Prophet, they accepted incest before they realized the birth defects. Incestual marriages were made illegal after they saw the soveriegn lines that went crazy due to incest. Gay marriage was made illegal because of Christian emperors. There is a big difference there, one which you are refusing to acknowledge. Incestual relationships (which you seem quite stuck on) produce children with defects, ga...more

Prophet, they accepted incest before they realized the birth defects. Incestual marriages were made illegal after they saw the soveriegn lines that went crazy due to incest. Gay marriage was made illegal because of Christian emperors. There is a big difference there, one which you are refusing to acknowledge. Incestual relationships (which you seem quite stuck on) produce children with defects, gay marriages do not harm anyone because they can only adopt, which has been studied and shown that the children are much better off in the care of a loving household, be it same or opposite sex parents, than stuck in foster care. I have said the same thing over and over about incest, and you keep trying to twist my words and somehow connect these two issues. There is no connection other than, as I am a Jew said, Christians outlaw them both.less

It doesn't upset me in the least, but its cute you think that. I can read you like a book. You never come to the table with anything more than your copy and paste button, and its the same garbage everytime. You see believer can actually argue worth a dime and you latch on to him. Just an observation...

Prophet, it seems to me you are attempting to decide who is and is not a Christian, which you have no place doing. Until you are free of all sin, I suggest you stop passing judgments against others. Also, funny how you kiss up to believer. you truly disgust me. I can only imagine how lonely you truly must be with your obvious desire for acceptance.

DP, the airplanes sin. Afterall, by your definition they go against God's design (gravity, for one.) Prophet, again, you put words in my mouth about incest and refuse to show any evidence because you know there is none. Gay marriage is actually documented in the early Roman Empire, although Constantine had it made illegal and ordered anyone found guilty of gay marriage to be burned at the sta...more

DP, the airplanes sin. Afterall, by your definition they go against God's design (gravity, for one.) Prophet, again, you put words in my mouth about incest and refuse to show any evidence because you know there is none. Gay marriage is actually documented in the early Roman Empire, although Constantine had it made illegal and ordered anyone found guilty of gay marriage to be burned at the stake (somewhat metaphorical to what you are attempting to do now!)less

WB, you just addressed divorce rates. If anything, gay marriage will help those go down! Gay marriage will harm no one. Every other instance you described hurt someone in the physical or emotional. Saying gay marriage will harm you because it is a sin is of no importance to the law.

WB: in every instance of law you suggested, it is clear who would be hurt by those actions of the laws were not in place. Tell me, who would be hurt by gay marriage?

Prophet: Incest and homosexuality are 2 very different topics. If you think they're on the same playing field, I'd like to see you come back with some evidence showing reports of marriage petitions for brothers and sisters, or that they have suddenly increased in states where gay marriage is legal.

Believer, the question I was posing in regards to 9-11 is: If God knows the choices we will make, then he created the men who flew the planes knowing full well they would grow up to kill thousands and destroy the lives of even more. I am not sure how that fits with my worldview, to be quite honest.

Prophet, you have never once conducted yourself with tact in regards to me. You consistently engage in personal attacks and refuse to back up what you say with any kind of documentation. You claim I am not a Christian, that I lack scriptural knowledge, and that I support or reject incest, yet all of those things are words you have put in my mouth. If you consider what we are doing debating, may I ...more

Prophet, you have never once conducted yourself with tact in regards to me. You consistently engage in personal attacks and refuse to back up what you say with any kind of documentation. You claim I am not a Christian, that I lack scriptural knowledge, and that I support or reject incest, yet all of those things are words you have put in my mouth. If you consider what we are doing debating, may I suggest you go to your local high school and get a few pointers from their debate club.less

Because then God knows if we're going to Heaven or Hell already. If he knows the choices we will make, he knows if we will follow him or mad bad choices our entire lives.

Free will would be if we can choose to act and God doesn't know what we will choose. He might know we'll face tough situations, but he won't know the outcome. Predestination to me means God already knows what the outcomes of our lives will be, and knows the choices we will make, hence he knows from the get-go whether we will go to Heaven or Hell. You always hear stories about pe...more

Free will would be if we can choose to act and God doesn't know what we will choose. He might know we'll face tough situations, but he won't know the outcome. Predestination to me means God already knows what the outcomes of our lives will be, and knows the choices we will make, hence he knows from the get-go whether we will go to Heaven or Hell.

You always hear stories about people that should have been in the twin towers on 9-11, but were running late, or called out sick, etc. Is that a free will choice, or is that God's plan for us to do other things (which would be predestination.)less

WB, my sexual relationship is not the be all and end all with my partner. Yes, I am sexually attracted, but if neither of us could have sex, the relationship would still be there because it is based on love, not sex. You attempt to rebuke me, but you do not know me or anything about me, although you assume a lot and attempt to "rebuke me" on those grounds. If you think homosexuality is w...more

WB, my sexual relationship is not the be all and end all with my partner. Yes, I am sexually attracted, but if neither of us could have sex, the relationship would still be there because it is based on love, not sex. You attempt to rebuke me, but you do not know me or anything about me, although you assume a lot and attempt to "rebuke me" on those grounds. If you think homosexuality is wrong because of Leviticus, I would challenge your knowledge of the Bible (don't tell me out of all of Leviticus, homosexuality is the only thing we take from it, yet ignore everything about slavery and how to plant crops...) Also, Prophet was attempting to bring up incestuous relationships, which are in no way tied to homosexuality and are not organized to create an incestual marriage movement, so those scare tactics can be laid to rest. Someone who beats or rapes another person is not loving them, they are seeking power. I would agree that someone who is having an affair is sinning, but because they breaking their vow of love to another person. My whole point about free will is that we're not really free to make choices if God already knows exactly what we will choose from the time we are born. If God knows we will make bad choices through life and eventually go to hell, then in essence he is creating someone to be an evil being.less

I am a doer of the word. I go out an teach in the worst section of Baltimore. I volunteer. I love people unconditionally and would never dream of judging them or calling them out on their sins. If there is someone who is self destructive I will say something, but I can do it with tact, whereas you pretend you are on some ordained ministry from God to bring me truth when in fact you love to engage ...more

I am a doer of the word. I go out an teach in the worst section of Baltimore. I volunteer. I love people unconditionally and would never dream of judging them or calling them out on their sins. If there is someone who is self destructive I will say something, but I can do it with tact, whereas you pretend you are on some ordained ministry from God to bring me truth when in fact you love to engage in personal attacks quite regularly. That makes it crystal clear that you read the word, but do not truly connect it with God. Rather, you read the word, see where you can use the word as a weapon to cut someone else down, and proceed with that, which is not the way of God, no matter how you try to spin it.less

Name another group of people in love who are no hurting anyone, since you brought it up...I can't wait to hear this!

Because you are so deeply focused on mine and what I am doing. I love the Bible passage about pointing out the splinter in your neighbor's eye when you cannot see the log in your own. My goodness, did I just quote scripture?!? I guess I just proved I am a christian then, apparently that's all it takes!

Your slander is only harming your soul, not mine, as you are spreading blatant untruths, which anyone who reads these posts can see.

...but he knows if we'll choose not to love him

so then God creates people to do evil things as a part of his plan?!? I asked you to provide me first, because if sex isn't always for procreation, then sex for intimacy is an OK thing. If the Bible says sex for intimacy is only for straights, tell me where.

because he already knows what will happen. If he loves us, why would he create someone knowing they're going to do something like fly a plane into a building?

where in the bible does it support having sex just for intimacy without the goal of having children?