Wow, Chris333, good to see you back and full of zest! I really enjoyed reading Parts 1-3! Well worth the wait!

Oops! I meant "one stance" for the religion and science scholars!

Hume, You might be interested [or might not be!] in reading some works by Ian Barbour and Michael Ruse. Many of these scholars and believers do not just take on stance in the religion/science conflict! And I only compare God to these fictional characters because thats how you see Him as. I knew that in doing so there was a risk for your argument back, but as Chris333 argues, I have my p...more

Hume,

You might be interested [or might not be!] in reading some works by Ian Barbour and Michael Ruse. Many of these scholars and believers do not just take on stance in the religion/science conflict!

And I only compare God to these fictional characters because thats how you see Him as. I knew that in doing so there was a risk for your argument back, but as Chris333 argues, I have my proof and the disbelief of others does not change that.

I cannot begin to get into apologetics here because I am so incredibly lacking in that area [maybe in a few years?] but I find it difficult for one to deny Jesus Christ even existed!

The fact that time alone is broken down into B.C. and A.D. revolving around Jesus Christ I think, is pretty important! Time is such a powerful thing and what our lives literally revolve around. But we also revolve around the sun too. The Son? [I love using that pun!] But as for Jesus, He is viewed as a historical figure. Historians and archaeologists do not consider His existence to be a myth! Why, I was just watching studies on Him on the History channel the other day and not once did they even show any sign of seeing Him as anything more then an actual historical concrete man. So I couldn't really understand so maybe you aren't denying His existence. But you did say you find Jesus as described in the Bible a myth. So then what Jesus do you believe? Do you doubt His death as well? Because that is just as historical. His birth as conceived by the Holy Ghost and the resurrection usually is the issue more people find to be mythical and if you are waiting for concrete evidence of that as you would wait for Nicole Kidman to walk out, then I'm sorry you probably will never get it.

If I am trying to tell you something and show you something from across the room, you probably won't hear me. So to hear me and to know what I am saying, to see what I have, would require getting close to me. That is just physical nature, no? Then if you are waiting to see what proof God has for you and what He has to tell you requires you to get close to Him. Because He's trying, this whole article and slew of comments makes that evident. The fact that you even first made a comment shows something to me to be honest. And no matter how many times you deny Him, argue against Him, try to convince others He does not exist, He will continue to try and get close to you and if you want to see, you must get closer to Him as well. There are messengers in between Him and you trying to relay anything they can, but it also requires you to open an ear, open your heart, open your eyes and truly see.less

Chris333 Oops. I definitely agree that God always understands us. I just meant that relationships are difficult because sometimes one cannot understand the other as I cannot always understand God's purpose or meaning. But I agree, that He always does understand is there for us. I should have worded that better! Thanks for the encouragement! As for Hume, after taking a course on relig...more

Chris333

Oops. I definitely agree that God always understands us. I just meant that relationships are difficult because sometimes one cannot understand the other as I cannot always understand God's purpose or meaning. But I agree, that He always does understand is there for us. I should have worded that better! Thanks for the encouragement! As for Hume, after taking a course on religion and science in my undergrad as well as a religion and philosophy course, I came to try and open my mind to unbelievers belief. Because not believing requires faith against God [which I even read in an awesome article right here on cp!] and before I decided to enter seminary to teach His word and His people, I knew I must understand them [people and unbelievers]. They do have the logic and arguments that make so many chain to those false beliefs and I believe that this world has created this false belief that is wrapped up in so much logic that for many, it is difficult to understand otherwise. And trust me, I get frustrated! Hearing people deny Jesus Christ hurts so very much, so so very much. But Jesus died just as much for them and I am just trying to understand and in doing so, realize how difficult it is for them to see the truth and that hurts so very much as well. That Jesus Christ endured such suffering for people only to deny He even existed... and for those who deny to not be able to witness His glory, His beauty, His name [which I think we can both agree is an amazing and beautiful thing]. But keep up the good work, Chris333! I really like your arguments [especially these analogies!].less

Hume, Your comments are arguments are very strong and I can clearly understand why you and many think this way. It just makes sense! It's so logical, and God... is not. Believers acknowledge this. And it is so hard for us to make our arguments without the concrete evidence and reasoning before us as many reductionists and other non-believers may have. Yet I would like to go back to th...more

Hume,

Your comments are arguments are very strong and I can clearly understand why you and many think this way. It just makes sense! It's so logical, and God... is not. Believers acknowledge this. And it is so hard for us to make our arguments without the concrete evidence and reasoning before us as many reductionists and other non-believers may have. Yet I would like to go back to the original comments where you referred to Jesus as a myth. I am curious, what do you find mythical? Is it His existence, His role as the Son of God, His death? That is something I would like to know.

Your Nicole Kidman analogy is a great one. Yet what happens if and when Nicole Kidman really does show up out of nowhere? And hangs on to Chris333's side? See Chris333 [or whoever is stating Kidman is their wife] isn't so clueless to realize that they may appear foolish or strange for stating something that others cannot see. But they state it because they KNOW for themselves it is true, so risking that foolish appearance is of no element in comparison. I like this argument, so I want to continue. So many times [especially in children's movies] there is something like this. A child sees something, knows something, yet no one, not even family, will believe them. And in the end this thing [whether it be an alien, a seamonster, a mermaid, WHATEVER] appears and many are in shock and awe [yes I know we're talking about children's movies here, where am I possibly going with this... a child's movie is not the best argument to make]. BUT in the end there are always some who just happen to miss seeing the phenomenon. They rush into the scene when it is too late and they miss seeing it "with their own eyes" and wonder what all the fuss is about. They did not see it with their own eyes, does that mean it never happened? I have never seen Australia with my own eyes. Does that mean it is not real?

