The Coming Apostasy

JLF »

Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:33 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

The apostasy has already occurred. It happened right after the last of Christ's first apostles died.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:58 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Anthony
Jokes at someone else's expense are not funny. They contain an underlying theme of intolerance. It makes no difference who makes them. Self deprecating humor may be OK as long as the teller is the only victim. But our country and culture has decided that somethings are out of bounds. Tolerance should be preached from the pulpit. If it isn't then it does not serve God's purposes of bringing people together. If it divides us then it serves Satan's interest.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:04 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

Rand503
People make fun of and deride those they feel are weaker than they are. Often this need is based on a belief of their own inferiority. They ridicule weaker people in order to make themselves feel better about who they are. This belief often is instilled in them at home and confirmed in church. But, this may be changing as Americans and others around the world become educated and understand more about each other. Keep in mid however, his mindset is often the impetus for declining numbers in many Christian denominations. That is why you see the leadership in such denominations demonizing others where numbers are increasing or the negative atmosphere is less palpabale. If you are attending a church where Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Scientists or others are berated and derided from the pulpit or other official church organs such as newspapers or websites, you may want to look elsewhere.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

amendoza
God was not alone. Christ was there as were others. But I suggest the question does not revolve around whether there were others but who and what they were. There is nothing in the NT to suggest these beings were a God described like the Trinitarians say He is. In fact the NT is quite specific that God the Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost are separate beings.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

amendoza
The Trinitarian view of God is a man made creation which was adopted in the fourth and fifth centuries AD. It was heavily influenced by the ancient Greek philosophers. It can't be substantiated in the New Testament according to Harper's Bible Dictionary. This idea of a three-in-one God was not taught or believed by the original Christians. If we believed the Trinitarians, Christ, the Apostles, and the membership of Christ's original church could not be called Christian. It wasn't until Constantine, the Roman Emperor who murdered his family, called together the Councils at Nicaea that these and other non-biblical ideas began to be discussed and then codified in the canon of the dominant religious authority. Historic Christianity has continued to promulgate it. But it is not biblical. It is a tradition.
The Trinitarian view is, in fact, an element of the apostasy. The apostles warned of the influences corrupting the primitive church at the time. Paul said, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." (Colossians 2:8) He was speaking of Greek philosophy, the same that influenced the Trinitarian view. You might want to research that a bit.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

amendoza
I am sure what you said is heartfelt. I appreciate it. But you have not addressed the issues. What I wanted was for you to address Trinitarianism given Evangelicals say that is why, given we reject that notion, Mormons are not Christian.But, using your piece as the test, Mormons believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. He is our Saviour. We believe that through Christ's atonement, people can be changed or born again. So if all we have to do is believe in Christ to be saved why aren't we Christian?

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

amendoza
You bring up some interesting points. In my post I suggest the things you described as problematic are, in fact, distractions from what should be the focus of discussion. That is, first, the nature of God and second whether God has again opened the scriptural canon. All the other things about the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and so forth are subordinate issues to these two things. They are the underpinnings of the whole Mormon theology. Successfully attack them and you can rightfully defeat all the other issues that spring from them by default.

Members of the Evangelical movement have told us what we believe is in error but when we ask what we should believe in order to qualify for salvation all we get are shaky views of scripture, personal opinion or tradition based on Greek philosophy adopted in the fifth century and passed off as Christian. So let me ask you - what does one have to believe in order to qualify for salvation? Not what you think Mormons believe, but what you understand Christ says true believers must do. Let me start you off, hopefully, on the right foot. No man converted me.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Amondoza
Misconception" sermon series, Driscoll addressed question No. 8: "Why do you make jokes about Mormon missionaries..." Misperceptions are because of inadequate information. Bad information feeds into to bad judgment. Bad judgment feeds antagonism and mistrust which serves only the Deceiver. Correct information is the foundation of acceptance and cohesion even if we have real doctrinal differences. It makes us better Americans.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

Mormons have always held that historic Christianity is the outgrowth of the first century apostasy and that Joseph Smith, acting under the direction of Jesus Christ, restored Christ’s original Church. This of course has always been a rub for historic Christians. Mormon theology attacks their very credibility and 2000 years of Christian thought and practice. If Smith was right, it would put the historic Christian world on its ear requiring a re-thinking of so much of what historic Christianity has said since the fifth century creeds. Is it any wonder why Mormons have been disinvited to the party?

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

It seems the more vocal the anti Mormons get the more interest they generate in the Church. This is supported by the stats for www.mormon.org, the LDS Church’s web site where basic doctrines and beliefs are presented. According to Quantcast, http://www.quantcast.com/, monthly visitors have increased by 80,000 or 40% since August of 2007. This coincides with the increasing discussion of Mormon beliefs in the press. There, visitors contrast and compare what they read and hear from our detractors with what the Church actually presents. Concurrently, it also appears to this observer that the discussion is moving away from the wholly outrageous unsubstantiated non-sense we sometimes see from so many Evangelicals - and their fellow travelers - to the more thoughtful and researched presentations of Catholics and Anglicans.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:14 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

“And then they have a Mormon. Do the math.” says Jonathan Martin of Politico. Well, we do math all the time and the higher the LDS Church’s profile gets the more opportunities there are to clarify all the disinformation promulgated by our detractors. The anti Mormons have raised these issues to the level that Americans wonder what all the fuss is about and investigate. When mainline Christians began distrusting their religious leadership in the 1950’s and 60’s they deserted by the millions. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was a beneficiary of some of that congregant disenchantment then and will certainly have more such opportunities. It seems the more outrageous the claims about us the more interest is generated. Our last several Church presidents have said the biggest problem the LDS Church suffers from is growth. And so it is.

