Haggard Ends Restoration Process with Overseers

andypro »

Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:13 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 2

Rand,

Your last post on the bible, which you say is filled with "contradictions and inconsistancies" shows where your heart is really at. Satan's first deception was "Did God really say", and now you are doing the same thing today.

You say, "I'm all for following God's Word", but what you really mean is that you're all for following God's Word unless it speaks against your lifestyle, which isn't following God's Word at all, but rather rejecting it wholesale.

Let me ask you this, you have spent this whole thread trying to get us to believe that God does not condemn homosexuality, but then in order to defend your belief system, you give us two whole paragraphs on why the bible can not be trusted.

Here's what you said:

If you actually read the bible, it's filled with contradictions and inconsistencies, vague ideas and statements. Compound that with the fact that there have been tons of documented errors in transcribing the bible during the last 2000 years, the fact that some chapters were removed in the early days, and you have a real mess with trying to figure things out.

If that's true, as you say, that there's no way that you can KNOW with any degree of certainty that God does not condemn homosexuality.

Can't you see the contradictions here. You claim that God does not condemn homosexuality, but when others point to God's word to show you your error, you reject God's word as the standard.

The ironic thing here is that virtually everyone here except you can see what you're doing. It's very simple, you're trying to cast doubt upon God's word, or just plain rejecting it for one simple reason: You don't like what it says.

For nearly two thousand years there has been tons written testifying to the amazing accuracy of the bible; even today, you need only spend two minutes googling to prove that your whole previous post on the bible's 'tons of documented errors' is wildly innaccurate. So why don't you do that? I think we all know.

Haggard Ends Restoration Process with Overseers

andypro »

Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:47 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

Rand,

Thanks for skillfully avoiding my question. Here is what you wrote:

I agree. It's outrageous to think that God would condemn anyone for simply loving another person. Why he made me gay, I don't know, but as Ted has learned, you can't change it. If it's God's will, who are we to question?

I'm asking you this, concerning pedophiles:

If, as you say, "God made them this way", and "they can't change it", then, who are we to question it, right?

You see, your whole premise seems to be that God makes people gay, and therefore we can't judge it as wrong. But what I'm saying is that (according to your logic), God makes people pedophiles as well, but you're more than willing to judge them as wrong (you even did so).

Do you think that it's outrageous that God would condemn a pedophile for simply loving another person? And as you tried to make so clear, if this guy was born that way, than no way can change him, it won't work, right.

But, to answer one of your questions, I DO believe there may be celibate homosexuals in heaven. (I'm not sure about it, nor would I make a theology about it), but here's what I think:

Pedophiles have sinful lusts, and they must repent of their lusts, ask God's forgiveness, and not have sex with any children.

Homosexuals have sinful lusts, and they must repent of their lusts, ask God's forgiveness, and not have sex with any men.

Heterosexual males have sinful lusts, and they must repent of their lusts, ask God's forgiveness, and not have sex with women outside of marriage, nor feed their lust through pornography, etc.

It would be wrong for a pedophile to try to claim that biblically it's Ok for him to be a pedophile.
It would be wrong for a lustful hetero male to claim that biblically it's Ok for him to lust.

And...
It would be wrong for a homosexual to claim that biblically it's Ok to him to have sex with men.

The same standard applies to all, and just like it's much harder for a heterosexual man to have victory over his lust if he constantly views pornography, it will be much harder for homosexuals to claim victory over their homosexuality if they are in homosexual relationships.

Haggard Ends Restoration Process with Overseers

andypro »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:40 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

Oh, and Rand, commenting on your last post, you said this:

I see. So gays are acceptable as long as they remain lifelong celebates. That's a pretty heavy burden to put on us. We didn't ask to be gay, so why should we have to shoulder a burden greater than yours? That simply isn't fair.

I am a 43 year old male, I've never been married and, because of my belief in God's word, I am still a virgin. And because I believe in God's word, I not only know that fornication would be a sin for me, but also lusting in my heart after women.

So, my response to you questioning God's 'fairness' is this: wouldn't you say it's probably much harder for a heterosexual male like me, who's constantly bombarded with images of females, to stay pure; than it is for a homosexual, where the bombardment of male images is much less instense?

You see, to me, and most other males, the idea of not lusting after women seems almost impossible. (Can I get an Amen!) So, if I struggle with that and sin, I will go to God and repent and ask His forgiveness, but I WILL NOT pretend that parts of the bible no longer apply to me just because they seem hard to obey, and I WILL NOT spend hours on message boards trying to rationalize my sin so that I can both defy God by my actions and yet claim Him as my God.

But that's just me.

Haggard Ends Restoration Process with Overseers

andypro »

Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:28 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

Rand503 -

You've asked people here to answer questions, so now I'll ask you to answer one:

I recently saw a news item about a 50+ year old man who admitted to being sexually attracted to young (8-10 yr. old) girls. Also, I'm sure that this is not an isolated incident, that many older man are attracted to young (very young) girls and even boys.

My question to you is this:
Would you consider this wrong behavior in any way? I mean, by your logic, God has created many, many men who view very young children with sexual attraction - So, if you are to be consistant, you'd have to agree that there's nothing wrong with their attraction, right? And also, since God made them this way, how can you, or I, or anyone insist that they be celibate? And mean, it's very easy for you and me to sit in judgment of these guys and just tell them to "Go and have a loving relationship with someone their own age", but as you have shown in your posts here that it would be quite narrowminded for us to think that way. (As a matter of fact, it seems that you would say that it's impossible to change them).

So, would you consider it WRONG for a older mature man to be attracted to a 9 year old girl? Yes or no.