Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

You wrote:
"God is only one God. That is unquestionable. But He is three expressions"

This definition is very close to Modalism. The United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches hold to this view, but all other Christian Churches reject it as heresy.


You also wrote:
"And to take our finite minds and try to understand infinite things outside of His Word, is spiritual suicide."

You mean such as the concept that the earth is not the center of the universe? In the 1600s, the Christian Church taught that the earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it, and cited scriptures for it.

If the whole world conformed to Christian interpretation of God's word, we'd still believe it today.

Yet, scientists went out into the reality of God's creations and found evidence of his truths, OUTSIDE Christian interpretation of scripture.

What did they find? Truth.

Did spiritual suicide occur? No.

Going outside traditional Christian interpretation of the Bible is necessary to avoid spiritual fantasies.

Prominent Evangelical Scholar Takes on Mormonism in 'Christian' Debate

james »

Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worship Jesus Christ of Nazareth, he who is the Word of God in the Bible. Mormons affirm and believe that He is the Creator, the Savior, and the Redeemer of the world. These beliefs qualify Mormons as Christians. According to Mormonism, Jesus Christ is a self-existent being that has been creating worlds for an eternity.

However, Mormons are different from other Christians in that they do not accept many traditional Christian beliefs such as Creation ex nihilo, the Orthodox Trinity doctrine or the Creeds of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th centuries, which were written by Catholic councils, sola scriptura, and other post biblical additions to the New Testament Church. The Creeds are not scripture, and therefore cannot count as a scriptural measurement.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

All:

It's time to move on to more weightier things.

Thank you for the chat and the debate. You'll probably see me around a few more times on other articles. I wish you all the best in your lives and hope you find peace and prosperity. I'll leave room for hope that you'll find the fullness of the gospel someday as well.

Remember,

James 1: 27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

and,

Matt 25:40
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Hawk:

You find Mormonism to be false because you want it to be false. You look for contradictions from anti-Mormons but fail to look any further. Anti-Mormon sites and especially Evangelical Christians have a bias when reporting about Mormonism. They will leave out any information that invalidates their criticism.

Atheists love to point out contradictions between the Old and New Testament or within the New Testament and we encourage them to understand that there are reasons why such contradictions appear so.

Did yo know that anti-Mormon sites continue to leave old criticisms up that have been refuted or outright disproved? I ought to know, I have studied anti-Mormonism for about 23 years.

Hawk you want your tradition to be true and you will selectively admit only those evidences or consider those sources that prop up your desire and the picture that you want to see. Yours is a subjective process.

In truth, Mormon theology and philosophy are superior to traditional Christianity and within a few decades science will sweep away old Christian traditions - there will be simply too much evidence to ignore.

Recently, two Book of Mormon settlements were found. And those Egyptoligsts who claimed that no Egyptian papyri have been found connecting Abraham with a Lion coach scene? Recently found too.

For me, as much as I would love to stay around and debate, other priorities are calling.

I wish you well in your search for truth.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Mat:

You wrote:
"Yeah, James, I saw it after I posted it. I can't keep all your false books straight."

No, you just don't have the intellectual strength to admit that you just made a mistake. You continue to make knee-jerk reactions to scientific truths that refute traditional Christianity interpretation of the Bible and existence.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop's last comment got cut off at the end... I finished it for him to accurately represent reality.

"All the truth to substantiate my comment has been posted and found to be accurate..IN MY MIND ONLY."

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Mat:

The term destroy never did and doesn't now mean that the elements cease to exist. It refers to the destruction of the formed structure of plants, animals, humans, rocks, etc.

But we don't need an end of the world cataclysm to witness this power in action - we can see what destruction an active volcano does with its molten lava.

The point is Mat, you're going to continue to lose when you argue against existence.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

You wrote:
Mormonism is a false doctrine created by a false prophet who stole theories from other scientists and claimed them to be "given to him by God."

Oh this otta be good.

Prop identify the explicit theory by name and the list the particular scientist from which Joseph Smith happened to steal a theory, that was later proven correct.

And please add to that, how did Joseph Smith pick all the right theories that just happened to be proven later?

Mormonism affirms the true Godhead found in the Bible - namely, the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, three separate beings, unified in one will, who Stephen both felt and saw when he declared:

Acts 7:55-56
"55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."

Mormonism affirms that the supreme work of Jesus Christ is to lift all humanity, to his throne to be a joint heir with him,to the Father, if such will follow and hearken to his word and commandments:

Rev. 3: 21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Traditional Christianity changed the Godhead (New Testament definition) into the Catholic Trinity (non-Biblical word and definition) and turned from the greatest gift of God, namely of sitting with Jesus in his throne. Traditional Christianity has no knowledge of or power to teach men or women how to obtain this greatest gift.

Mormonism is reestablished New Testament Christianity - and what did those New Testament followers of Christ call themselves? Saints.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints offers the truth about the Bible and about existence.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Mat:

By the way, D&C refers to Doctrine and Covenants, not the Book of Mormon. And yes, I am still saying that the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenants do not contradict one another.

