Report: More than Half of Britons Have No Religion

citsonga »

Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Well 1man, you put a lot of stuff out there, which I have to say is well thought out and I can agree with a good part of it.

"Facts are only the result of being, existence, and/or actions. Information is gathered and is considered fact....yet no fact will give you the answer to life"

You are probably correct on this point. Science can tell us how, but not why.

" even if science can pinpoint beginning in it's own eyes will never give purpose to any of it, what then are they searching for? To gain more knowledge...what a futile thing (in the respect of evolution)"
Good point, good question. At times I don't think there is much point ultimately, but I dont dwell on it much, mostly think about philosophical topics of this nature over a few beers. I guess I just figure what it is, is what it is and leave it at that. i dont concern myself with the hereafter particularly I like science because I find it interesting. In all probability I figure the knowledge I have accumulated in my brain will probably be lost when the heart stops and the O2 stops flowing to the cells. But again, I dont think about it much. I learn for the now, and leave the future, for the, ah, the future. I hope that makes some sense to you. I dont think I have a need to be thinking of an afterlife. I figure when the light a re out so to speak, they are out and it wont really matter.

"Surely you can't really acknowledge all that evolution concludes as fact?"

It might


"In response to know everything lets have truce, this is a Christian Post in verity this is a place for christians to communicate, so in like manner you kind of ask for scrutiny upon your beliefs also. Granted we have contradicting worldviews we must find a point of reference in order to communicate intelligently without being condescending."

Well stated my friend

Got to go, its getting late... thanx for you thought provoking comments.

Report: More than Half of Britons Have No Religion

citsonga »

Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Mr seedplant, one other thing, you posted "the only thing citsonga knows how to do is spout off with straw man arguments."

Please point out the "straw man arguments", I would like to know what those might be. Let me thank you in advance of your response to these inquiries.

Report: More than Half of Britons Have No Religion

citsonga »

Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Mr. seedplant, I thought your religion was about love and understanding. Whats all this character assassination stuff? I'm rather disappointed in your conduct.

rather than insulting me, allow me to repost my question to you from an earlier post from you:

seedplant "Citsonga, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to take a little more self-initiative in educating yourself."

in reference to??????

Please point out specifically my flawed comments. Perhaps they require clarification, I would be happy to do that.

I would also like to thank agentorange for reminding you that I am an agnostic, not an atheist. Also, I have no idea what you mean by naturalist. Please tell me what that means. I know what a naturalist is in my own mind, but I suspect you have something more sinister in mind.

Republicans Split on Huckabee Staying in Race

citsonga »

Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

It's ironic that those who are so adamantly advocating "save the embryo" and "the fetus" in America have no qualms about permitting a war of death and destruction on the peoples of Iraq

Iowa Prison to End Religious Program that Prompted Legal Fight

citsonga »

Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Well slack, thanx for sharing that with us, now the atheists of the world can practice a religion by praising and worshiping a non-entity.

Farrakhan's Praise Heightens Obama's Messianic Image

citsonga »

Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Question:

What does the anti-christ and unicorn have in common:

-


both are mythical.......

Republicans Split on Huckabee Staying in Race

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

To paraphrase SqueakyWheel:

Anyone who voted for bush will, in part, have one's hands stained in the blood of America's wars and executions. Now that one has read this, one cannot plead ignorance before the throne of God.

Republicans Split on Huckabee Staying in Race

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

SqueakyWheel ,

Almost no one favors abortion, sometimes it is necessary to protect the life of the mother, and yes genetics testing can now detect severe abnormalities in a fetus. It should be up to the mother of the fetus to decide whether to end the pregnancy- not you, not the government, not the church.. Instead of going back to the days of back alley abortions prior to the legalization of abortions in the US. There needs to be a harder push in the US for sex education and free contraceptives to all that want them. That will result in reductions of abortions. There are many reasons for a woman to choose an abortion, its a personal decision that needs to be left to the individual.

