wilstar, Our that such a loving and fair God has to meet the standards of man. If He can't compromise and lower His standards, phooey on Him. Such a method of rejecting God does have a touch of adolescent angst.

believer, you make so many good points. We try to see the Christian life so much as how much you can contribute to the community of believers (congregational life) that we might be missing on how that Christian life applies in the "real world" (mingling with the culture, not getting sucked in, and being a positive light). It's tough being a Christian teen these days, and while we have our area ...more

believer, you make so many good points. We try to see the Christian life so much as how much you can contribute to the community of believers (congregational life) that we might be missing on how that Christian life applies in the "real world" (mingling with the culture, not getting sucked in, and being a positive light). It's tough being a Christian teen these days, and while we have our area Lutheran high schools, those crazy adolescent years can be a challenge!less

I'm not ready to read through all 300+ posts, but has anyone noted that many of the arguments Ehrman used concerning textual variants were used by Mary Baker Eddy in her promotion of the Christian Science movement/cult in the late 1800's. Biblical scholarship back then showed her abuses of text criticism back then.

otf, I surely hope you do understand that translation revision is not an exercise in changing the core message of Scriptures, but strive to reflect the language as it changes. I love the KJV, but recognize I would have a hard enough time teaching the kids about being "circumspect" and avoiding that "superfluity of naughtiness." Besides all this, a good translation only reflects the message fi...more

otf, I surely hope you do understand that translation revision is not an exercise in changing the core message of Scriptures, but strive to reflect the language as it changes. I love the KJV, but recognize I would have a hard enough time teaching the kids about being "circumspect" and avoiding that "superfluity of naughtiness."

Besides all this, a good translation only reflects the message first recorded in the original Hebrew and Greek (and sections of Aramaic in Daniel). The KJV did this well, the NIV followed this same tradition of translation.less

johnzon, You state: >> when Xians stop trying to impose their religion on the whole of society. That never was "our" intention, just merely to have the freedom to express our faith. Paul, in Athens, did not wow the whole crowd in his missionary address on the Areopagus (Acts 17: 16ff), but he drew a few converts. That is what is sought in the freedoms of America, to proclaim the Gospel undeter...more

johnzon, You state: >> when Xians stop trying to impose their religion on the whole of society. That never was "our" intention, just merely to have the freedom to express our faith. Paul, in Athens, did not wow the whole crowd in his missionary address on the Areopagus (Acts 17: 16ff), but he drew a few converts. That is what is sought in the freedoms of America, to proclaim the Gospel undetered by restrictions. If this upsets you, remember that you have been exercising a civil response. Because the gospel must deal with the nature of sin, this can be distressing, but it comes with the territory of spreading the gospel. It's not popular, but this issue of popularity is irrelevant.
The "whole of society" can fend for itself, the ***** community (insert whatever group you feel appropriate, as "gay," or "feminist" or "atheist/agnostic") is exercising its solidarity. But the few to see some sense of this all, the Lewis's, the Flew's, the Morgan's, the McGrath's ... don't begrudge them the chance to see the light.less

P&H, In your usually tendancy towards ambivalence you spout the idea of martyr. There is a vast world of difference between the Christian martyr and the Muslim variety. The martyr of Christ was given a choice of accepting the imperial worship culture or suffer crucifixion for their Lord. The martyr of Mohammed fell with a sword in hand conducting jihad, inflicting devastation as walking bombs,...more

P&H,
In your usually tendancy towards ambivalence you spout the idea of martyr. There is a vast world of difference between the Christian martyr and the Muslim variety. The martyr of Christ was given a choice of accepting the imperial worship culture or suffer crucifixion for their Lord. The martyr of Mohammed fell with a sword in hand conducting jihad, inflicting devastation as walking bombs, and dying in efforts to slay the infidel. Surely you could detect a difference, but such as we must be vilified.
And so the ignorance spreads like so much peanut butter.

