Thank you believer, and now I better understand your post. I apologize again - I thought I was probably not putting your comment in context, and I thank you for taking the time out to set me straight. :)

Believer, so explain to me how my love for my spouse, my willingness to die for her, do everything in my power to see her taken care of and provided for is idol worship. IF indeed that is what you are saying? If not, then I have missed the meaning of your post and I apologize in advance. :)

My love for my wife is not based on her parts, but her person. Do I like her body, yes. I think it safe to say anyone married, loves their spouses body. BUT to imply, the only reason I am with my wife is because of her body is rude and hurtful. To imply I idolize her parts as some religious worship to please myself, is also rude, hurtful and crass.

Foreveralive, not sure why you sigh. But to me the meaning of a word and understanding context is very important. I will wait for Clover to respond so that I can fully comment on his comment. As for reading the bible, I have. It was my quest this past year to read your religion's main text and try to better understand christians and christianity as a whole. For you I ask, why do you refe...more

Foreveralive, not sure why you sigh. But to me the meaning of a word and understanding context is very important. I will wait for Clover to respond so that I can fully comment on his comment.

As for reading the bible, I have. It was my quest this past year to read your religion's main text and try to better understand christians and christianity as a whole.

For you I ask, why do you refer to paganism as satanic paganism? Would that not imply a belief in satan or an active association with? If I was to do as you do, It would be as if I had called you Babdic Christian.less

Hyperion, I strongly disagree with you assessment and am appalled at the suggestion my love for my wife is based on her parts. And yes I take your statement personally even though it was not personally directed at me. Your broad stroke of other's relationships is not truthful at all, and if I used the same stroke to paint Christians with a particular characteristic, I would equally be in the w...more

Hyperion, I strongly disagree with you assessment and am appalled at the suggestion my love for my wife is based on her parts. And yes I take your statement personally even though it was not personally directed at me.

Your broad stroke of other's relationships is not truthful at all, and if I used the same stroke to paint Christians with a particular characteristic, I would equally be in the wrong and I am sure others would quickly stand up to point to the falseness of my claim.less

Clover, when you say dealt with, what do you mean? And are you referring to Witches in the biblical sense or actual Witches in the Pagan sense? Trying to understand your comment. :) Peace.

Clover I agree with a lot of what you have said here, as well as that no one is perfect. :) A side note. Pagans also believe in eternal life, just what that means is a bit different and the ideas vary as widely as probably do Christians ideas on the topic. Thank you for your post.

I am not sure I follow how the first part of your response connects with what I have said, but I will try to address it line by line nonetheless. My parishioners are not complaining, these are their reasons and motivations for leaving. No one is blaming christians in their entirety nor the entire religion, but these are examples of why people leave - valid to the person leaving, but not neces...more

I am not sure I follow how the first part of your response connects with what I have said, but I will try to address it line by line nonetheless.

My parishioners are not complaining, these are their reasons and motivations for leaving. No one is blaming christians in their entirety nor the entire religion, but these are examples of why people leave - valid to the person leaving, but not necessarily indicative of the entire religion.

My parishioners are the farthest from vindictive one could get. Our law demands harm none - these reasons are only expressions of experiences which brought them to our religion and beliefs.

I am not sure I understand what we need a scapegoat for or alibi, so I cannot address this sentence.

We do not define spirituality on our own terms, but we do have our own personal relationships with God. As to the worship creation more than the creator, I cannot speak for wiccans or all pagans, but I will say my sect worships the God and Goddess, the creators of this world and respect and honor what they have given us; the life and home they have made for us. We do not worship a tree, or a blade of grass - that would be rather silly. We do honor those things for what they are and what they were created for.

Perhaps this helps you understand part of why, at least from experiences I have first hand knowledge about, people have left the christian religion.

Peace.less

Amalgamate you made me smile! I believe Errol doesn't understand fully what a coven is, and lesbian's getting married would not be a defining factor in such a thing anyway, nor are witches in anyway associated with the christian devil or judaic idea of satan. I didn't know that foreveralive. That is an interesting definition of witch, but certainly not what a Pagan would call a witch.

I can tell you what a few of my parishioners who come from Christianity have said to me regarding leaving the christian faith. This is a small list and in no way reflects all reasons. But perhaps it will shed more insight than what the author above says regarding Wiccans / Pagans. 1) lack of balance; 2) subjugation or exultation based on gender; 3) violence; 4) neglect of nature and the consist...more

I can tell you what a few of my parishioners who come from Christianity have said to me regarding leaving the christian faith. This is a small list and in no way reflects all reasons. But perhaps it will shed more insight than what the author above says regarding Wiccans / Pagans. 1) lack of balance; 2) subjugation or exultation based on gender; 3) violence; 4) neglect of nature and the consistent calling of creation sinful or evil; and 5) xenophobic attitudes.