Mars Hill Tackles Sex, Rape, Birth Control the Biblical Way

JLF »

Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:11 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

It has been clear that Americans do not like ad hominem attacks. It is undignified and turns people off. In discussions about religion from the pulpit it has a particularly devastating effect. The following was submitted to a Georgia newspaper recently.

“I grew up here attending the Baptist Church every Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. We were at revivals monthly, I attended Baptist school, Vacation Bible School, etc. I enjoyed church very much - until they started preaching against this religion and that religion. I really didn’t think that was very Christ-like. Then our pastor began bashing the “Mormons,” similar to the article I just read. I was so curious about this church and the crazy, unbelievable things I was being told they believed. I attended their church and something was really different; I felt the spirit of Jesus Christ like I had never felt before. I studied and studied and found out they don’t believe what I had been told all my life that they believe.” Walker County Messenger, 12/26/2007 by Susan Nowland.

This lady converted sometime thereafter. Historic Christianity would be more successful if they dropped the anti-Mormon campaigns and just answered questions about theological differences when asked. Just present the differences. Leave the demonizing out of it.

Muslim Clerics Press Afghan President to Block Missionary Activity

JLF »

Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

There are way too many "Christian" types who believe that being killed - while doing what they believe is God's work - to trust them in a place like Afghanistan. Too many of these people are not trustworthy and should be kept out. Let them put themselves in harms way if they want. But putting some poor "convert" in danger of being beheaded is criminal. It is these "let's all jump off the bridge together" idiots that do the long term damage and keep responsible people from doing their work.

Is Huckabee's Faith Too Strong for the White House?

JLF »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

Again we see the cross being used as a weapon. This time however it is not blacks being persecuted. This time the victims are Mormons. Huckabee and his ilk have again taken up this symbol of Christianity and swung it like an ax at the heart of all things American. Bigotry and intolerance are still alive and well and even prospering in the heart of way too many Evangelicals. Are we going to see Evangelicals burning crosses at Mormon homes and churches? Don't you people have any shame - no sense of history - no horror at the thought of how you have regressed to the injustices you perpetrated in the past? Does the country have to relive the nightmares you made us endure in previous generations? Event the German Nazi's repented but not so the Huckabee people and his hate mongers.

Is Huckabee's Faith Too Strong for the White House?

JLF »

Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:16 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 6

The continuing attack against Mormons by Huckabee and his supporters is little different than the attacks we saw in previous generations against black people. Huckabee uses the cross as a weapon against people he dislikes just as his denomination has done for decades. He and his ilk have dragged up the old images of bigotry and intolerance and made us all aware of just how ugly prejudice and intolerance is. With one hand they protest against Mormons and the other they disavow such behavior. Yet in the Baptist Press they publish anti-Mormon hit pieces, promote Mormon hate such as is found at http://sbcoutreach.christianbooknet.com/ in the "Cult and Controversial section. Twenty six pages of titles aimed at defaming Mormons. Huckabee says he knows little about Mormons but Southern Baptists make this stuff available even in their churches to little children. It is preached from the pulpits and even though there are accurate interpretations available to them they prefer to propagate the erroneous and disseminate disinformation - this from the man who claims the high road.

maranatha7593 lies above are a prime example of what I mean. There is not one word of truth in what he/she says. And that is supposed to be Christian? - he/she is a good Evangelical? Do you think you can just say whatever comes to your mind and get away with it? Did you learn that in church too?

Pro-Gay Romney Upsets Family Values Leader

JLF »

Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:37 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

Romney View of Homosexual Behavior

I am not sure this article is an accurate representation of what Romney said or meant. It certainly isn't what I have heard him say in the past. I think readers will discover Romney's message about homosexuality is that we have no control over deviant sexual practices – the secular part of society will not go along with us. The only thing we CAN do is establish that marriage is between one man and one woman. Romney said he would support such a Constitutional amendment.

Intelligent Design Group Identifies Failures of Darwinism

JLF »

Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I like a recent comment that evolution is the "what" and God is the "how". The six day thing, as well as a lot of other things, is yet to be reconciled. I am just not sure whether it will be a "how" thing or a "why" thing. The "who" part I think is not affected.

Romney Speech Reflections

JLF »

Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:24 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dr. Land has made an honest attempt to make a respectful reply and analysis. But it seems way too generous when one considers the extreme position the SBC takes on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. One only has to go to their retail book sites or publications in their church buildings to see often virulent assaults on the LDS Church. Discussion of doctrinal differences exist and serious discussion of them is expected. But the unwarranted assaults as found in this literature, and among regular sermons, is over the top. When will the SBC moderate this attack?

Romney Not Likely to Ease Mormon Suspicions

JLF »

Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 6

"Along with many Christian evangelicals, the Southern Baptist Convention does not consider Mormonism to be part of historic orthodox Christianity." Neither do Mormons. Mormons believe Jesus is the Christ and worship him. We don't claim to be like the historic Christians because of theological differences. We never have. But we are Christians. Our worship of Christ makes us so. Historic Christians claim to be the sole authority on who is and who isn't. They say real Christians must not only worship Christ they must adhere to a 4th century notions of the nature of God. Mormons disagree. So, after the agreement about Jesus being the son of God, we pretty much separate on a lot things. I could go into details of other things but won't. But we generally agree on other values.

Mormon Issue Mattering More in Iowa

JLF »

Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Hokey
I hope after reading my previous post you know why we say it is important for people to read the Book of Mormon. So much of what is misunderstood is better answered by the Holy Ghost than us.