ELCA Head Reports 'Painful Days'

cjconner »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:47 pm Agree: 10   Disagree: 2

After the votes, the mainline media put out articles right away with titles like, "ELCA Split Unlikely"- well, they were obviously wrong. Hanson tried to create the perception in the press, but the movement to leave the ELCA is so strong, for the first time he failed.

This really is only the beginning. Most Churches won't take this issue up until their annual meetings in January, and then it will take another 6 months after that for decisions to be made. Look for the real body count around July or August 2010.

The ELCA has an average congregation size of 110. The churches that are leaving now are its largest and strongest. I think there will be little left to the denomination when all is said and done.

The denomination has had the same national budget for 20 years- about 80 million dollars- through all the inflation and even in economic prosperity. I think we will see it cut to about 60-65 million by this time next year, and probably down to 45-50 million the year or two following that.

Going against the Word of God is the path of destruction.

The Idolatrous Religion of Conscience

cjconner »

Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:55 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

This is a great article. There is one wrinkle, though, that the ELCA introduced that wasn't addressed here: Equally Valid interpretations of scripture, in their view. Their argument insists that through contextual critical methods the verses about homosexuality can be understood in different ways than we do now- that the biblical language isn't definitive, and so a theology embracing homosexuality as a blessing from God is possible.

I think I'll add to this conversation a little later, but I served as a vicar under Bishop Mark Hanson 10 years ago in Saint Paul, MN, and he was a radical GLBT activist then. He was told "no" by one committee one day, turned absolutely red, and then a short time later established the sexuality studies. The animus that came over him was chilling. This was personal for him- and still is- and I think at the end of the day if he had to choose between the survival and prosperity of the ELCA, and winning this argument- the good Bishop would much rather win this argument and let the ELCA sink like the titanic, or crash and burn like Amelia Earhart's plane.

Christ Calls Us to Be Neighbors to Immigrants, Says WCC Chief

cjconner »

Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

This movement has been taken to absurdity in Minnesota. Last year when H1N1 broke out, and migrated here from Mexico, the public schools refused to educate parents about it for fear that it would raise "anti-immigrant, anti-mexican" sentiment. Good progressives they were who made this decision to not send information home in multiple languages with the children whose parents were here illegally- so as not to make them feel bad.

out of the first 3 children deaths in Minnesota, 2 were children of mexican migrant workers. The racist absurdity of not intentionally targeting the illegal population with the information they needed to protect their children was part of this "progressive" mindset that to do so would have been mean spirited and hurt their feelings.

Well, now that their children are dead, I bet those illegal immigrant parents are mad that nobody told them or informed them in the state of minnesota about the H1N1 virus and how deadly it could be.

There needs to be some balance on the illegal immigrant issue. The WCC and the NAE both fail to realize the true life and death implications of some of the positions they are advocating and how they inform the policy that is set by government and church. That is neither justice, nor loving the neighbor, nor following Christ's mandate for the "other." Sometimes, in the case of how Minnesota failed to warn illegal immigrants of the problem, some might construe this radically progressive posturing as contributing in some significant ways to death, poverty, family instability, and a new kind of racism that would rather let illegal immigrants die than not be seen as a radically liberal ultra politically correct good progressive.

ELCA Bishops Urge Obama Stay Committed to Mideast Peace Efforts

cjconner »

Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:37 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

The ELCA has been the leader in fashioning a new approach to militant anti-semitism. Their involvement with de-stabilizing the Jewish state of Israel is astounding. You can read about it here:

http://revcjconner.com/?p=293

ELCA Bishops Delay Changes to Ordination Policy

cjconner »

Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:55 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

A Church in Golden Valley, Minnesota, just pulled over 1 million in benevolence from the ELCA. That's just one church. The ELCA treasurer urged local "synods" to expand their fiscal contingency planning. The largest, most vibrant, and most generous ELCA churches are the ones that are leaving. Having worked in some of the Churches that would be staying, I can tell you, they don't give much to the ELCA. The Churches that are leaving are the ones that give the most.

'Ardi' Reverses Common Understanding of Human Evolution

cjconner »

Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

The dumbest thing is that these "missing link" anti-creationist people take 1 single skeleton or find and say this is the norm for such and such a time. BIRTH DEFECTS people! If they found thousands of such "specimens" they might have a case, but to find one only indicates that they found the remains of a person born with a birth defect. The bodies of people born with severe birth defects often do not resemble a fully formed human being, BUT- we can still tell they are human.

Traditional Lutherans Mull Alternative Path

cjconner »

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:49 pm Agree: 16   Disagree: 1

The attendance at this event has topped out at 1400, just over 900 congregations represented. The assembly's purpose IS to establish the charter documents for a Lutheran Synod outside the ELCA. Over the next few months, you should anticipate many, rather most, of those assembled to lead their congregations out of the ELCA.

