Christian, Muslim Scholars Agree Reconciliation, Conflict Inevitable

SeekingHim »

Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

I would agree that there are many here who "profess" to be Christians. It is sad.
But I'm talking about followers of Christ from other religious backgrounds (not just Muslims, but Hindus, Buddhists, etc.) who do NOT leave those backgrounds, YET worship Christ, BELIEVE and study the Bible as God's Word (not necessarily all of our Christian doctrines which may not come out of the Bible).
Of course, no one can judge faith, and we should be careful that we don't try. It is not our role to determine who has faith and who doesn't. Right?

Christian, Muslim Scholars Agree Reconciliation, Conflict Inevitable

SeekingHim »

Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I'm not sure how you (artm) would explain those who are from a Muslim background who are following Jesus like (some) Christians. There are hundreds of thousands of them.
Certainly a clash between "religions" could be expected.
Certainly Christ has to be at the center of anyone's saving faith, BUT a person does not have to be a part of established "christianity" to be a true believer in Christ.

Most U.S. Christians Back Israel Out of 'Biblical Obligation'

SeekingHim »

Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:41 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

I have no question that the Bible has much to say about Israel.
I don't doubt that Israel is part of God's plan and he will graft them back in (Romans).
I don't think that Israel and the church are the same.
BUT...
There is NOTHING in current history (last 60 years) that demonstrates clearly that POLITICAL ISRAEL equals BIBLICAL ISRAEL.
Just because some Jews took over the land doesn't mean it was God's timing in 1949?
Do you see Israel seeking God before they "defend" themselves?
Are their current actions under instructions of the Lord like it was for David? or others in the O.T.?
There have been so many injustices brought on BY Israel against the Palestinians (and yes, the revers too!) it is amazing that people don't renounce their faith in the God of Israel OR Islam IF they believe that he has led them these last 60 years.
I believe He has not led either faith in this. It is just human sin.

Hagee: Israel Must Control All Jerusalem

SeekingHim »

Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:52 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 5

And people wonder why they (Muslims) can hate us so easily?
How much to we see the leadership of political Israel seeking after God? Isn't that a more important requirement for God returning the land to them than anything else?
There is no solid evidence in the Bible that Biblical Israel is equal with the modern political state of Israel.

Zimbabwean Presidential Contender Relies on God to Defeat Mugabe

SeekingHim »

Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Sorry, I meant: Michelle.

Zimbabwean Presidential Contender Relies on God to Defeat Mugabe

SeekingHim »

Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:31 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Michael and the CP.

THANKS for carrying this story. It is CRUCIAL that we pray for this man. For his safety and for his success. Even if he is not what it seems, he will be better than Mugabe.
MAY GOD CHANGE the situation in this nation and bring peace and hope.

Influential Theologian Troubled by Christian-Muslim Dialogue

SeekingHim »

Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:47 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

Most Muslims do not believe in the "trinity," but we need to understand WHAT they mean.
1. The Koran does not actually use the word trinity (in arabic, it is "three," but the English translation wrongly has "trinity" [there is a long story to that]). In passages that say, "they are not three" actually are probably referring to the H.S., Mary and Jesus.
So...most Christians would with them on that point.
2. I personally know people, who have shared this (and Jesus being God's Son) with Muslim leaders (in fact with many of those who signed the "A Common Word" statement) and had them say that it is a viable interpretation within Islamic scholarship (what I've said above). While they have not changed all of their views, they have realized that these Christians aren't really as wacko as they have been thought to believe.
3. Certainly, there are apologies that are needed on both sides, BOTH historically and currently. Those are issues that WILL come up in any meetings of the two side. Persecution of Christians, treatment of churches, etc.
4. BUT, let's not say that we can't take the first step to reach out and begin a discussion just because we can't start by agreeing on everything doctrinally (what would be discussed then?).
5. Lastly, the Center for the Study of Global Christianity has just released an article stating that 86% of the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist of the world do not personally know a Christian.(Evangelical Mission Quarterly, Oct. 2007, Johnson and Tieszen) That is really said. How will we ever share Christ with them if we don't even know then.