And yes, the gospels wer4e written a couple decades after the actual life of Jesus. And with an accuracy that would lead to a so-called synoptic problem of minor variation (one angel or two? one blind man specifically named or two? ...). Even John's gospel, written to proclaim Jesus' divinity clearly was on papyri by the end of that generation. I can't follow your reasoning.
More peanut butter ....less

Just a questionj which struck me while reading this article, and I could use some insight on this one: In the realm of the eternal, what is possible in holding to a sense of duration of time where timelessness rules?

juan, Truth be told, we discuss the concept of plate tectonics in the sixth grade, with introductory concepts to seismic activity in the fifth grade. So the kids in this religious school are on target, as well as many more. IMHO, I beleive for many this seismic activity of bibli ... er, epic proportions is more a matter of timing for "religious types". It's all a matter of your eschatology.

Actually listened in to the Morgan interview with Brian Auten on Apo315. I honestly couldn't determine whether it was Robinson's good posts or the acerbic attitudes of his atheistic colleagues that turned Morgan off toward atheism. the condescension of the "new" atheist is not a positive. Morgan has a fascinating background from Mormonism to atheism to quiet retirement in France. His articul...more

Actually listened in to the Morgan interview with Brian Auten on Apo315. I honestly couldn't determine whether it was Robinson's good posts or the acerbic attitudes of his atheistic colleagues that turned Morgan off toward atheism. the condescension of the "new" atheist is not a positive.

Morgan has a fascinating background from Mormonism to atheism to quiet retirement in France. His articulate recall of his path is hardly from a brain gone soft. His separation from his atheist past was tactful.less

revr, I've been following this discussion on the grace of Christ through deveral posts by now, and I agree that truly understanding this grace is important. So many times I have to remind my students that grace is "God's undeserved love" for the sinner (I like the acronym God's Riches At Christ's Expense to explain GRACE). Too often I felt that many here understand the importance of being justi...more

revr,
I've been following this discussion on the grace of Christ through deveral posts by now, and I agree that truly understanding this grace is important. So many times I have to remind my students that grace is "God's undeserved love" for the sinner (I like the acronym God's Riches At Christ's Expense to explain GRACE). Too often I felt that many here understand the importance of being justified by grace, totally due to Jesus' death on the cross. Jesus did promise His disciples that He goes to prepare a place for us in His Father's House of many rooms Jn 14: 2,3). But there is this insistent voice in the back of our prideful heads that some of us are going to have a jacuzzi and widescreen TV in our room due to our merits. In the end, we can't cheapen Christ's grace by our assumed merits.

I remember Jesus' Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard (Matt. 20: 1-16). All the workers received the same pay. Those who worked extra long felt they deserved more. But that went against the agreement to pay them the day's wage, and against the generosity of the owner. I fear for Jesus "Take your pay and go (v. 14) as a rebuke of merit. Our acts of love and kindness are a blessed gift of the Spirit's work in our hearts, but never should they be seen as a down-payment on our heavenly home. Such would be a mockery of the grace that gets us there.

A blessed day in the Lord.less

Seems to imply that The Silver Chair and Horse and His Boy may be scraped to work on the prequel to the whole Chronicles of Narnia. The Magician's Nephew lays the groundwork for the whole adventures of the Pervensie children, explaining the origin of Narnia and the wardrobe that would whisk the four children to their first encounter with Aslan. I fear that Walden Media will settle for C. S. Le...more

Seems to imply that The Silver Chair and Horse and His Boy may be scraped to work on the prequel to the whole Chronicles of Narnia. The Magician's Nephew lays the groundwork for the whole adventures of the Pervensie children, explaining the origin of Narnia and the wardrobe that would whisk the four children to their first encounter with Aslan.

I fear that Walden Media will settle for C. S. Lewis' genesis story Nephew then move to the apocalypse, The Last Battle. Is it because they believe the whole project is losing momentum and a quick closure is better than commiting to the telling of all seven books of the series?less

PandH, You mentioned > a small statue of a half-naked guy writhing in agony on a wooden cross. Hmmm. You seem to have a complete ignorance of the passion history, an inability to understand its significance in the redemption doctrines devotely regarded by Christians worldwide, and a total insensitivity to those of the faith that contemplate the depths of love of the Self-scafice of Jesus Chris...more

PandH,
You mentioned > a small statue of a half-naked guy writhing in agony on a wooden cross.

Hmmm. You seem to have a complete ignorance of the passion history, an inability to understand its significance in the redemption doctrines devotely regarded by Christians worldwide, and a total insensitivity to those of the faith that contemplate the depths of love of the Self-scafice of Jesus Christ for the sins of humanity.

