ELCA Synod Votes Against Allowing Non-Celibate Gay Clergy

St. John »

Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:49 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

darshan, you just don't seem to get it. How do you decide which books are in the Canon? Is the Book of Enoch quoted by Jude 1:14-15 included? Is the Wisdom of Solomon included, or 151 Psalm, the Letter of Jeremiah, Baruch? Is 1 & 2 Maccabees? 3 & 4 Maccabees? Is the Revelation of St. Peter included, or 3 Corinthians? Is the Didache itself included? Or Paul's letter to the Laodiceans? or the Shepherd of Hermas? or 1 Clement? NONE of your lovely quotations answers that simple question?

ELCA Synod Votes Against Allowing Non-Celibate Gay Clergy

St. John »

Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

darshan and believer, these are lovely propagandist statements which find no place in history! Where? Which books? By whose authority? When? How do you know?

ELCA Synod Votes Against Allowing Non-Celibate Gay Clergy

St. John »

Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

great responses guys, but you avoided the question. Which one of those 15 lists from the 4th century are you accepting as Scripture? Believer, so you think the person who wrote II Timothy meant to include his own epistle in his quotation, and more interesting, meant to include other books not yet written? and if so, which ones?

ELCA Synod Votes Against Allowing Non-Celibate Gay Clergy

St. John »

Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:16 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 8

believer and Blacksho89, you can both believe that fantasy if you want, but it isn't true. There are 15 lists of the Christian Canon in the Fourth Century A.D., the first undisputed lists, and no two agree with each other. So which one is the action of the Holy Spirit? and how can you tell?

ELCA Synod Votes Against Allowing Non-Celibate Gay Clergy

St. John »

Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 11

darshan, whence come the Scriptures? They didn't fall from heaven. They weren't authored by a single pen. So who decided what the accepted Scriptures were? and when? Clearly there is some other authority at work here. Christ? Well, Jesus talks a great deal about the Law, the Prophets, and on one occasion the Psalms, but a larger Canon was accepted by the later scribes, and an even larger canon by the Christian Church. So how are such things decided? by some self-righteous statement or propaganda?

Episcopal Diocese Deposes 61 Breakaway Clergy

St. John »

Sat May 30, 2009 8:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Guys, stop overreacting! These conservatives publicly declared they were leaving the Episcopal Church. Okay, the Episcopal Church did not ask them to leave, in fact, the Church encouraged them to stay, but they chose to leave. As a result of their actions and declarations, they were declared to have 'abandoned' the Episcopal Church. They had 6 months to respond to those charges of abandonment, a time period which has now passed, so appropriately letters informing them that they have officially be removed, or deposed, from the Episcopal Church have been sent. The Episcopal Church is only acknowledging what the conservatives wanted them to acknowledge, that they are no longer part of the Episcopal Church. But they chose to leave, and were also welcome to stay. The choice and actions was theirs!

Another Legal Battle Underway in Episcopal Church

St. John »

Fri May 08, 2009 8:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ovidliving, strange but it is the separatists that are trying to take the property of the Episcopal Church with them. They are free to leave without it, but refuse. Tell me again who's focused on property here? If the conservatives weren't focused on property, why don't they just leave?

Maine Becomes 5th State to OK Gay Marriage

St. John »

Thu May 07, 2009 4:49 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

As with the case of slavery 150 years ago, the conservative Bibliadolaters quote their Scriptures (and the Biblical case for slavery is far greater than against homosexuality) but miss the Spirit of the Gospel. Perhaps in another 150 years they will be as embarrassed by their positions as we are now by our forebears.

Rival Anglican Body Approves Dioceses; Finalizes Plans

St. John »

Sat May 02, 2009 8:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

mlreader, no, the Province of Nigeria is not the largest in the Anglican Communion. Though they are large, they are also a young church, and troubled with a variety of issues. Still the Church of England, for example, is twice as large. The conservatives in the Anglican Communion remain a small, but divisive group, that has lost power and influence in the last few years, leading them to desperate and independent actions, outside the Anglican Communion, though they like to think otherwise.

