and pagans (using a general term)... But I think the best way to combat these things is to treat others with respect and love them as Christ would love them. One rarely wins over people to a point of view out of fear or th...more

DP - you bring up a great point. I think there are examples of this with other religions as well, muslim and jews, protastants and catholics, muslims and christians, christians and pagans (using a general term)... But I think the best way to combat these things is to treat others with respect and love them as Christ would love them. One rarely wins over people to a point of view out of fear or threat of death, but with respect, integrity, and kindness. Even then, one may not win people over, but I think it will at least create an atmosphere of mutual respect and consideration.less

I forgot the second quote- which came to mind today while on my way to work. (Matthew 22:37-40) 37Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. PS. I forgive you, I th...more

I forgot the second quote- which came to mind today while on my way to work. (Matthew 22:37-40) 37Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

PS. I forgive you, I thank you, and I know the Divine has a reason for me being here. After praying about it, I have let anger go and will continue to seek out Truth and follow the Divine. Peace be with you all, Love in Christ - Gnosticgirlless

Re: Breath of God The breath of God just puts the creation story so poetically, and to know we each have the breath of God within us is a great spiritual comfort. Re: Post on Women I would also like to repost this, as I fear it has gotten lost in all the other stuff. One reason why many feel women are not as highly thought of and buck against what many say is the law (womens place is submis...more

Re: Breath of God
The breath of God just puts the creation story so poetically, and to know we each have the breath of God within us is a great spiritual comfort.

Re: Post on Women
I would also like to repost this, as I fear it has gotten lost in all the other stuff. One reason why many feel women are not as highly thought of and buck against what many say is the law (womens place is submissive), is because they know the stories of women who where leaders, like the Prophetess Deborah who spoke on behalf of God, or who went out to preach like Phoebe, or like Mary Magdalene, whom Christ appeared to first, Ester and Ruth, a provocative story indeed and not one of weakness - etc. There are more... but these stories seem to get lost. It has hurt us more than we realize

My quotes today: (Ephesians 4:15,16) 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Peace be with youless

I ment to add this earlier - I also think women should look to Deborah, Phoebe, Ester, and Mary Magdalene (etc.) as role models. They were leaders, adventurous, risk takers, loyal, loving, lead god centered lives. AND they had real problems which we as women can probably relate to. :) I have found that these heroines are often times not emphasized in church or they are overlooked completely - so...more

I ment to add this earlier - I also think women should look to Deborah, Phoebe, Ester, and Mary Magdalene (etc.) as role models. They were leaders, adventurous, risk takers, loyal, loving, lead god centered lives. AND they had real problems which we as women can probably relate to. :) I have found that these heroines are often times not emphasized in church or they are overlooked completely - so maybe it is up to each of us to bring them in to our lives. Their roles were important, and so our ours. :) We could learn a lot.less

Believer: I cannot tell you how very much I appreciate your words. I always learn something from you and I see a light in you I very much find myself agreeing with / following. Thank you. No one should be put in a box, christian or otherwise, because we are called to love eachother as we love ourselves - and I believe that means we should love eachother as Christ loves the world. Peace be with yo...more

Believer: I cannot tell you how very much I appreciate your words. I always learn something from you and I see a light in you I very much find myself agreeing with / following. Thank you. No one should be put in a box, christian or otherwise, because we are called to love eachother as we love ourselves - and I believe that means we should love eachother as Christ loves the world. Peace be with you Believer.less

Believer, I like the way that is put. Defiantly something for me to chew on as well. I think the Divine wants us to be the best we can, make the best choices we can, become as like him as possible. One cannot have a beautiful piece of pottery without a kiln fire to put it in. :) right? Btw, thanks as always for your discussions. I always learn something new. :)

Jehovahnissi > Sisters, you are fellow heirs in the Kingdom of God. You are fellow priests in the church of God. You are honored. You are cherished. You are valuable. You are needed. I appreciate what you have said. I think you could replace sister with brother as well and it be equally true. :) Thank you.