In fact, the information below will show you that your translation, the New American Standard Bible is incorrect. Interestingly enough, the NAS was created in 1963 by an Evangelical Christian group, the Lockman Foundation.

As we'll see, if a doctrine is not in the King James Version, Evangelical Christians will find a way to make a "NEW" translation of the Bible more compatible with their traditional Christian doctrines. Christians complain because the LDS Church has the Book of Mormon, but nonetheless, Christians continue to "add" to the Bible.

How about we check the Greek?

Will come but day of lord as thief, in which the heavens with hissing noise will go beside, elements but being intensely hot will be loosed, and earth and the in it works will be found. (2 peter 3:10 Greek interlinear translation).

King James Bible
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

American King James Version
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The Greek, and the King James Version are exactly in line with what we now know about the true nature of elements and how they react to pressure and heat.

They can be "loosed" and reduced to their basic energy structures. Yet, they are ETERNAL, neither created or destroyed.

Once again, Mormonism and Mormonism's version of the Bible is on the right side of existence (and the Greek).

Thanks for "trying" Mat but you're always going to come up short when you argue against existence.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

Former Christian beliefs that have been discarded:

* The earth is the center of the universe and creation.
* the sun is the center of the universe and creation.

Future beliefs that will be completely discarded:

Craetion ex nihilo
The Orthodox Trinity

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

In the 1630s the Great Christian Church cited these scriptures saying that Galileo was teaching heresy for revealing that the earth was NOT the center of the universe.

Ps. 93: 1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Ps. 96: 10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

Ps. 104: 5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Eccl. 1: 5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

1 Chr. 16: 30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

It wasn't until 1825 that the Church stopped banning Galileos books!

Today the Christian Church continues to hold to Creatio ex nihlo and a young earth when science has once again disprove their doctrines.

Joseph Smith is the religious Galileo. You are the old Christian Church trying to tell us that the earth is the center of the universe.

And...we know how that one worked out for the Christian Church.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

Emotionally reacting to these facts is not going to improve your claims.

You have presented no evidence that Joseph Smith has lied about principles of theology that have been confirmed by scientific facts.

The Genesis account is not literal. You continuing to assert it like the Christian Church continued to assert that the earth is the center of the universe.

Have you not studied the history of Christianity and its major blunders in the recognition of cosmological realties in the past?

Aristotle ( 384 BC to 322 BC) asserted a geocentric view of all existence; the Earth became the center of the universe and ALL heavenly bodies revolve around it. This was the gospel truth for most of the world through New Testament times, through the emergence of the Universal Christian Church, through the time of the famous Church councils and creeds, and through the Reformation. Catholics and Protestants asserted the same views: the Earth is the center of motion of the universe. This remained Church doctrine for most Christians until Galileo Galilei in 1610.

Today, Galileo is considered the father of modern observational astronomy, the father of modern physics, the father of science, and the father of modern science. Through the influence of Copernicus and his telescope, he asserted that the Earth was NOT the center of the universe, but that it was the Earth that revolved around the Sun. (Heliocentrism)

These discoveries directly contradicted Christian Church doctrine. The Church cited Psalm 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, Ecclesiastes 1:5, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 as direct scriptural evidence that Galileo was guilty of blasphemy. The Christian Church forced Galileo to recant his discovery that the Earth revolved around the sun on penalty of death. To save his life, Galileo recanted.

Later it was confirmed that Galileo was right and the Church was wrong about Earth and Heavenly bodies. Today you can thank Galileo and other scientists for the knowledge and the truth about the Earth and the Sun; not because the Christian Church interpreted the Bible correctly, but because those scientists persisted in establishing the truth.

Now jump ahead almost 400 years. What are the confirmed scientific realities that contradict Christian Church doctrine today?

* The Laws of Conservation of Matter and Energy directly disprove and refute Creation ex nihilo

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop (1)

You wrote:
"Did Joseph explain whether these "days" were thousands of years? Or millions? I assume by your posts the he, and you, believe that these "days" were billions of years, since that's what is the supposed evidence. Am I correct?"

1. Joseph Smith explained in the 1830s and 1840s that the process of creation took a very long time. The scriptural basis for this is the Doctrine and Covenants, the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses. While not specifically revealed, Joseph Smith reasoned that the earth was older than 3 billion years old, using his revelations as a point of reference. Why is this significant? The astronomy of his day was that the Sun was only capable of maintaining power for only a few hundred thousand years. Therefore, Joseph Smith's revelation and explanation were contrary to the known scientific principles of astronomy of his day. This changed in 1853, nearly ten years after Joseph Smith's death, when Helmholtz's postulate changed that number from thousands to millions of years. That the Sun can sustain power for billions of years is now scientific fact.

Joseph Smith revealed in 1840 that the creation of the Earth was in the context of an ongoing process belonging to God the Father's creation of innumerable earths, with separate stars, and heavens (galaxies), through the power of his Son, Jesus Christ. He revealed about God's ongoing work: "And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works."

