FO wrote: "People would not be called straight or heterosexual if there were no gay people, there wouldn't need to be a word for it because everybody would heterosexual." And we would not need the word 'caucasian' if there were not also other races. Again, what is your point?

"Listen to the vitriol in the voices of the fundamentalists, and compare that to the gay people, the atheists, and the *real* Christians here." Nope HM, I'm afriad you are mistaken on that. That was my vitriol. FO was just citing my post. That statement of mine was in response to FO saying, "The only reason you are called gay is because of your sexual interests." Which I stand by as truly stupi...more

"Listen to the vitriol in the voices of the fundamentalists, and compare that to the gay people, the atheists, and the *real* Christians here."

Nope HM, I'm afriad you are mistaken on that. That was my vitriol. FO was just citing my post. That statement of mine was in response to FO saying, "The only reason you are called gay is because of your sexual interests." Which I stand by as truly stupid.less

"People would not be called straight if there were no gay people, there wouldn't need to be a word for it because everybody would be the same." And Mathetes, I could say the same in reverse. That just signifies there are two distinct orientations. What is your point? "The only reason you are called "gay" is because you choose to have sex with someone of the same sex." HAHAHAHAHAHA! That ...more

"People would not be called straight if there were no gay people, there wouldn't need to be a word for it because everybody would be the same."

And Mathetes, I could say the same in reverse. That just signifies there are two distinct orientations. What is your point?

"The only reason you are called "gay" is because you choose to have sex with someone of the same sex."

HAHAHAHAHAHA! That makes no sense. Let me give you a little tutorial. Among human beings, all of us have a sexual orientation. Most are heterosexual. A small number are homosexual. That is just the way it is.

Gay people don't 'choose' anything. Why on earth would anyone 'choose' something so against the grain, something sure to bring them misery and pain due to the discriminatory antics of people like you? Why?

"I have stolen things in the past. So that makes me a thief. Once I was saved, I knew that was wrong. I don't steal anymore. Even if I have a desire to."

I'm glad you're not stealing anymore. (Although most of us don't steal because it is wrong, not because we are afraid of a supernatural being in the sky.) But I don't see the relevance. The behavior of stealing, something we all have control to either do or not do, is what made you a thief. There is no immutable characteristic that makes anyone a thief. Thieving behavior makes them a thief.

There is no behavior that makes people gay. They are either gay or they are straight. It is an immutable characteristic. See the difference? A straight man can have gay sex (like in prison because there is no one else to have it with) and he is still straight.

A person's sexual orientation has to do with who a person naturally feels their romantic love and sexual attraction for. Not who they actually engage in sexual acts with, that is a behavior. I can have sex with a woman tomorrow, but that would not make me heterosexual because my natural attractions and romantic love are for men.

"You can stop having gay sex, and then you won't be sinning! Sometimes we have to give up our fleshy desires if we want to truely be saved."

That is just plain stupid. Why in the heck would your supernatural god care who I have sex with? I swear, the crazy stuff you come up with!!less

"Ah, but mickytaker, it took Christ to change me." You blame your becoming a bigot on your god. Not exactly the way to act as a sheperd for your faith or convince anyone to sign up. "Come join our church! Bigoted and proud!" No thanks.

"The only reason you are called gay is because of your sexual interests." What kind of stupid statement is that? Would you also say, "The only reason you are called straight is because of your sexual interests"? It's a matter of simple fact that human beings all have a sexual orientation. Either heterosexual (majority) or homosexual (minority). Big deal. It is but one tiny aspect of all our ...more

"The only reason you are called gay is because of your sexual interests."

What kind of stupid statement is that? Would you also say, "The only reason you are called straight is because of your sexual interests"?

It's a matter of simple fact that human beings all have a sexual orientation. Either heterosexual (majority) or homosexual (minority). Big deal. It is but one tiny aspect of all our lives, except of course for hookers.

Honestly, why do some of you christians constantly obsess about such things? Don't you have anything better to do than fixate on who someone else falls in love with or has sex with? Sickos!less

"In most of the US now, if two men expressed affection for each other the way Jesus and His man did, they would be at serious risk of physical assault." Quite true. And with the successes of the so-called "panic defense," those guilty of the assault might well receive reduced sentences or even be off the hook completely.

"What other evidence do you have for making such an outrageous claim?" Just a thought, but how many 33 year old men do you know who have never had sex with a woman?

"It's a Christian forum, not a bigots' forum." Can I have an AMEN!!

"What I meant was people come on here flaunting their sexual interests and expect us not to comment against it, on a Christian forum, come on. . . .what do you expect, you all know our view on this subject." RaeJae, I fail to see how being honest about one's identity is "flaunting" anything. I think heterosexuals kind of have the market locked up when it comes to flaunting sexual interests. Las...more

"What I meant was people come on here flaunting their sexual interests and expect us not to comment against it, on a Christian forum, come on. . . .what do you expect, you all know our view on this subject."

RaeJae, I fail to see how being honest about one's identity is "flaunting" anything. I think heterosexuals kind of have the market locked up when it comes to flaunting sexual interests. Las Vegas, pretty much an TV show on prime time. Come on, who is flaunting sexuality here?