Rival Anglican Body Approves Dioceses; Finalizes Plans

St. John »

Sat May 02, 2009 2:11 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

mlready, also note that the Province of the Southern Cone, which extends over six countries in South America, is one of the smallest Anglican Provinces, while The Episcopal Church (of America) has congregations in 10 countries and has 100 times the membership, not the members the Canadian Anglican Church, which again has about 100 times the membership!

Rival Anglican Body Approves Dioceses; Finalizes Plans

St. John »

Sat May 02, 2009 2:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

mlreader, this group does not seem to have the backing of the rest of the Anglican Communion. The Archbishop of Canterbury has consistently not acted in the manner they wished, so they have talked about ignoring him. The Lambeth Conference of Bishops last year was not what they wanted so a small number of them chose not to come in protest. The Anglican Consultative Council vote three years ago was 34-32 to ask the Canadians and Americans to withdraw for one cycle of meetings, and this vote was accomplished only with the voluntary withdrawal of the Canadians and Americans prior to the vote, or the vote would have gone the other way. The ACC meets again this summer, but the mood has switched as the Canadians and Americans have kept to the Windsor recommendations, while the conservatives have refused to abide by them as far as they were concerned in a self-righteous manner that has lost them support.

Rival Anglican Body Approves Dioceses; Finalizes Plans

St. John »

Sat May 02, 2009 7:38 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

This group, with even its most exaggerated numbers, represents less than 3% of the current size of the Episcopal Church in the US and the Anglican Church in Canada, and gets 98% of the press coverage. They also include the surviving remnants of groups that split off from the Anglican churches in North America in the 1970's over women's ordination AND in the 1870's over broad church tendencies. Some will view them as a faithful remnant, but they are insignificant in reality.

Rick Warren to Address Breakaway Anglicans

St. John »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Origin:
bef. 900; ME prest(e), priest, OE preost, ult. LL presbyter presbyter

Rick Warren to Address Breakaway Anglicans

St. John »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

MickeyC, the English word "priest" is derived from the Greek word "presbyter" which appears in numerous places in the New Testament, and after the Crucifixion. Origin:
bef. 900; ME prest(e), priest, OE prÄ

Rick Warren to Address Breakaway Anglicans

St. John »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:41 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

wow, first, St. Paul was NOT one of the 12 Apostles as ukelelmike suggests. Secondly, the idea that each church was autonomous is certainly not biblical. Paul is writing letters to various churches telling what to do, not suggesting. Secondly, the church in Jerusalem insisted that the church in Antioch send some representatives to explain their actions with the Gentiles. You guys are reading into the texts to find your brand of congregationalism.

Rick Warren to Address Breakaway Anglicans

St. John »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

hackendorf, well said! ukelelemike, did not St. Paul 'oversee' more than one church?

Another Legal Battle Underway in Episcopal Church

St. John »

Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:20 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

ovidliving, we obviously differ on a variety of issues, and I respect you for that. I don't ask you to leave because we differ, and I don't condemn you because I believe that we are both part of the Body of Christ, and one part of the Body cannot say to another that I have no need of you. You can leave the Episcopal Church if you want, but you are not asked to do so. Yet if you do, you cannot take the property of the church with you. That's the issue. And just because you think you are right in your views, doesn't suddenly give you or others the right to take that property.

Conservative Anglicans Reaffirm Work of Rallying for Orthodoxy

St. John »

Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:44 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

believer, I can always count on you for some self-righteous declaration. While Jesus said absolutely nothing about homosexuality, he had a great deal to say about self-righteousness. I guess one only hears what one wants to.

Conservative Anglicans Reaffirm Work of Rallying for Orthodoxy

St. John »

Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:01 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

Please note that both the Episcopal Church in this country and the Anglican Church in Canada have been found to be in accordance with the Windsor Report recommendations and requirements, while the conservatives have continued to break the Windsor Report's request that they cease crossing diocesan boundaries. Who are the 'bad' guys here? Who's not playing nicely with others?

Another Legal Battle Underway in Episcopal Church

St. John »

Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:58 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Remember that Episcopal Dioceses are created only by the General Convention of the national church. They cannot legally separate themselves from that which created them. Individuals can leave the church, but not parishes or dioceses. Those are the rules, and you have to play by the rules, otherwise it is not fair to all the others.