Influential Theologian Troubled by Christian-Muslim Dialogue

SeekingHim »

Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

jenna in the UK:
Be sure when you read the Koran that you remember that the "people of the book" are Christians and Jews. There are many favorable comments about/to those groups.
Also, I know many who have found friendship with a Muslim to greatly help in their own understanding and perspective towards Muslims. If you or others in your church (I assume you go??) don't already, why not befriend a muslim woman (I assume Jenna is a female). As you share your faith (assuming you are a Believer in Christ) focus on Jesus, NOT on Christianity.

Influential Theologian Troubled by Christian-Muslim Dialogue

SeekingHim »

Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:24 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

Help me "Bertha" to know WHY a timeline answers the question as to how Crusades were a good idea for Christianity and why it make them "right" the eyes of anyone? Would it prove to Muslims that we were RIGHT in those actions and motives? (I've found that trying to prove your side or point rarely gets anywhere with people.)
Doesn't being a Christian have something to do with love, grace, truth, etc.
(To try and avoid posts about war in the O.T., most conservative scholars would view the war of the O.T. to be a holy war to establish God's people, but NOT as an on-going strategy. See Kragie's book on holy war in the O.T.)

Influential Theologian Troubled by Christian-Muslim Dialogue

SeekingHim »

Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:08 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

There are so many things to say, that the comment about "angels (not angles) on the head of a pin" almost applies. BUT only if you have your head in the sand. This discussion impacts, directly or indirectly, relationships between more than 2 billion people!
Here are a few points:
1. What we CALL God does not define Him (as if he can be defines by limited humans). There are many things that Muslims and Bible believers (including OT observant Jews) agree on. It should be noted that there are millions of Christians who speak Arabic and use the word Allah for what we call God (in Christianity). By the way, the word "god" has a more pagan background that Allah. I use it (God) because it has been redefined by Biblical history and subsequent Christian history. I would probably use Yayweh if people knew what I was talking about.
2. Christians used the word Allah for God BEFORE Mohammed was born.
3. My concern for Mohler is not how off he may be about the crusades (I think he might have a bit to learn there, even though he reads a book a day or so), but that he just unnecessarily offended millions of CHRISTIAN brothers and sisters in Christ (not to mention Muslims) by suggesting that it would be BAD if we all spoke Arabic. I realize that he is using typical Southern Baptist rhetoric (which Church people like to hear). He is, of course, implying that without the VERY miss guided efforts of the "soldiers for Christ" that Western Civilization as we know it would not be. (As a side point, what does that say of God's sovereignty, which Mohler is very high on?)
I say "unnecessarily offended" because it should be the gospel that offends, or the cross of Christ, NOT Western Civilization or our perspectives on history.
4. Have any of the "nay-sayers" here actually READ the "Christian Response to 'A Common Word Between You and Us.'" Unfortunately, Michael Vu didn't put the link: http://www.yale.edu/faith/abou-commonword.htm
5. You can also read the original A Common Word Between You and Us statement at:
http://www.acommonword.com/
Enough for now.

Influential Theologian Troubled by Christian-Muslim Dialogue

SeekingHim »

Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:23 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 7

What Warren et. al (and me) were thinking was that signing this statement was NOT signing a doctrinal statement. It was NOT listing all the thing that we believe or that are true (which are sometimes different). It WAS starting a discussion. There are MANY issues that MUST be brought up in any kind of discussion. The Muslims do NOT want a dialog with typical "liberals" that don't believe anything but peace. They WANT to engage with those who, like them, hold to solid truth.
Although it is hard to tell because of the comments at the end of the CP post above, I think Mohler may not realize that these efforts are not intended to "give up" any doctrine noted above. They are intended to enable us to get past the influence of the extreme factions in both of our religious traditions.