Was Jesus Tolerant?

djt0711 »

Thu May 07, 2009 3:05 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 8

I would warn anyone who happens to read these comments to use extreme caution should you visit the website listed in DBA's comments. Among other things he venerates the heretic and cultist Herbert W Armstrong and based on looking over a few of his other articles clearly denies some of the essential and basic teachings of the Bible.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. I John 4:1

Was Jesus Tolerant?

djt0711 »

Thu May 07, 2009 2:58 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

D.B.-A.,

Such as the sin of self promotion? I would disagree with your comparing Christian sinners who have a heart for evangelism to that of the Pharisees in Jesus' day- those we can be certain of as described in Scripture were also self promoters who had little if any concern for those sinners they thought were beneath them (Luke 18:9-14, Matthew 23:13-15). The Scriptures do teach us that anyone who will not repent of their sin and continues to cling to it is not born again, but Christians will continue to sin (cf. 1 John 1:8-10 with 1 John 3:4-10). Before I was a Christian I was a sinner chasing after sin. Once born again I am now a sinner running away from sin. (James 4:7, 1 Corinthians 6:18) Or, on other words, just because you stand in a garage does not mean that you are a car- just because someone goes to a church does not mean they are a Christian.

Was Jesus Tolerant?

djt0711 »

Wed May 06, 2009 10:12 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

So often we try and justify our involvement with the world to excuse ourselves into that which we should have no part of. This article uses selective Scripture mining ignoring that Christ not only excoriated the hypocritical religious leaders, but also that Jesus often said and did things that caused His so-called disciples to turn away from Him (John 6:66-69). How does that fit in the concept of tolerating sinners while not tolerating their sin? Unfortunately the truth is that the majority of people who have lived and ever will live will cling so tightly to their sin that they will be identified by it at the End (Matthew 7:13)- there is no way to separate the two and, quite frankly, they clearly would themselves choose not to (Revelation 16:8-11 ). Who do we think we are to try and do that for them when clearly God Himself will not? If we are in their midst, and we MUST be (1 Corinthians 5:9-11), then either they will reject Christ (1 Samuel 8:7) or repent and believe before Him. If we do not elicit such responses up to and including Philippians 1:27-30, if our "toleration of sinners" does not elicit persecution, we can be certain we are tolerating the wrong things.

Was Jesus Tolerant?

djt0711 »

Wed May 06, 2009 9:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

Also, to the point of, " We must love hanging out with them and they should love hanging out with us. ", that should be totally impossible. Again, to Psalm 1 & 139, while we can express love to them so long as they choose to remain an enemy of God how can we "love hanging out with them"? Jesus loved us all enough to die for us- loads of fun that was, right? But also, if while we are "hanging out with them" we should have a rock solid testimony which, quite frankly, will be a stench in the nostrils of those who continue in their condemnation (cf. John 3:18)- we remind them that they are dying in their unrepentant state and we STINK to them to the point of hatred (cf. 2 Corinthians 2:14-16). Verse 17 completes the thought of what ought to be are reasoning for reaching the lost.

Was Jesus Tolerant?

djt0711 »

Wed May 06, 2009 9:44 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

I think that the correct view would be that Jesus was tolerant of repentant sinners, which in His case may have included those He foreknew would repent. It is clear that Jesus will be exceptionally intolerant of sinners when it comes to the Final Judgment, and we have many passages that teach us how are to deal with contemporary unrepentant sinners. e.g. Psalm 139:19-24, Matthew 7:6, Psalm 1 I think the Matthew 7 vs is telling, but that it is not for us to decide who fits the description, but rather we let the individual reveal who they are and tailor our actions using God given discernment. Some people simply will not tolerate the truth- while we may be tolerant enough to be near them, if we are so tolerant that we do not speak the truth what would be the point?

'Historic Night' Caps Week of Success for Joel Osteen

djt0711 »

Fri May 01, 2009 10:06 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

And why did we stop at verse 1 when the teaching of this passage is not that we are not to judge, but that we are to judge from a proper frame of mind and in obedience to God. In other words, deal with your own sin first so that you can move on to help and protect others from their sin. Judge with mercy, judge with discernment, judge in love, but judge!

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"How Can We Know If Our Faith Is Real?"

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Issues&Answers/635

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:59 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Indeed we are saved by grace through faith and NOT works, but it must be the type of faith that results in good works. Our salvation is not defined by perfection in our lives, but rather the direction our lives are headed in- whereas we were once sinners chasing after sin, we who are saved are now sinners running away from sin.