I find it interesting that so many Christians are critical of Sen Obama because he supports a womans right to choose. Yet they support Bush and his invasion of Iraq which has resulted in the wholesale destruction of the country and the death and injury of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's. A war in which the US had no moral authority to engage in. Bush was also a strong advocate of capital punishment in a state which which is biased to the execution of the poor and indigent- little in the way of resources to defend themselves. Instead of erring on the side of caution to eliminate the possibility of executing innocents, the state of Texas had the highest number of executions than any other state while bush was governor. So, bush, and his Christian supporters are all about saving fetus and embryo's, but little else. I believe thats called hypocrisy.

Republicans Split on Huckabee Staying in Race

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

wrhalver "But McCain cannot ignore the more conservative side of the Repubilcan Party (and the influencial Christian leaders) who favor Huckabee."

Yeah, you make a good point there, mccain could make him a running mate if he believes it is necessary to get out christian votes in large enough numbers to overcome the democrat. But, he wont like it and either will I.

thanx for the feed back.

Student Club Aims to Proselytize Atheism

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Star2 Thanks for you reply, however I really dont see anything significant in your post that could be described as scientific fact if you will. You list that the stars and the moon are apparent, so what. You [Bible] seem to list the sun and stars being different, the sun is a star. I dont see any where that the earth IS NOT the center of the universe. Up until the time of Copernicus and Galileo, religious dogma was that the earth was the center of the universe and that the planets and sun revolved around the earth. The Bible, as far as I can tell teaches nothing about the nature of the universe.

Republicans Split on Huckabee Staying in Race

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

wrhalver "The Republicans should consider Huckabee for a high ranking cabinet position."

Thats unlikely, mmcain would not want a person like Huck in his admin.

Republicans Split on Huckabee Staying in Race

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Conservative Voter:
"McCain may think he has it all in the bag, but I'm fixing too stay home come election day if McCain runs for office, He he's not someone I'd send too the White House, he's not a fair man."

As an Obama supporter, I like the fact that you will be staying home on election day.

Republicans Split on Huckabee Staying in Race

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ProfessorX: "Truly truly I say unto you. If Mike Huckabee's voice is not heard somewhere in the white house, Barak Hussein Obama will be the next president of the United States. (period) And thus we will be living in the age of antichrist right smack through the tribulation to horror of many."

Huck destroyed any chance of becoming president by announcing he would amend the US Constitution to make it a more "Christian Nation". He may not be aware that in the very first amendment, it starts out "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...." Sen Obama on the other hand is a constitutional law professor and recognizes the importance of the first amendment, thats one of the reasons he will make a good and effective president.

Huckabee Surprised by Hagee's McCain Endorsement

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:15 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

profX "we will be living in the age of antichrist right smack through the tribulation to the horror of many "

Yeah, they were saying the same thing about JFK. Whenever an intelligent, articulate leader comes around the world, Christians bring up the mythical antichrist.

McCain Gets Endorsement of Texas Evangelical Leader

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Huck states he wants to amend the US constitution to make it a more "christian nation" huck has no chance after making statements like that. The vast majority of Americans are not interested in the establishment of a theocratic "Christian States of America"

.......Go OBAMA

McCain Gets Endorsement of Texas Evangelical Leader

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:25 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

profX "we will be living in the age of antichrist right smack through the tribulation to the horror of many "

Yeah, they were saying the same thing about JFK. Whenever an intelligent, articulate leader comes around the world, Christians bring up the mythical antichrist. Good luck with that professor

Huckabee Surprised by Hagee's McCain Endorsement

citsonga »

Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:22 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

s_vawter, Thanks for your feedback. Thinking and intelligent people can disagree on much of this stuff, its all very complicated as you rightfully point out. I guess really what I am trying to convey, is that its not simple good guys vs bad guys in the ME as most Americnas I think want to beieive. Its all gray and that the US in the ME represents its interests, not necessarily the interests of the people of the ME. Thats what countries do I suppose. You mention theocratic imperialist, I dont disagree with that. What I would say though is they have gained momentum for the reasons I mentioned. The way to fight them is not the way the US is doing it now. You can't fight guerrilla war with large standing armies as we are attempting to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have to be smarter than that. We should have learned that lesson from Vietnam. It will (is) only wearing us down and bankrupting our country. bin Laden maybe spent a million dollars pulling off 9-11. What has the US spent on the so-called "war on terror"? Its in the trillons of dollars and counting, its not sustainable, we have to get smarter about it. Well I am worn out, and stating to ramble a bit, perhaps we can continue this dialog later. Have a good night.