2. This revelation in 1840 of the former and current creation of stars and galaxies coming into existence represents verifiable astronomy today. It wasn't until 1922 when conclusive proof of separate galaxies (heavens) was discovered.

3. It is significant that the teachings of the restored gospel on the eternal nature of physical matter, along with a parallel in the spiritual realm, embody these conservation principles. These are key statements:

"The elements are eternal" (D&C 93:33).

The Laws of Conservation of Matter and Energy proved this principle in 1906.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop: (2)

4. Addressing the issue of creation ex nihilo, Joseph Smith asserted in one of his final sermons:

"Now, the word create does not mean to create out of nothing; it means to organize; the same as a man would organize materials and build a ship. Hence, we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos-chaotic matter, which is element. Element had an existence from the time [God] had. The pure principles of element are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be organized and reorganized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning and can have no end." (HC 6:308-309).

5. All of the principles above have their basis in reality and in modern scientific principles.

6. What does Evangelical Christianity have to say?

"We believe that God created everything out of nothingness even though the Bible doesn't say so, and although modern Bible scholars don't say so, and although modern science has proven otherwise. But, we's gots ta save the creatio ex nihilo doctrine and Catholic Trinity (that was invented by a Gnostic Christian) at all costs, even at the expense of reality!" (Smile)

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

Are you finally doing some research appealing to history instead of your interpretations based on your narrow view of existence? Wonderful!

But you've missed the mark again.

Neither Kant, Darwin, or Lamark hypothesized that the earth is 1) billions of years old or that 2) matter and energy can neither be created or destroyed, or 3) that this earth is just one of the many creations of a long process of earth-creations, that has lasted for an eternity in the past - and locally for billions of years.

The issue isn't "hypothesis", prop, the issue is being CORRECT.

So, no Prop, Joseph Smith didn't pull something out of thin air, randomly choosing scientific hypotheses of the day.

He revealed an complex and elaborate Theology that is consistent with the Bible and revealed science, which now enjoys scientific support.

Compare that with the blunders of Christianity - Joseph Smith wins hands down.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:
"Now you're talking semantics. I view the earth as being created (in other words...in it's current state) when Adam and Eve came on the scene."

This is why you make several errors in judgment and identity. You are relying on your personal consciousness without any knowledge of existence or proper identification of principles in reality.


This is very simple.

Either 1) Genesis 1 is not a literal description of the creation or 2) it is a literal description of the creation.

Science has confirmed that the earth did not "come into existence" 6000 years and 6 days ago.

Christian interpretation is false. Would this be the first time Christianity got it wrong? Nope.

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

You've made another categorical error here. You have mixed the "age of the earth" with the time Christians claim the creation of the earth took place.

1. Christians claim that the 6 day creation took place 6000 years ago by literally reading the Genesis 1 account.

2. The doctrine EXPLAINING this act is called Creati ex nihilo. The doctrine is that nothing else IN THE UNIVERSE existed prior to the creation of the earth(say good by to your theory about other materials.)

3. Neither Mormons or scientists claim that the CREATION of the earth took 4.5 billion years.

4. Both Mormonism and Science affirm that the earth coalesced at least 4.5 billion years ago. Neither Science or Mormonism claims that it took 4.5 billion years to "create" the earth. Mormonism affirms that the Creation account in Genesis 1 is figurative and not literal. There was a creation period and a resting period, not necessarily of the the same lengths of time.

5. Christianity claims that it is God's word that it was 6000 years and 6 days ago that the earth coalesced.

6. Based on scientific discovery, the literal interpretation of Genesis 1 by traditional Christianity is false.

7. Because the Christian literal interpretation of Genesis 1 is false, Creatio ex nihilo is false.

You see, your error is that you're still thinking in 6 periods of equal length measured in 24 hour smaller units of measurement - an error indeed!

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

You wrote:
"Contrary. It is about our beginning. "

So something other than God existed as matter and energy before our earth was made?

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

You wrote:
"Don't include me in your psychosis. Who knows if there wasn't another world before ours. Some theologians believe there was. "

So, Genesis is not about the beginning after all?

Pastor Tackles Truth, New Age Spirituality, Mormonism

james »

Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prop:

You wrote:
"As I said, and you conveniently ignored, if the days spoken of in Genesis were actually millions of years, the Christianity and Mormonism are lies. Because God is still resting."

This is incoherent.

1. Genesis is not a full account of God's creation. For example - we can see for ourselves that the "heavens" are very complex - yet no account of it.

2. Over the centuries, the Christian Church forced its adherents to interpret the Genesis account literally.

3. Over the centuries, other forced interpretations have back fired including the Church's failed attempt to suppress the truth that the Earth and the Sun are not at the center of the universe or creation.

4. The age of the earth does not prove Mormonism is a lie, it proves Orthodox Christian interpretation is false.

5. The true age of the earth and the laws of science support Mormonism as a true, revealed theology of the way God actually created the universe.

Your comment about "God is still resting" is incoherent and detached from these facts above.