to joe3eagle who says that the atheist..."claims that because there is no evidence that gods exist, there is no reason to believe that they do." Such a claim by an atheist is quite suspect because the atheist never knows what evidence lies behind another door that he opens. Playing semantics with words does not hide the fact that any conclusion by an atheist about God's lack of evidence is pr...more

to joe3eagle who says that the atheist..."claims that because there is no evidence that gods exist, there is no reason to believe that they do."

Such a claim by an atheist is quite suspect because the atheist never knows what evidence lies behind another door that he opens. Playing semantics with words does not hide the fact that any conclusion by an atheist about God's lack of evidence is premature. There is always more evidence to sift through and is intellectually dishonest. How much sifting is sufficient to make such a claim that there is insufficient evidence. That is quite subjective and unreliable.

At least the agnostic is more honest in not knowing if some future evidence would give credence to God's existence. The atheist is only fooling himself by making a conclusion based on the lack of evidence.less

The reasoning behind atheism is logically self-contradictory. An atheist who lives with meaning is not an intellectually honest atheist. He should really be labelled as an agnostist instead. The atheist claims to know that God does not exist. But he cannot be everywhere or know everything so such a claim is unprovable. The agnostic does not know if God exists. So he is open to that possibili...more

The reasoning behind atheism is logically self-contradictory. An atheist who lives with meaning is not an intellectually honest atheist. He should really be labelled as an agnostist instead. The atheist claims to know that God does not exist. But he cannot be everywhere or know everything so such a claim is unprovable. The agnostic does not know if God exists. So he is open to that possibility. A little more hope here!less

If we really want to examine intolerance in the world, we should look into the radical Islamic Shariah laws of blashemy and the Communist countries where religious groups are persecuted. This "intolerance" in the USA is nothing compared to that found overseas. Are we missing the forest for the trees?

Adam---The attorney general is obligated to defend the laws of the land & to uphold the Constitution. I am referring to the appeal of the judgment from the trial court, not the federal court case itself. One is not to allow one's personal biases to get in the way of serving as an agent of the state. One serves the People, not his/her personal agenda. Granted, AG Brown and Gov. Swartz would...more

Adam---The attorney general is obligated to defend the laws of the land & to uphold the Constitution. I am referring to the appeal of the judgment from the trial court, not the federal court case itself.

One is not to allow one's personal biases to get in the way of serving as an agent of the state. One serves the People, not his/her personal agenda.

Granted, AG Brown and Gov. Swartz would probably
have not have a very robust defense. But at least the question of standing would not prematurely defeat any eventual future appeal. Other sympathetic legal groups can always augment the argument further with amicus briefs.

Now, protectmarriage.org does not even have standing for an appeal. The substance of their argument will not even be at issue. All this was caused by an abdication of legal duties by the AG and Gov.less

Clover---Thanks for taking the bite on the "equality as a virtue" issue. It seems that equality in the Bible is quite different than the western culture's view of it. Christ is equally God in substance as God the Father. Yet Christ humbled himself voluntarily to relinquish some of His divine powers to accomplish the Father's will. Same worth but different relationship roles in the God...more

Clover---Thanks for taking the bite on the "equality as a virtue" issue.

It seems that equality in the Bible is quite different than the western culture's view of it.

Christ is equally God in substance as God the Father. Yet Christ humbled himself voluntarily to relinquish some of His divine powers to accomplish the Father's will.

Same worth but different relationship roles in the Godhead. It take tremendous self-worth to give up one's rights to equality. It takes tremendous faith and trust in God to be treated "unequally."

We are born and bred in this western culture to be obsessed with our individual rights. The focus is always on me, I, and myself.

Jesus lived out the practical application of equality in a very different fashion. He thought outside the box.

"Equality" as a virtue seen in a different light.less

We have some great exchanges on this forum. Let's keep it up. But let's elevate the tone and quality of our thoughts. The challenge before us is to focus on the issues under discussion, rather than to attack the messenger of the message. The challenge before us is to give one another the benefit of the doubt despite our disagreements with one another. Let't attempt to stop any ad homi...more

We have some great exchanges on this forum. Let's keep it up.

But let's elevate the tone and quality of our thoughts. The challenge before us is to focus on the issues under discussion, rather than to attack the messenger of the message.

The challenge before us is to give one another the benefit of the doubt despite our disagreements with one another.

Let't attempt to stop any ad hominem attacks. Let's not shut down debate by simply labeling one another or labeling one another's views as hate.

Let us have a thoughtful and vigorous exchange of honest debate with genuine but respectul and earnest disagreement at times.

Peace.less

Treason was specifically defined in the United States Constitution, the only crime so defined. Article III Section 3 delineates treason as follows: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, ...more

Treason was specifically defined in the United States Constitution, the only crime so defined. Article III Section 3 delineates treason as follows:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

It will prove difficult to prove treason for failure to defend Prop 8,

Elected officials have a duty to defend the Constitution.

But the legal remedy under the charge of treason will be too high a burden to meet.

To defend Prop 8 is to defend the Constitution. Atty Gen. Brown & Gov. Swartz,, failed to uphold the law and got away with it. The next best solution was a political one and to vote them out of office.

But California in its infinite wisdom chooses to elect Brown for another terrm for governor., California will get what it has asked for. What blindness!less

The 9th Circuit is merely asking for the CA SC for clarification on CA state law that is not clearly outlined. Agree or disagree, there is a relational connection between the two courts that needs to be recognized. There is no attempt to defend the substance of the findings of either court. In fact, I hope that the courts will ultimately rule in favor of granting standing tp protectmarriage.c...more

The 9th Circuit is merely asking for the CA SC for clarification on CA state law that is not clearly outlined. Agree or disagree, there is a relational connection between the two courts that needs to be recognized.

