BTW, if you use the 'Reply' script, it'll keep the threads better organized.

Smunge, you're absolutely right ... I'm glad I don't do that :^)

Smunge, it sounds like you're looking for something historically verifiable. You have to refer to the Bible in order to do that ... but you also have to refer to archeology. What you're doing is like me asking you why I should believe the Earth moves around the sun, without referring to astronomy or Galileo.

Smunge, I can appreciate what you're saying. The translation for the word "Hell" that appears 31 odd times in the OT WAS referring to the Jewish concept of sheol, which refers to the "Underworld", which now people seem to argue over whether or not this was some sort of anti-chamber or waiting place (like purgatory) or maybe was only around until Christ could redeem us ... whatever. But, as man...more

Smunge, I can appreciate what you're saying. The translation for the word "Hell" that appears 31 odd times in the OT WAS referring to the Jewish concept of sheol, which refers to the "Underworld", which now people seem to argue over whether or not this was some sort of anti-chamber or waiting place (like purgatory) or maybe was only around until Christ could redeem us ... whatever.

But, as many unbelievers do, it seems like you are trying to appeal to our sensibilities on an emotional level, rather than an intellectual one. We ARE capable of actually thinking despite what the other "teams" say. I happen to be a software developer ... and a pretty capable one at that. We are engineers, doctors, lawyers, marine biologists, soldiers, geologists (yes a select few), writers, teachers, etc.

So, what I'm getting at here, is that it appears you're implying that we should NOT believe in something supernatural ... Hell, in this case, because it's "unpleasant". Ugly things existed in this world LOOONG before we ugly Christians were around. Why shouldn't we believe that there are things beyond this life, which might not make sense to "some", but can exists, nevertheless.less

SBellam, so when you were a Christian, what did you believe in regards to Hell?

"Clear as a Bell" .... there, got it.

As with any lesson, confusion can be introduced by how it’s explained, as hinted at by Mulla. I don’t have a problem with my own children knowing that some people don’t believe in God, or believe in things “different” than we do, but I have to agree with GMG; this is the job of the parent. I’m surprised at you Wilstar. You give me the impression that you would be a big advocate for ...more

As with any lesson, confusion can be introduced by how it’s explained, as hinted at by Mulla. I don’t have a problem with my own children knowing that some people don’t believe in God, or believe in things “different” than we do, but I have to agree with GMG; this is the job of the parent. I’m surprised at you Wilstar. You give me the impression that you would be a big advocate for separation of church and state. I think this will fall under a breach in that category (unofficially) when you consider that children are going to inevitably ask “Why?”

The teacher’s obligation would ethically end at stating something to the effect of “People are different. Some people know different things, and some people believe different things.” It would be a short lesson. Would atheists be okay with children taking off with this on their own and talking about Jesus to each other in class (or Mohammed, Buddha, Ganesha, what-have-you)? My oldest already knows some don’t believe, and I’m prepared to deal with that. He’s free to make his own decisions, but I’ve given him his foundation as I’ll do with my youngest and I teach by example; When he sees me praying, he tends to just want to do it too. And HOLY COW … I can’t believe some of the profound stuff that comes out of that 6-yr-old’s mouth sometimes, when he prays … in between asking that friends be blessed, or to get to stay up late and watch a movie :^)

Anyway, I went off on a digression there. The more I think about it … the more I see a possibility for children to go home and ask their parents the hard questions, forcing them to “firm up” their faith in terms of “the whys”. It’s interesting … I could see a lot of possible outcomes, personal to each child and family. At best, it could actually bring some children (probably not the 4-yr-olds) into the faith.

As a Christian, my knee-jerk reaction is to be concerned, maybe a little offended … but intellectually, this could really be spun into something that serves the glory of God. LOL … My perception of this altered while writing it, but I’m going to leave it as is … so EVERYONE can disagree with me ;^)

God … it’s gonna happen, so … so be it. I pray that serves you, in Jesus name. Amen :^)less

" would have done" , JB? So we're at least implicitely admitting here that we know what Bush DID do .... he got congressional approval before going to war (as stated by watchinForHim). You're actually trying to defend Obama on SPECULATION that Bush might have done the wrong thing if given the opportunity???

Prophet & lpepperw ... RevShnorrRocks = One-Trick-Pony. BTW, He's not pretending to be a reverend. He just likes 'Reverend Shnorr' (google for more info) who was a character created on the 'Jerry Springer' show, played by Brian Shnorr (one of the producers?). This should give an indication of the calibur of his intellect.

"God's will will be done, so why pray?" I've asked that question myself. Any Christian aware of God's sovereign nature would. It's a fair question. http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4222457/k.C801/Why_Do_We_Pray_at_All_if_God_Already_Has_a_Plan.htm

Amen. And we should be thankful to God, while we're at it for Francis Collins, who has responded to Hitchens continuously with the Truth (in love), as in Eph 4:15. I would love to see Christopher Hitchens become healthy again, in both body and spirit.

OK ... I've just gotta ask. WHY ... did someone mark 'Report Abuse' on steveh20's response to my comment, below? It really just seems unnecessary :^|

revran, I'll pray for your ministry and your efforts to spread the Gospel, that God's will is for you to reach many. I'll ask others in my church to do the same.

alafoli, Not at all. I just thought you might be someone who liked poetry :^)

alafoli, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring; There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain; And drinking largely sobers us again." -- Alexander Pope.

"You are right, but you don't take the matter further" ... I do when it comes to God's Word and my faith ... that's kind of the point, Steve. I'm not sure if you know it, but you just helped me to demonstrate the analogy.

MereChristian, I totally agree. King Solomon in Eccl 1:9 said, "That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun." I'm a big fan of recycling ... but there comes a point when some garbage should just stay garbage.

BTW, there is of course some knowledge and understanding I have which STILL tries to play havoc with my faith ... BUT, just like an astrophysicist might say, "Strange ... A gas giant should NOT have been able to form THAT close to its parent star." I'm not ready to "give up the ghost" on my faith, in a manner of speaking ;^)

P&H said, "The more you learn, the less you can believe in the myths." ... One problem with that, is that all Christians generally believe in the same "myth" as you call it (with some variations), and not other "myths". Also, your statement implies that knowledge is somehow the inverse of faith, and that as you learn more, you have less faith in current beliefs. It may be that way for you, but ...more

P&H said, "The more you learn, the less you can believe in the myths." ... One problem with that, is that all Christians generally believe in the same "myth" as you call it (with some variations), and not other "myths". Also, your statement implies that knowledge is somehow the inverse of faith, and that as you learn more, you have less faith in current beliefs. It may be that way for you, but I've gone and watched enough of the youtube.com links that atheists have posted or read articles and listened to arguments and as it turns out ... the more I know, the more my faith grows. But I don't stop at the argument ... I dig a little deeper, then a little deeper still ... then think outside the box, postulate an explanation, try to corroborate it, fail, dig deeper again (pray as I'm doing so), then find explanation(s) which are finally satisfactory to resolve the discrepancy to my faith.

Then I dig a little more because it's fun to play Devil's Advocate ... but ultimately, Christ always wins out.

Perhaps instead of being inversely proportional to knowledge ... faith starts to coincide with knowledge on a parabola? :^)less

Thanks, Online4Him. I'll look back at those and pair them up against multiple commentaries, when I get a chance.