Dwights, you said, “many Protestant scholars have long conceded this one to the CC” … Perhaps, from the liberal Jesus seminar but this is hardly dismissed…Ah, James 2:24; this is yet another example of taking a passage out of context; this passage does not support Rome’s works oriented salvation but rather it differentiates between a genuine faith and a professed faith… As I mention...more

Dwights, you said, “many Protestant scholars have long conceded this one to the CC” … Perhaps, from the liberal Jesus seminar but this is hardly dismissed…Ah, James 2:24; this is yet another example of taking a passage out of context; this passage does not support Rome’s works oriented salvation but rather it differentiates between a genuine faith and a professed faith…

As I mentioned earlier Jesus and the apostles referenced God’s Word alone and nothing else; so, there is nothing that supports an extra biblical authority…less

Rev, lol…I too prefer the simple; it is interesting that as we fellowship with others these 'big words' do tend to come up and at times they simply explain the obvious…God bless my friend.

Dwights, Christ and the apostles may not have said, “Alone” but we do know for a fact that both Jesus and the apostles referenced the Word “Alone” when they taught; that is good enough for me ;) Again, the apostles did ‘not’ ordain ‘apostolic successors’ as you propose; they ordained ‘elders’ and ‘deacons’ as God’s Word clearly says…Also, Matthew 16:18-19 is not a pr...more

Dwights, Christ and the apostles may not have said, “Alone” but we do know for a fact that both Jesus and the apostles referenced the Word “Alone” when they taught; that is good enough for me ;)

Again, the apostles did ‘not’ ordain ‘apostolic successors’ as you propose; they ordained ‘elders’ and ‘deacons’ as God’s Word clearly says…Also, Matthew 16:18-19 is not a proof text to support apostolic succession, infallibility, or the establishment of a universal priest; these verses point to Jesus Christ not to Peter. The New Testament as we know was inspired in the Greek language and in this particular passage it uses two different words: ‘petros’ for Peter and ‘petra’ for Christ…Why does Jesus use two completely different word here?

Besides, there are numerous passages that speak of Christ Jesus being the ‘Rock’ and the head of the Church not Peter…less

Now, as to the interpretation of Revelation 20; you said, “This takes place after the second coming”… I would propose that there are multiple and simultaneous events that take place at the beginning of, during the, and after the 1,000 years. For example, we know that the first resurrection takes place at Christ’s Second coming and yet the first resurrection is mentioned in this chapter. I ...more

Now, as to the interpretation of Revelation 20; you said, “This takes place after the second coming”… I would propose that there are multiple and simultaneous events that take place at the beginning of, during the, and after the 1,000 years. For example, we know that the first resurrection takes place at Christ’s Second coming and yet the first resurrection is mentioned in this chapter. I believe we have a general overview of the thousand years in this chapter and other passages as you pointed out specifically point to some aspect of this period of time.

To save time and space here I will share my thoughts [a brief summary] on this chapter; if there is anything specific to discuss I’m sure you’ll ask. At Christ’s second coming he gathers his people which also include those in the first resurrection and they all meet him in the air [1 Thess. 4:16-18; John 14:1-3], at the same time the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of his coming [2 Thess. 2:8], the earth is utterly decimated with no man and Satan is left bound by these circumstances on earth during the 1,000 [Jeremiah 4:23-27; 25:30-33; Rev.20], the saints reign with Christ for 1,000 years in heaven, after the Millennium we descend within New Jerusalem [Rev. 21:2; Zech. 14], second resurrection takes place and the wicked are devoured [Rev.20:9-10], and the LORD creates all things new…less

Rev, thank you for replying and sharing your thoughts on this chapter…Your emphasis on ‘what can be done with the NOTHING but the Bible’ is right; however, as I read your post I noticed that you utilized other passages outside of Revelation 20 to support your conclusion. This is a perfect example of an extended contextual analysis; you gathered additional Scriptural evidence to reinforce wha...more

Rev, thank you for replying and sharing your thoughts on this chapter…Your emphasis on ‘what can be done with the NOTHING but the Bible’ is right; however, as I read your post I noticed that you utilized other passages outside of Revelation 20 to support your conclusion. This is a perfect example of an extended contextual analysis; you gathered additional Scriptural evidence to reinforce what is said in chapter 20. You also took the author’s main and supporting arguments [Structural analysis] about Satan, the judgment, the resurrections, etc. along with the author’s language [Verbal analysis] and tied it all together with the rest of Scripture. Again, weather we recognize it or not we do apply these study guidelines when we read the Scriptures…Besides, all this is gathered from studying the BIBLE…less

Also, I did not say that 'all' of those interpreting guidelines were applicable for every single passage...For example; you do need them to understand that passage that says, ‘Jesus wept’… Respectfully, context does matter as your last post demonstrated; you misunderstood me and inferred that I implied that those guidelines were needed to understand every iota of God’s Word…That is not w...more

Also, I did not say that 'all' of those interpreting guidelines were applicable for every single passage...For example; you do need them to understand that passage that says, ‘Jesus wept’… Respectfully, context does matter as your last post demonstrated; you misunderstood me and inferred that I implied that those guidelines were needed to understand every iota of God’s Word…That is not what I said…less

Dwights, thank you for that clarification…You said, “How could the apostles proclaim the gospel being mere mortals”? This is not a difficult question to answer; the Holy Spirit was to recount to them all that the Lord Jesus had said and taught. Yes, you are right; Jesus alone has all power in heaven and in earth…He gave the great commission to the apostles promising them that he would b...more

Dwights, thank you for that clarification…You said, “How could the apostles proclaim the gospel being mere mortals”? This is not a difficult question to answer; the Holy Spirit was to recount to them all that the Lord Jesus had said and taught.