And I acknowledge that many serve this world and people without God as the foundation for it. But for me, that is my reason and motivation. God is not a puppet-master/controller over this world but He is so much more. He is grace and love and desires a personal relationship with each of us. And any relationship is difficult; it requires trust, communication, and understanding. Times when one cannot understand the other and so forth. But I believe God to be so personal and so real in my life and my adoration for Him because of that relationship I have with Him is what drives me!

And you ask what if God isn't the real God and yet there is another deity getting angry with me. Well, that argument would require some supernatural being to be in existence. So I ask, do you deny just God the Trinity or all gods? Which goes back to my first question of what part of Jesus do you find to be a myth?

I'll end with that for now!less

But you see, Hume, so many random strangers, including I myself, are taking a stand in arguing for God. Not because we need to as if our arguments can or will change anything, but because Jesus Christ is so personal to us, someone that is such a huge part of our lives, it is as if hearing an insult or seeing a slap to our best friend, savior, redeemer, and father [as the original Jesus looked lik...more

But you see, Hume, so many random strangers, including I myself, are taking a stand in arguing for God. Not because we need to as if our arguments can or will change anything, but because Jesus Christ is so personal to us, someone that is such a huge part of our lives, it is as if hearing an insult or seeing a slap to our best friend, savior, redeemer, and father [as the original Jesus looked like].

We also leave our comments in hopes, dire hopes, that you might see and open your eyes to the grace that Jesus Christ brought to this world. Because in the end, if we are wrong, what is there to lose? So we spent our lives trusting and having faith which brought so much joy and hope in our lives. It did not ultimately hurt us. You may think we just appeared foolish, but it brought fellowship among strangers, taught us to forgive and love, and guides us in our struggles. But say you are wrong, then I am truly sorry. And I do not intend for that to sound condescending [I realize making apologies to strangers on the internet tends to sound that way] but I really am. Faith is illogical, I know that, but Jesus says with faith the size of a mustard seed mountains can be moved. George Washington, upon finding our country, started off with a prayer. With his faith, he changed the entire world!

And just to respond to your comment on my activities... it does not make sense that I gain anything out of serving. I serve teenagers who honestly, used to scare me. I did not think I would be able to devote a portion of my life to them but somehow a burden and compassion has been placed in my heart for them. So no, it is not the activities, but it is God bringing this indescribable joy. Yes studying His word and serving these youth have become something awesome and amazing for me, but it was God who showed me this way and since I have started, I have only felt more alive, more with purpose, since.

A few hours early, but happy Easter everyone! A time to rejoice!

I do appreciate that you take the time to respond to each and everyone's comments. You are very fair!less

But we do see evidence. The whole world is testifying God's glory yet those who have faith can see it. Those who demand evidence as a basis for their faith lack understanding of what faith is thus are blinded to see the truth.. and that truth is alive. You say "All the "faith" in the world can't make a thing true by itself" but we're not saying our faith will ...more

But we do see evidence. The whole world is testifying God's glory yet those who have faith can see it. Those who demand evidence as a basis for their faith lack understanding of what faith is thus are blinded to see the truth.. and that truth is alive. You say "All the "faith" in the world can't make a thing true by itself" but we're not saying our faith will make Jesus Christ true. He is true, and our faith is just a piece in His grand story. Even in the end if the world were to give me concrete absolute proof there was no existence of God and my Saviour, Christ, well, then I wonder how else I have been able to receive such joy and fulfillment out of devoting my life to serving one that does not exist. Psychological, conditioning, one can use those arguments. But at the end of the day, it is by studying His word and His people that I know that there is an overflow of love and grace that cannot be understood by those who have not received, yet for those who have, it is so true and so tangible we can almost touch it.

Happy Good Friday! Praise the Lord!less

Graceman = himself, duh. Hence "man".

I don't see how graceman is being self righteous at all considering they are defending Rick Warren and not themselves [himself? herself?]. Maybe our leaders today aren't always on the right track, but they are still devoting their lives to God and His people. It's true, has anyone actually watched Rick Warren, spied on him, and seen what he does with his money? I think it's...more

I don't see how graceman is being self righteous at all considering they are defending Rick Warren and not themselves [himself? herself?]. Maybe our leaders today aren't always on the right track, but they are still devoting their lives to God and His people. It's true, has anyone actually watched Rick Warren, spied on him, and seen what he does with his money? I think it's rather dangerous to assume that he is living for his own profit. And if he is, then how does slandering him change ANYTHING? So mikehow, if you are right about Warren then I think it's great that we are aware and show our discontentment to those who would use the Bible and His word to better serve ourselves. We need to know that is true first and then find ways of, as you rightly said, giving the free gospel. Mocking him on cp will not change that even if it is true.

I think it's good to be critical of leaders... but only if it's constructive. To learn from what we may see as their mistakes to improve what we teach and know. These questions Rick Warren poses I think are positive questions and even if we disagree over who he is, he is still offering some advice and guidance for those who seek it. I know I am always seeking advice such as these and at the end of the day, Rick Warren good or bad, he is still offering some great teachings that so many are benefiting from.less