Free speech applies to all Americans, not just some. If some christians (or anyone else) want to express theirs in the form of bashing a group of innocent Americans, don't be surprised when that group pushed back, Sweetie.less

"As an atheist you do not believe in God. So then your intentions are not directed for God's purposes, but for your own." Such a sadly ignorant and woefully common misconception. The idea that one is either on god's side or their own side is ridiculous. I, for one, am on the side of humanity as a whole. I can't imagine being on any other side. I don't make my decisions based solely on per...more

"As an atheist you do not believe in God. So then your intentions are not directed for God's purposes, but for your own."

Such a sadly ignorant and woefully common misconception.

The idea that one is either on god's side or their own side is ridiculous. I, for one, am on the side of humanity as a whole. I can't imagine being on any other side.

I don't make my decisions based solely on personal gain. That would be selfish and childish.

I also don't make them based on what other people told me some unknown supernatural being wants me to do. That would be foolish.

I make my decisions based on what is the right thing to do to accomplish advancement of the human species, principles of fairness, and constitutionality in our great and fabulous USA. To do anything else is an abdication of responsibility.less

". . . .or stay off a Christian forum, where people can't get into your well aired lives?" Can you explain to me what a 'well aired' life is?

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." I don't do that. When I lie with womankind it is merely as friends. So does this mean god only really hates bisexuals?

"1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred. 2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded lying with abomination. 3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action." Then there we have it: christian anti-gay bigotry is an ABOMINATION.

"I suggest you don't engage in whatever you think you shouldn't but stay out of other people's lives." Can I have an AMEN!!!

"It's not being homosexual that is the sin, it is the act of homosexual sex that is sin." Faithful One, that is just plain stupid. Who is harmed by the act of homosexual sex? I mean, we all can easily articulate who is hurt by a liar, a cheater, a murderer, a rapist, a thief, etc. On the other hand, who is hurt by gay sex? Nobody. If you can't use your brain to MAKE SENSE out of your reli...more

"It's not being homosexual that is the sin, it is the act of homosexual sex that is sin."

Faithful One, that is just plain stupid. Who is harmed by the act of homosexual sex?

I mean, we all can easily articulate who is hurt by a liar, a cheater, a murderer, a rapist, a thief, etc. On the other hand, who is hurt by gay sex? Nobody.

If you can't use your brain to MAKE SENSE out of your religious book, then what good are you? If you sign up for your religion, then use it as a weapon against people who clearly are not hurting anyone, really: what good are you?less

"What is your definition of the word abomination?" Ooh, can I jump in here? According to Leviticus I'm pretty sure menstruating women who attend church are an abomination. And trimming one's hair is an abomination. Working on Sunday is an abomination. Wearing cotton blend fabrics is an abomination. Men who engage in intercourse with menstruating women are an abomination. Eating pork is an ab...more

"What is your definition of the word abomination?"

Ooh, can I jump in here?

According to Leviticus I'm pretty sure menstruating women who attend church are an abomination. And trimming one's hair is an abomination. Working on Sunday is an abomination. Wearing cotton blend fabrics is an abomination. Men who engage in intercourse with menstruating women are an abomination. Eating pork is an abomination.

Am I right? Do I get a prize?less

"garageguy, I never felt uncomfortable with homosexuality in my life, untill I was saved and my eyes were opened to the truth." Congratulations on what your religion has turned you into: a bigot.

"If God said it was alright to be in a same sex relationship, we would then be bigots for going against him, but this is not so." Get off your high horse, RaeJae. There are many, many, many people of religion (including christians) who have no problem with gays. Your failure to abstain from bigotry is your problem, babe. Why don't you admit it: homosexuality makes you uncomfortable, so you f...more

"If God said it was alright to be in a same sex relationship, we would then be bigots for going against him, but this is not so."

Get off your high horse, RaeJae. There are many, many, many people of religion (including christians) who have no problem with gays. Your failure to abstain from bigotry is your problem, babe.

Why don't you admit it: homosexuality makes you uncomfortable, so you find some tenuous garbage in your bible to support your personal inability to cope with it? So, so weak.less

"He shouldn't be trying to help other people come to Christ and be healed, and be in a leadership position, until it is certain that he's been cured and is no longer wanting to commit homosexual sex acts in his basement." Not sure what you mean by 'cured' but I doubt old Teddy is going to have any gay sex for a while. That poor duped wife is gonna watch him like a hawk. As for his sexual ori...more

"He shouldn't be trying to help other people come to Christ and be healed, and be in a leadership position, until it is certain that he's been cured and is no longer wanting to commit homosexual sex acts in his basement."

Not sure what you mean by 'cured' but I doubt old Teddy is going to have any gay sex for a while. That poor duped wife is gonna watch him like a hawk.

As for his sexual orientation, he is gay. Always was, always will be. Just like straight people will always be straight.less

"The more I read these threads, the more it seems that the core of the argument against gay rights is that we'd then have to face the horror of having to treat gay people as humans deserving dignity and love just as any of God's children deserve. That's pretty sad." Cindy, I think you are exactly right. Once we reach the point where secular fully protects gays and lesbians, anti-gay bigots will...more

"The more I read these threads, the more it seems that the core of the argument against gay rights is that we'd then have to face the horror of having to treat gay people as humans deserving dignity and love just as any of God's children deserve. That's pretty sad."

Cindy, I think you are exactly right. Once we reach the point where secular fully protects gays and lesbians, anti-gay bigots will look to all the world like what they are: bigots.

No one wants to think of themselves as the bad guy. I'm sure the KKK would rather be able to legally discriminate against blacks too. Thank god we have a constitution to ensure that minorities are not bullied by the majority.less