Salvation IS based on works according to the Scriptures- you can try and be saved by your own works which the Bible explains will end in failure (Romans 3:20), or you can be saved by the work of Christ. You will not be saved by your own works.

igh- you speak as a fool and lead me to believe that you are either seriously misguided, or you are the very "wolf in sheep's clothing" you accuse jb of being and enjoy aggravating others. You might rightly accuse anyone in any given blog of being a bad writer or even having bad theology or a lack of properly conveying their message, but it is ridiculous to believe you can come to a conclusive understanding of a person's standing before the Lord based on a few short sentences. You are not alone in having suspicions about others based on what they write, and unfortunately you are not alone in spouting those assumptions out loud.

In spite of your assertion that you can judge another based on their behavior, you cannot judge anything other than the behavior and act accordingly. In a church setting sometimes the action is to put a person out of fellowship, or have nothing to do with them at all.

I wonder when you say, "i stay at home and Study with God." this means that you do not attend church . . . ?

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

prophet,

If a person who is "gay" chooses to not act upon such urges, would that not mean that they are no longer "gay"? They may be tempted to choose to return to that sin, but just as I am not an adulterer unless I act upon such a temptation they are not homosexual unless they follow through.

I do not think you mean to convey that simply not participating in a certain sin means you are saved- plenty of unsaved people choose to not sin, but they yet refuse to confess Jesus as Lord.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/IA-james2.htm

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Jesus, while praying to God the Father, said,

"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." John 17:17

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:10 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

hlerwin,

Not at all- although it is not for anyone posting here to decide as far as I know- certainly it is not for me to decide, but if it were I would be glad to continue the dialog. My point was that you seem to have a real attachment to your agenda while seeming to claim you do not which most people do, but as kboswell asked, what is it that you base your beliefs on? Since you appear to not believe in the absolute truth of the Word of God then my question is, What is the point?

I would liken this to an atheist's desire to shut Christians up- if the atheist is correct then when he fights against the proclamation of the Gospel he in essence is fighting against- nothing.

If you do not believe in the truth of the Word of God, what is it that you have that we should all believe in?

Again, it was not my point to say you are not welcome here, but if you do not turn to Christ fully and totally the day will come when you will feel truly unwelcome- this is why many people respond to you- out of truly caring.

"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!' Luke 13:27

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:49 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

“I'll try later, folks.”
hlerwin,
I guess another good question would be, “Why bother”? What do you hope to accomplish if you are not trying to convince anyone of your point of view?
kboswell asked a very good question which was likely part of your response that was too long to get through, but what do you think you know that could possibly undo the Word of God?

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:15-16

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:38 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

“I certainly do not claim to be a prophet.”

hlerwin,

Unfortunately you do not get to choose some “middle ground” nor claim neutrality when it comes to life and what you have to say and what you believe:

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.” Matthew 12:30

As to those trying to get you to believe as they do you are wise to be cautious- this is why I choose to turn to what God has to say. Yes, you can find truth all around you (“but there is truth in both”), but there is only one place you can turn to for truth that saves you from your sin- your sin, the end of which leads to death.

For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Romans 10:16b-17

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:20 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

“...I guess I didn't see the love in your comments.”

Troyg,

He said, "Go and tell this people: " 'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.'
Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
Isaiah 6:9-10

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:11 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

"To simply quote Holy Scripture every time an opposing view is encountered is not going to win the day."

hlerwin,

You greatly misunderstand life and truth- the day does not need to be won by any of us- it is already won by the Lord and His resurrection is proof of this, but since that event is also detailed in the Word of God which you so blithely describe as "outmoded" maybe you do not believe in this either. This is a real and serious problem for you according to Romans 10:9

Many of those here who know the Lord through His Word and by the power of His Holy Spirit intend our posts not as an attempt to "win", but rather as an attempt to warn and to stand for the truth, something we are commanded to do and have to work overtime to do as we are surrounded by false prophets like yourself.

Maybe we should all revert to quoting from 40's and 50's musicals instead- now THAT will certainly win the day against the eternal Word of God . . .

"Some enchanted evening; you will see a stranger . . ."

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" Revelation 6:15-17

You are my friends if you do what I command. John 15:14

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:23

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:56 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

hlerwin,

and one more:

Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

Isaiah 5:20

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:55 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

hlerwin,

and again:

But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

1 John 3:5-10

Episcopal Gay Bishop, Partner Joined in Civil Union

djt0711 »

Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

hlerwin,

If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. Matthew 5:29

Rhode Island Court Denies ‘Divorce’ to Lesbian Couple

djt0711 »

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

btw- I made one small error myself- I should have typed "logical" teachings when referring to Darwinism since there is nothing logical about it.