Huckabee Surprised by Hagee's McCain Endorsement

citsonga »

Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

OK Slacker, fine I understand your point. But lets not try to fool the American people and the rest of the world into believing we invaded Iraq to "liberate" its people. Lets tell it like it is, and what Iraqis and most other people in the ME already understand- Its all about OIL, not liberation. We should also tell the American people that there is a cost associated with our meddling in the ME to protect those oil interests-- terrorism from the ME in the form of 9-11. We should also convince the American people that the US government needs to tack on at least an additional $ 2 to 3 gallon tax on gasoline to fund the war in Iraq and US military presence in the ME to protect other oil suppliers such as Saudi Arabia instead of borrowing hundreds of billions of dollars per year to fund the US military in the ME. All we are doing now is passing those costs onto the next generation and turning the US into an even larger debtor nation which is beginning to undermine the US economy for the long term. Its been over thirty years since the Arab oil Embargo, we have had that amount of time to get our energy house in order. We have done none of that. Americans want to continue driving their fuel hog SUV's,there is little real interest in energy conservation. Americans want fairy-tails about ethanol and drilling in ANWAR to solve our energy problems. Ethanol is not the answer and the US does not have enough oil to meet its demands even if we were to drill in every location in the US.. What we need is conservation. Tack on 2 to 3 dollars more on gasoline to pay the real cost , and we will begin to see that conservation.So where the US is at now is this - the US is literally killing for oil. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's have died and been injured along with the whole sale destruction of their country since the US "liberation" of Iraq. However, Americans really don't want to be reminded of all, so I am really wasting my time, oh well. At least I make an attempt.

Huckabee Surprised by Hagee's McCain Endorsement

citsonga »

Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

s_vawter: "Taking the approach that the attacks on 9/11 are because the U.S. and europe have been messing with the middle east is rather narrow, don't you think?"


Well extremism is many times a product of oppression. ME dictators have oppressed millions for decades, in Syria, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia to name a few. Extremism is the product of oppression, thats what we are now seeing. If you take the time to study the history of the ME after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent carving up of the ME by the Europeans and the US to suite their strategic interests (mainly oil) you would understand my thesis. The west has supported those dictators for decades. For example, examine the history of the overthrow of the Iranian prime minister in 1953 by the US and Britain to put the Shah in place - to protect US and British oil interests. If not for that intervention in 1953, Iran might very well be a democratic republic today. bin Laden had been warning the US to remove it military bases from Saudi Arabia for years. The US did not, so we witnessed 9-11. The US would not tolerate the presence of foreign military bases on its soil, why should the peoples of the ME tolerate foreign militaries in their countries. The reason the US military had bases in Saudi Arabia was to protect US oil interests as it has been doing for decades. The US military was in SA, to protect the corrupt ruling royal Saudi families as well. Saudi Arabia is a theocratic autocracy controlled by the corrupt royal families. Woman in Iran have more freedom than SA. In SA woman cannot even drive cars. just as the dictator Shah of Iran was a US ally before he was overthrown in a popular revolution, the Saudi Royal family is an ally of the US, actually business partners. The US sells SA weapons and protects the royal families position of power with the US war machine, they sell the US oil.. Again, a very similar arraignment between the Shah and the US before the Shah was overthrown. Lets hope the US is not on the wrong side of history again if and when the SA royal family is deposed. The US invasion of Iraq has only worsened the situation in the ME. The US will have to continue to spend hundreds of billions of dollars per year for years to keep hostilities tamped down in Iraq. Iraq was part of the ME carve-up I mentioned earlier, people that did not normally associate were forced together, thats why we see civil war in Iraq today. There was no Iraq proper before the fall of the Ottomans, the borders of Iraq are based on almost arbitrary lines drawn on a map by mainly the British, the borders have little historical context.

Huckabee Surprised by Hagee's McCain Endorsement

citsonga »

Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

s_vawter "When did Huckabee say he'd amend the constittution to make this a more christian nation? Which speech, specifically?"

see the link below, you cant make this stuff up, its real i heard it myself on "Meet the Press"

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Huckabee_Amend_Constitution_to_meet_Gods_0115.html