There is no attempt to defend the substance of the findings of either court. In fact, I hope that the courts will ultimately rule in favor of granting standing tp protectmarriage.comless

This is where the political intersects with the judicial. If the executive branch is negligent by failing to defend the law then they should be voted out of office. While the legal problem works its way through the system, the political solution is quite simple. Let the voters throw them out of office!

Am 1st ---Good insights into the relationship between the Circuit and CA Sup Ct. Thanks.

Am 1st---This is not a case where Reinhardt is merely dismissing a few statements from several witnesses. This is a situation where his personal marriage relationship is involved. Does the typical husband ever try to please his wife? Ever witness the arguments between a husband and wife where there are strong emotions involved? Are we led to believe that Reinhardt has absolutely no pe...more

Am 1st---This is not a case where Reinhardt is merely dismissing a few statements from several witnesses.

This is a situation where his personal marriage relationship is involved. Does the typical husband ever try to please his wife?

Ever witness the arguments between a husband and wife where there are strong emotions involved?

Are we led to believe that Reinhardt has absolutely no personal emotional need to please his wife?

If Reinhardt were to ever disagree with his wife's views then that would be peachy-keen?

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, then maybe he has such an iron will that he doesn't mind steamrolling his wife at his will and whim.

But perhaps he is human, like so many of us. Do we want to take a chance on such a critical case to never rule out the slight possibility that he might be even be slightly influenced by his wife who has shown to have extremely strong views in pushing same-sex marriage?

Prudence and reason would lead to the conclusion that Reinhardt's recusal would eliminate the all appearances of conflict of interest.

Any future rulings by Reinhardt on this case will, unfortuntately, have the tainted appearance of a personal conflict, no matter how sincerely he states otherwise.

That will be a miscarriage of justice and a rendered judgment that the People cannot trust.less

On the contrary, non-Christians have infinite worth since Christ shed His precious blood so that all humans can be saved from their sins.if they would merely repent and receive Him as Savior and Lord.

Jesus predicted the signs of the end times. It is exactly as you describe. For those who are attuned to His warnings, there is still time to repent. For those who will rush headlong into their own desires, then the time may indeed be short.

It is difficult to dialogue with another person who does not have the same commitment towards faithfulness in biblical interpretation. When the approach towards Scripture is to force the Bible to fit one's pattern of behavior rather than the other way around, then there is no common point of reference. Any attempts to use Scripture would be rendered meaningless in such a discussion since the...more

It is difficult to dialogue with another person who does not have the same commitment towards faithfulness in biblical interpretation.

When the approach towards Scripture is to force the Bible to fit one's pattern of behavior rather than the other way around, then there is no common point of reference.

Any attempts to use Scripture would be rendered meaningless in such a discussion since the biblical standard is not respected.

It merely becomes each person;s personal standard to justify anything under the sun.less

Just throw out some questions... Is "equality" a virtue in all situations? How does the Bible view "equality"? We, in western culture, uphold "equality" as the end all of all virtues. Should it really be that way?

Rhi Bran--The fact that the word "rapture" does not occur in the Bible does not counter the existence of such an event. To ignore this theology on the basis of the absence of a single word would indeed be risky. Theological words are often used to label bibilcal events or concepts. Just as the word "Trinity" does not exist in the Bible too. But that describes the relationship between the F...more

Rhi Bran--The fact that the word "rapture" does not occur in the Bible does not counter the existence of such an event. To ignore this theology on the basis of the absence of a single word would indeed be risky.

Theological words are often used to label bibilcal events or concepts.

Just as the word "Trinity" does not exist in the Bible too. But that describes the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.less

Rhi Bran--I make no personal judgment regarding anyone's eternal destination. yours or anyone else's. My comments are directed to the audience-at-large. Ad hominem attacks of being "self-righteous" does nothing to negate the prophetic existence of the rapture in the Scriptures. Even if I were totally selfish, hypocritical and unloving and hateful, one still needs to deal with the rapture i...more

Rhi Bran--I make no personal judgment regarding anyone's eternal destination. yours or anyone else's. My comments are directed to the audience-at-large.

Ad hominem attacks of being "self-righteous" does nothing to negate the prophetic existence of the rapture in the Scriptures.

Even if I were totally selfish, hypocritical and unloving and hateful, one still needs to deal with the rapture issue as one confronts the Bible individually.

Take the message to heart regardless of the foolishness of the messenger.less

The issue of standing would not have even come up if not for the negligence of then Atty Gen. Brown. Brown refused to defend Prop. 8. He neglected to uphold the will of the people. And yet, many Christians still blindly voted him into the governor's office again! How pitiful and sad that the Calfornia churches have been so impotent in their inability to be salt and light!

Judge Reihhardt should be recusing himself from such a case due to his wife's strong history of advocacy for same-sex marriage. It is inexcuable for him to believe that his wife would have absolutely no influence over his views. Are we that naive to believe that he and his wife do not discuss the politics and legalities of same-sex marriage in private discussions over the dinner table? It i...more

Judge Reihhardt should be recusing himself from such a case due to his wife's strong history of advocacy for same-sex marriage. It is inexcuable for him to believe that his wife would have absolutely no influence over his views.

Are we that naive to believe that he and his wife do not discuss the politics and legalities of same-sex marriage in private discussions over the dinner table?

It is outrageous that Reihhardt would rule in a case where such doubts about his imparitiality exist. Such poor judgment should justify the start of efforts to impeach him from judicial office. This is an raw abuse of his judicial ofifice and power!less

End the blasphmey laws and promote religous freedom.