Evangelical Richard Cizik Re-Emerges for Green Cause

cajb11 »

Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:57 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Someone blamed Cizik on Rick Warren. Is there anything that Rick Warren is not to be blamed for by some? :(

Saddleback Church Trains 2,400 New Members; Baptizes 800

cajb11 »

Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

(Not sure what happened with last post....cut my Post 1 of 2 in half. So is this now 2 of 3? LOL)



......has anything to do with â

Saddleback Church Trains 2,400 New Members; Baptizes 800

cajb11 »

Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

POST 1 of 2

Thank you for your post and pov Delight. Initially I was answering the very first question in the thread about baptism, an important and fundamental question no matter what church is being discussed.

Let me address some of the things in your last post to me:

1. As a member of Saddleback for 23 years I can say unequivocally that sin is not soft-pedaled and EVERY sermon that has anything to do with â

Saddleback Church Trains 2,400 New Members; Baptizes 800

cajb11 »

Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Noticed on my last post I did not clearly say bit it was implied that if someone's previous baptism was not by immersion we asked that the be baptized again by immersion. I didn't want anyone to get the impression they were just out of luck as far as being a member or in a leadership role.

Saddleback Church Trains 2,400 New Members; Baptizes 800

cajb11 »

Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

If I may comment as a former staff member who worked on the "Membership Team" at Saddleback. (Then this team also headed the massive small group program, MOP's, Men's Ministries, etc. It's not an "expensive marketing program". Rather, it does take work to oversee 3,000 plus small groups, various ministries, and they take the church membership question VERY serious.

Saddleback, being a Southern Baptist church, does not believe in baptismal regeneration (being saved by baptism) but rather believe it is an outward symbol of our acceptance of Christ as our Savior. Not salvific at all. It is making whole the two parts of "making believers" AND "baptizing them in Jesus name". They are separate but commanded.

All members of Saddleback have to be baptized by immersion in a Bible believing church. They will list the church in which that baptism was made and it checked, not that we don't believe them but that we understand it is a church that agrees with the church's stand on baptism. If anyone has not been baptized by immersion, be they sprinkled as an adult or a baby, they are politely explained what Saddleback believes and why. The goal is not to offend but to hold to the convictions of the church. The vast majority completely understand. Any person who wants to lead a small group, be a volunteer teacher, or a leader of any kind must be a member of the church. It is a way also to guard against a misunderstanding of what the church believes and avoid confusion with any abberent doctrine. Of course all, member or not are welcome to attend anything.

Saddleback does teach the gospel in the membership class, Class 101. In fact, typically 10% of those attending come with the intent of being a member, and when the gospel is presented they realized they have not made that commitment of faith and do so in the class.

I think someone ask about missions and evangelizing. That is taught in Class 401 and has it's own very large missions team. It is a four-hour class as well. The PEACE program is not only a "social" cause as some seem to think. It is also to share the gospel. I have heard it said over and over and over.....well, you get the point. And it is taught at Saddleback. But also as is taught in the Bible, we are to take care of the widows and the orphans. That in itself is a fulfillment of the word of God. But it is done with the premise of evangelizing those whom you serve. Who could in good conscience look into the face of a child orphaned by parents dead of AIDS, share the gospel only, and then move on?

Unfortunately any time you are high profile you will take the arrows. Goes with the territory. Sad so many of those arrows come from fellow believers who have really been misled by so called "discernment ministries".

I hope I have answered some questions that were asked. :)

Huckabee: Life is Perishable; Either Use It or Lose It

cajb11 »

Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:42 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

I think there need to be some real grace extended to Huckabee. I was at Liberty University in the heyday of the Moral Majority. It was idealistic but a worthy effort. Did it work? To the degree that it reached the goals they set out to achieve in abortion, special rights for homosexuals, taxes, Israel, etc., it's a mixed bag but overall I would say no. It did however awaken Christians to their duty to be involved in their government process if nothing else at least by voting. In a book written by ex-MM executive and journalist Cal Thomas, Falwell agreed that it was more important to change the world through faith and not the ballot box.

Huckabee? Why should we excoriate a brother who is a believer but wants to engage in the marketplace of ideas? Christians are not required to leave their brains at the exit of the church door. We all have much to contribute. My only caution is that we don't say the government is the answer and we don't identify God with a specific political party. There is no reason to be offensive to a non-believer where an offense is not necessary. The gospel is already an offense according the Bible. Let's deal with that one. That's the essential one....and the life-giving one.

Rick Warren: Culture Influenced by Change of Hearts, Not Laws

cajb11 »

Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:48 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

As sure as morning follows night people will criticize Warren at any mention of his name.

It just is not accurate he does not preach against sin or immorality in his church. Having been a member for 20+ years, I know. My background prior was very traditional and conservative, not an unsuspecting "unchurched". Methodology different, message not.

In 04 Warren sent an email to members of Saddleback telling them what he thought were non-negotiable issues for him as Christian when he votes. They included anti-abortion and special rights for homosexuals. In '08 Warren was blasted for advocating against gay marriage.