Having read several of your posts already, you are called peaceandharmony because ... ?less

As a teacher, I have alot of information posted on my walls. I have a chart of the periodic table covering a patch of paint on the wall that is consistently ignored on a daily basis (Quick the atomic number of oxygen ....What is it?) As a Lutheran school, we have crosses, not crucifixes on the wall, declaring the price of redemption, not the agony. The cross is empty, declaring its inability ...more

As a teacher, I have alot of information posted on my walls. I have a chart of the periodic table covering a patch of paint on the wall that is consistently ignored on a daily basis (Quick the atomic number of oxygen ....What is it?)

As a Lutheran school, we have crosses, not crucifixes on the wall, declaring the price of redemption, not the agony. The cross is empty, declaring its inability to conquer the Lord's plan of salvation, removing by a few degrees the fact that it was a method of execution of the worst of the worst criminals.

Extremely glad we have the freedom in our schools to exhibit such displays of our faith.less

Good point online. What good is Christian unity to anyone who may receive from Jesus the message that He never knew that person (Matt. 7: 23)? We have to be loyal to the Gospel of Christ. After all, the LORD always seems to find the remnant, not the masses.

Somewhere in the Apologetics 315 website is a site dealing with the "Fifty Fruits of Pride: A Self-Diagnostic." Truly eye-opening, especially when yours truly frankly admitted close to a dozen seemed to fit. With six of them tugging rather uncomfortably at your conscience. We all need to do sincere heart-searching on this personal demon. Lord, forgive my shortcomings.

believer, Agree with your Hilter rc or atheist statement. But in the final assessment, what did God say on the matter?

> Did you forget to mention Hitler just because he was a Catholic? Clearly the weakest argument offered. A lapsed Catholic = no Catholic. A nominal Christian is no more A Christian than Rambo in "blow 'em away mode" is a pacifist. Alienated by his father, Hitler grew up under the influence of his mother, but whatever influence as a Schicklgruber, it was lost in the bohemian existence as a p...more

> Did you forget to mention Hitler just because he was a Catholic?

Clearly the weakest argument offered. A lapsed Catholic = no Catholic. A nominal Christian is no more A Christian than Rambo in "blow 'em away mode" is a pacifist.
Alienated by his father, Hitler grew up under the influence of his mother, but whatever influence as a Schicklgruber, it was lost in the bohemian existence as a painter/artist in Vienna. His early association with socialism at a time when Germany was devastated by World War One embroiled him in the political process where religious ideas gave over to views of social Darwinism, eugenics, the final solution. His actions revealed a defiance of the God he may have been raised in, but rejected fully.

As Hitler's actions were done beyond the Laws of God he would be a de facto atheist, hardly a Catholic. Having a name in some church's ledger is meaningless. Once renounced, what does a follower of Christ become? An apostate, and such as these are soon avowed atheists, pragmatic if not pronounced.less

Alfoli, >It would be a necessary condition indeed but not a sufficient condition. I don't quite follow you here. If its acceptance of atheistic viewpoint is maintained in the ideology, all its actions would be guided by its foundational position. Atheism, being a religious/philosophical matter would lay the groundwork for all decisions made through the implementation of the ideology. Which i...more

Alfoli,
>It would be a necessary condition indeed but not a sufficient condition.
I don't quite follow you here. If its acceptance of atheistic viewpoint is maintained in the ideology, all its actions would be guided by its foundational position. Atheism, being a religious/philosophical matter would lay the groundwork for all decisions made through the implementation of the ideology.
Which is why I can't follow your analogy. To assert your opinion you must grant your criminal to be "conservative" declaring the necessity. The action is complete in itself, and his "conservatism" is an attendant circumstance, which could explain his motives.
In this case, sufficiency may go by the boards as you have a dead democrat with a conservative as his murderer. This part of your analogy limps. I believe the final deciding factor here would be causation - what prompts one?less

Alafoli, What if the ideology embraces atheism as a portion of its agenda. Would this connection be adequate for you?

Amal, And how many Utopias had humanism acchieved in its storied history? In all the attempts, that unforeseen tendancy towards greed, corruption, oppression, elitism, yada yada just seem to crop up and throw the proverbial monkeywrench into the humanist machine.