I am not suggesting these are indicative of all christians or denominations, but they are from the experiences of others as they have experienced.less

PS Believer - Merry Christmas to you and your family. Tomorrow is Yule and I will not be on for the rest of the week. I wanted to make sure I extended greetings to you and all christians today. Blessings and again, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Well if it was as if all of a sudden gay people were going to be flooding a military 100% full of straight people, sure I might see some very rough times ahead, but gays have been in the military and are in the military now. What will change ? I don't see the issues being brought up. Your assumptions stem, I think, from a perception of sexual behavior. Most bunking down just don't want to get...more

Well if it was as if all of a sudden gay people were going to be flooding a military 100% full of straight people, sure I might see some very rough times ahead, but gays have been in the military and are in the military now. What will change ? I don't see the issues being brought up. Your assumptions stem, I think, from a perception of sexual behavior. Most bunking down just don't want to get shot, they are not thinking about sex or sexual preference. :) The religious issues should be handled separately in my opinion, and can be done so with care and respect for all.

I also am glad that this has happened and will be done properly without rushing - for everyone's sake. :) I am still glad that the program has been repealed, I think we will find in the end it will actually improve things not make them worse.less

IF you cannot see my point, then I cannot help you. :) However, I will try to rephrase a bit. Openly sodomizing someone would be against military code of conduct, but openly having sex period would also be a violation of code of conduct. BUT to the additional point I was making, that is not what repealing DADT is about. As for the values comment. I agree America is seemingly in a phase of tu...more

IF you cannot see my point, then I cannot help you. :) However, I will try to rephrase a bit. Openly sodomizing someone would be against military code of conduct, but openly having sex period would also be a violation of code of conduct. BUT to the additional point I was making, that is not what repealing DADT is about.

As for the values comment. I agree America is seemingly in a phase of turmoil because of people focusing in guns, violence, hatred, and fear rather than not causing harm and all that entails.less

wow foreveralive - why is it people only think of sex when talking about gays and in particular gay men? Anyway, being able to serve openly in the military does not have much to do with the action of sex but with the ability to not have to lie when asked about family, to be able to have your significant other called should you be injured, etc. And to be able to function without having to wear a m...more

wow foreveralive - why is it people only think of sex when talking about gays and in particular gay men? Anyway, being able to serve openly in the military does not have much to do with the action of sex but with the ability to not have to lie when asked about family, to be able to have your significant other called should you be injured, etc. And to be able to function without having to wear a mask will take a great deal of stress and strain off of those brave men and women who have to do the same job as their straight counterparts. Acting in appropriately or without honor and integrity will result in the same punishment no matter if you are gay or straight.

As to the decline you perceive, I would point to more guns on the streets, more violence on the television, divorce, lack of education, emphasis on war and a hate rather than peace and love.less

I think this is because the holidays mentioned are not religious and other holidays like them celebrating a diverse cultural ideas and beliefs are equally celebrated. A public school only celebrating christmas where there is the potential to have a diverse number of students who are not christian, could be an issue. Not saying it is, but I can see the point they make about celebrate one you mu...more

I think this is because the holidays mentioned are not religious and other holidays like them celebrating a diverse cultural ideas and beliefs are equally celebrated.

A public school only celebrating christmas where there is the potential to have a diverse number of students who are not christian, could be an issue. Not saying it is, but I can see the point they make about celebrate one you must celebrate all - or absolutely none.

I would like to think the ACLU would make the same argument if a public school only celebrated Yule.less

In a way I understand the predicament mentioned here, if you as a public entity celebrate one religious holiday, it would be prudent to celebrate them all. Or at the very least allow children not of the christian faith to participate as they like or don't like. For instance, one of my friends children brought information about Yule to class, it was great time to bridge gaps and create understand...more

In a way I understand the predicament mentioned here, if you as a public entity celebrate one religious holiday, it would be prudent to celebrate them all. Or at the very least allow children not of the christian faith to participate as they like or don't like. For instance, one of my friends children brought information about Yule to class, it was great time to bridge gaps and create understanding. Which I am always in agreement with. :)

Peace and Blessings
7 days to Yule! :)less

Don't fix what is not broken. Life threatening disabilities need attention and God has given us the abilities and talents to treat such things, but we are not called to fix what is not broken - would you put a new hand on someone who already has a perfectly good one? Just food for thought. :) Peace and blessings Prophet.

HO, I am not sure I understand this tithe concept and how it can restrict God from doing something. Can you explain please? Peace and Blessings.

Believer I also agree here as I agreed on another thread. I think this could be a win win for everyone.

Thank you Chris for the information, I will look at that as well. Wow I have homework for this week and a lot of it! I might have to revisit this after Yule. Ginas - my avatar is representative of God or the sacred 3s (son, father, old man / maid, mother, crone). Threes is very important to us and often old tales speak of things in threes.