Some Lutherans Return to ELCA After Gay Vote

cjconner »

Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:49 pm Agree: 18   Disagree: 1

An interesting story, I suppose, but it really reflects a very small percentage of a small percentage of "voices" in the elca right now. According to a recent internal survey, nearly 1000 congregations have already planned their steps to leaving the elca. I doubt any congregations will be returning to the elca who may have left in the past, and individuals who are returning really are such a minute number- people who leave and find a new church home don't just pull up and leave their new "church" family if it's the kind of church they want to be in. As for the messaging of some of the "reformers" like the pastor who says that "our loyalty is to the elca"- nobody is listening to him. The few "evangelical catholics" that there are in the elca are so small- and even many of them recognize that nobody is stepping to their drum. Lutheran theology does not hold that a Christians loyalty is to a denomination- it is to Christ and the Bible- and any notion of schism that evangelical catholics bring up has been widely dismissed by the average elca lutheran since the votes- leaving the elca for most individuals and congregations is not schism, but actually re-uniting to the one True, Holy, Historic, Apostolic Christian Church.

ELCA Leader Urges Flock to Continue Conversation

cjconner »

Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:53 pm Agree: 14   Disagree: 1

623 ELCA congregations are already planning their first votes to leave the ELCA, with many many more to follow I am sure.

This guy Bishop Hanson seems to lack a strong theological and moral center and foundation. He is leading the Church of Christ- or at least he was- not UNICEF or the Children's Defense Fund. He has advocated this direction for the ELCA the last 15 years at least, and got what he wanted. Ten years ago he told Nigerian Bishops that he would listen to them about their opposition to practicing gay clergy if they would re-consider their position on polygamy- and the Nigerian Christians had centuries ago already rejected polygamy. Not a good man here- I think- he is deceptive and he knows it. His social justice and social service "work" is not God's if it is done outside the theology of Christ- and the ELCA has long ago left Christ and His Church with their wholesale rejection of scripture, the virgin birth of christ, the resurrection, it is widely taught across the ELCA in bishops offices and academia that Christ did not die to forgive sins, but to serve as an example for us in the fight for social justice.

What is there to talk about Mr. Hanson?

ELCA Opens Ordination to Noncelibate Homosexuals

cjconner »

Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:47 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 5

Getting this done was virtually a personal vendetta for Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson. He has worked for more than 10 years now to stack candidacy committees, refused to substantively discipline congregations that called practicing gay pastors, personally advocated and pushed through Anita Hill of Saint Paul, attended her gay marriage festivities, allowed gay marriages to be advertised and take place at the corporate offices in Chicago. The 69 million dollar sexual abuse case against the church over Gerald Patrick Thomas was a case where the ELCA guided him to a gay friendly bishop, Kevin Kanouse, who knew the story about his previous problems with boys, but still placed him- where he molested some 14 boys and then was sentenced to 369 years in prison. Then there was the 105 million dollar case in Brick New Jersey related to a homosexual pastor. These actions at this assembly, folks, really only codifies and formalizes what has been going on in the ELCA for years. Anybody with children should make a hasty dash for the exit if you love them enough to protect them.

Lutherans Narrowly Adopt New Sexuality Statement

cjconner »

Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:28 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

Flagged as inappropriate. show "This church" Tornado knocks down cross atop Central Lutheran Cathedral during debate on the sexuality study. http://www.revcjconner.com hide

Should the United Nations Protect Religions from Defamation?

cjconner »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:59 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

"darshan as one infidel to another, we Christians have a long history of violence to other religions"

RhiBran - I'm not aware of such a history. Are you referring to the Crusades? If you are, let's thank God for them. The Church tried to stop the ruthless expanse of Islam- whose adherents beheaded whole cities of people who would not accept Sharia law. Certainly you can agree that violence is sometimes necessary to restrain the violent in the world?

Evangelicals and Politics

cjconner »

Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

The reformer Martin Luther said that we live our lives in two kingdoms, the kingdom of the world and kingdom of heaven, but that our citizenship is in the kingdom of Heaven. Hence, we must oppose with every fiber of our being anything of our government that violates our conscience and christian identity. To read more about Luther and the Two Kingdoms:

http://revcjconner.com/?p=323

ELCA, Episcopal Church Heads Question Israel Over Denied Entries into Gaza

cjconner »

Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Dawani and Younan are both Hamas sympathizers, and refused to accept anti-terror clauses in money they receive from U.S. organizations. Neither the ELCA nor the ECUSA require that the millions they send Dawani and Younan does not get used to support Hamas, or terrorist activities. I would bar them from Gaza too. Read the article, "The New Anti-Semitism"- http://revcjconner.com/?p=293

Warren Praises Invitation of Gay Bishop for Inaugural Prayer

cjconner »

Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Iconoclast:

You are wrong about Martin Luther when you said:

(He was also zealously anti-semitic, but we'll skip that for now.)

see: http://www.revcjconner.com

What has Happened to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness?

cjconner »

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Folks who say that the Bible has nothing to say about abortion obviously have not read their Bibles. Despite the fact that there is a whole discussion in the bible about killing your young, the overarching principles that speak to the value of human life, as well as over-arching principles that speak to any number of modern day issues that were not around during ancient times, clearly form the scaffolding upon which any true Christian must reject abortion as an evil in society.