Pagan: I like what you said. I agree. Couples should unite and complement eachother.

Chdldry - I think if this means for the entire bible, a lot of people are in trouble. The quote you gave I believe, is only for the book of revelations, not the entire bible. Though I am sure adding to and subtracting from holy words would be bad no matter what. Here is the problem though, we have to translate and interpret to get context, depending upon the scribe or translater we will get som...more

Chdldry - I think if this means for the entire bible, a lot of people are in trouble. The quote you gave I believe, is only for the book of revelations, not the entire bible. Though I am sure adding to and subtracting from holy words would be bad no matter what. Here is the problem though, we have to translate and interpret to get context, depending upon the scribe or translater we will get some things out of context. Like witch came out of poisoner and other things.less

Well Bryan all the questions are good ones. I think submitting does not mean being a doormat - I think men and women are equal but not the same. It should be the couple who decides the roles each takes to make the family whole physically and spiritually.

The derogatory, inflammatory remarks continue and so do the lies. I have never once denounced or announced anything. I believe in the Divine (GOD, Elohim, El) and have faith what I am doing is the right thing to do. I am not a gnostic who believes in the ascended masters stuff, which I have already said. I DONT believe like you, however, and I am tired of the abusive language which is no light a...more

The derogatory, inflammatory remarks continue and so do the lies. I have never once denounced or announced anything. I believe in the Divine (GOD, Elohim, El) and have faith what I am doing is the right thing to do. I am not a gnostic who believes in the ascended masters stuff, which I have already said. I DONT believe like you, however, and I am tired of the abusive language which is no light at all. I disagree with having to confess to people who insist on persecution rather than love, I do not have to entertain the spirit of chaos or spirit of discord if I do not wish to, simply because they think they are better than - and as if I have a point to make. But I will defend myself. I will seek out other means to end this. Thank you and Peace be with you all.less

Persecution based on religious belief is horrible! No matter what religion you are, all human beings should have the right to worship as they choose. One thing we can do individually is lead by example. Persecution comes in all shapes and sizes, I truly believe the only way to stop it is to stop it where ever we see it (even in small tiny ways).

Life presents us with teaching moments - moments to learn. The Divine presented one to me this week, and has reminded me that we are called to wash eachothers feet; be humble and supportive. Washing of the feet is the lowest most icky job I am sure, but no matter our rank or self perception, we and the church must take on even this humble task for humanity, no matter gender, race, creed...etc.

Interesting. Wonder why my post was flagged? Thank you CP for still being able to read it should a person want to. Anyway, here is an interesting parable by Christ Luke 18:9-14. This parable reveals to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others, that indeed God knows who comes to him in the right way. We should beware of presenting proud devotions to the Lord, ...more

Interesting. Wonder why my post was flagged? Thank you CP for still being able to read it should a person want to. Anyway, here is an interesting parable by Christ Luke 18:9-14. This parable reveals to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others, that indeed God knows who comes to him in the right way. We should beware of presenting proud devotions to the Lord, and of despising others. If I confess out of the wrong place, because of pride, a need to show off, or in anger - I come not from the right place.

I am accountable to the Divine, God knows my heart.less

You are wrong Delight - just because I do not confess my belief to you does not mean what you say is true. I am very disappointed. Christ commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to love God with our whole heart. He also says not to be pompous and to speak in private the things of what we need, this is what I do. (hence the earlier quote) You have shown your self to be combative, acc...more

You are wrong Delight - just because I do not confess my belief to you does not mean what you say is true. I am very disappointed. Christ commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to love God with our whole heart. He also says not to be pompous and to speak in private the things of what we need, this is what I do. (hence the earlier quote)

You have shown your self to be combative, accusatory, baring false witness against me and others - I find no trust, faith, or light in you at all. So why should I entrust my words with you now? You have no authority. God does. I have nothing to prove to you and I will no longer continue in discussion with you. Peace be with you.less