Yes, you are right; Jesus alone has all power in heaven and in earth…He gave the great commission to the apostles promising them that he would be with them and to his followers forever. This passage however does not mention ‘apostolic succession’ and as we know the New Testament explicitly teaches that all true believers are a royal priesthood. So, with that established there is no mortal man that possesses infallibility…

As for the Bible being infallible; it is the very Words of God, not the words of men…God himself dictated his Word to the prophets and apostles; so, if his Word is not infallible, nothing is! Again, and this cannot be overstated; Jesus and the apostles [always] appealed to the ‘written’ Word and never to any other source.less

So, if I understand you correctly; you are saying in an indirect way that these factors do not matter; that the immediate and extended context of a passage does not affect our understanding of the Bible; right? Again, these considerations do to some degree help us as we study God’s Word and I already gave an example of this by addressing Isaiah 7:14… Since you said that you already understand ...more

So, if I understand you correctly; you are saying in an indirect way that these factors do not matter; that the immediate and extended context of a passage does not affect our understanding of the Bible; right? Again, these considerations do to some degree help us as we study God’s Word and I already gave an example of this by addressing Isaiah 7:14… Since you said that you already understand Revelation 20, I was wondering if you can expound on what you understand about that chapter. If you do not feel compelled to address that whole chapter perhaps you can touch upon the first 7 verses…less

Rev, are you suggesting that none of the before mentioned considerations have any bearing in our reading of Scriptures?

Thanks pepper; feel free to join us...Peace

pepper, you are welcome; was there something in my posts that sounded Calvinistic?

pepper, no; I am not...

Well, you referenced Revelation 20 earlier; similar questions that were asked about Isaiah 7 could also be asked of Revelation 20…

Rev, I am with you about believing what the Bible says; although, as I mentioned before reading the Bible and interpreting what it says does require knowledge about context, background, etc. For example, you asked about Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” Most Christians who ...more

Rev, I am with you about believing what the Bible says; although, as I mentioned before reading the Bible and interpreting what it says does require knowledge about context, background, etc.

For example, you asked about Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel”

Most Christians who read their Bibles whether they realize it or not do use these methods…There is really not enough room here to give a complete and thorough answer but the immediate context [contextual analysis] surrounding Isaiah 7:14 begins with the LORD speaking to Ahaz [verse 10]; so, who is Ahaz? What was his relationship to the LORD? Who is Immanuel? What is the significance of a ‘sign’? What type of language is being used here; is it prophetic, poetic, historical, or allegorical? When did this take place? Why did it take place and ultimately what is the meaning of this passage? As you can see one would naturally have to do a little more research to come to a clearer understanding of this passage and in order to do this they will use one or more of the before mentioned methods…less

Dwights, I did not ask for a review of what that site said; I asked you personally what does Matthew 28:18-20 actually say... I have patiently allowed you to ask several questions all the while knowing the direction this discussion was going; the least you can do is return the same courtesy… You asked, “Were in the Bible does it say the Bible is infallible”? I could give a dozen or more p...more

Dwights, I did not ask for a review of what that site said; I asked you personally what does Matthew 28:18-20 actually say... I have patiently allowed you to ask several questions all the while knowing the direction this discussion was going; the least you can do is return the same courtesy…

You asked, “Were in the Bible does it say the Bible is infallible”? I could give a dozen or more passages that speak to the infallibility of God’s Word but here are two…

“…and the scripture cannot be broken” [John 10:35]…

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away” [Matthew 24:35].

I find it interesting that Jesus and the Apostles continually reference God’s Word but they ‘NEVER’ [for emphasis] quoted the traditions of Rome…less

ihs, all I keep hearing from you is assumptions without any biblical support...You keep referring to the ‘apostles’ but fail repeatedly to reference where they explicitly taught your traditions…

What does this passage say ihs; please explain? "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him" [1 John 2:27].

Rev, that is a good question; there are several factors that contribute to us properly interpreting a passage of Scripture. First and foremost we need to humbly allow the Holy Spirit to direct our studies and secondly, we need to acquire the necessary knowledge that makes this exercise of interpreting Scripture much easier. Objectivity touched on this a bit earlier and I agree; we must conside...more

Rev, that is a good question; there are several factors that contribute to us properly interpreting a passage of Scripture. First and foremost we need to humbly allow the Holy Spirit to direct our studies and secondly, we need to acquire the necessary knowledge that makes this exercise of interpreting Scripture much easier.

Objectivity touched on this a bit earlier and I agree; we must consider the immediate context of a passage [Contextual analysis], view the structure of the author’s main and supporting arguments [Structural analysis], examine the authors language [Verbal analysis], take into account the historical background [Cultural analysis], tie it all with the rest of the Bible [Theological analysis], and finally expound the author’s meaning of the text [Homiletical analysis]. So, these exegetical methods will assist us in our interpretation of Scripture.

So, as I apply the above methods to the Millennium mentioned in Revelation 20 I conclude with you that this period of time is both literal and yet future…less

Rev, what question have you been asking? I thought I would ask here instead of reading an entire scroll of previously made comments...lol

"They don't really want their preconceived notions about the Bible challenged in any way" Ironically, you cannot demonstrate from the Bible where it supports your preconceived notion about human sexuality…