The 'Grassley 6': Where Are They Now?

ladyjubilee »

Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:30 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

Why should Grassley encourage Charismatic organizations to join an Evangelical oversight organization?

How can a member of the government tell or suggest to a certain theological group (notice that only charismatic ministries are being targeted?) be evaluated for a theological believe? If I, as a congregant, believe I am supposed to give in order to succeed, and I am ok with my religious leader using some of those funds for a private plane or fancy furniture for the office, then how can Grassley question? The Vatican is certainly posh, as are Anglican cathedrals, and ashrams and mosques etc. They aren't questioned. But a group that believes in using modern cultural norms for outreach is. That is the very meaning of the government trying to establish religion. They (meaning Grassley) determines what is acceptable to believe and what is not.

Frankly, this is still an outrage.

Conservatives Organize Separate Meeting on Future of Anglicans

ladyjubilee »

Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:01 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

The very nature of sin involves consent, whether it is in the bedroom, home, work or where ever. Sin involves the consent to choose our own will over the will of God---involves not only what God says not to do, and failing to do what God says to do.

None of the groups who refuse to condone sin are threatening war. Rather, they are holding firm to the view that churches should call people to do what God says to do and not do what God says not to do---and that when someone does something God says "don't do" they should be called to repent and when they don't do something God says "do" they should be called to repent. While this may seem radical, Citizen, it is following in the tradition of the church's founder. BTW, His name was Jesus.

More Questions Raised in Probe of Preachers

ladyjubilee »

Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:31 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

"'My business is the enforcement of the tax laws and the integrity of the tax code and making sure that trustees of charitable giving are true trustees,' Grassley said, according to NPR."

Apparently Senator Grassley failed his elementary school civics lesson. He is a senator. The Senate is part of the Legislative branch of the government. The IRS has delegated authority through the Executive branch to enforce tax law. If Grassley truly wanted to have the tax law enforced, and not just persecute people for their beliefs, he'd file a complaint with the IRS and let them investigate.

Huckabee Undeterred by Senate Probe of Copeland

ladyjubilee »

Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:45 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

My response disappeared so here it is again.

If they "misappropriated" funds, then it is the responsibility of the IRS the arm of the EXECUTIVE branch of the government to investigate. And, based on all available information, the IRS has determined that each of these groups HAS complied tax exempt status regulations. These hearings are from the LEGISLATIVE branch of the governement, which is not charged with enforcing the law. In fact, the reason for that is that the IRS looks at ALL tax exempt orgranizations not just a few based on their religious viewpoint.

Again, look at it this way. Your post shows a rather loose interpretion of Scripture. In one post you make an allegation (bear false witness) that has not even been suggested. You indicate this is "stealing"--something not even being charged. Then you somehow are able to determine that this is a result of "greed" and not, say, legitimately held belief or even error. Then, having made this determination, instead of approaching these brothers and sisters in LOVE, as instructed by Paul, you post about them in a public forum. All of which is fine, but which is behavior that some, like me, would suspect is a result of faulty theological understanding. Now, based on this, I should email Senator Grassley and ask him to investigate you and your church and your religious community--after all, quite obviously, you are being duped and your leaders are stealing from you. Obviously, since I don't like YOUR theological view point, and I think you have fundamentally failed to live up to my spiritual ideals, then you or your leaders are "stealing" and "misappropriating funds". Whether you actually go out (like these ministries) and feed the poor, clothed the naked, give medical care to the sick is ilrelevant.

And that this a view point persecution is shown by the fact only "prosperity" ministers are targeted....and not ashram leaders who live off their followers, or the Catholic church (which uses funds donated to feed the poor to pay off sex abuse victims). "Misappropriation" allegations that target a specifc view point group are wrong.

Huckabee Undeterred by Senate Probe of Copeland

ladyjubilee »

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:22 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

I find it frustrating that when we, people of faith, face persecution, we pick at each other instead of confronting attacks on our liberty.

Name it and claim it may be a wrong interpretation of Scripture. The prosperity message may well be a heretical interpretation.....but the US Government, a senator on a McCarthy witch is not the one to make that determination. The US Governement does not need lists of donors---lists of people that determine the faith of those people.

This is a step on a slippery slop. What is next? Does the US Government get lists of the contributing members of your church? Does it get to decide which of your church's sincerely held beliefs is right or wrong? Is it misleading to tell someone that Jesus is the Savior? Lots Athiests would say so.....and if a US Senator gets to make those determinations, what happens when the next US Senator who calls for hearings is an Athiest with an axe to grind?

Not one of these ministries steals bank account numbers and takes money without permission. People make the faith decision to send them money----just as people make decisions to eat chocolate and skip exercise. Just because we, so Senator Grassley disagree with those decisions does not make this a legislative issue. Its not our place to make faith decisions for people....if we feel our view is the correct view, then we should make the effort to present our view, not silence the views of others. Furthermore, we need to be aware that this is just another step back in our freedoms and liberty in the US.

'Prosperity' Televangelists Probed for Possible Financial Misconduct

ladyjubilee »

Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:33 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

I find it frightening the the Senate targets any particular religious belief....which is what they are doing in investigating "prosperity gospel" leaders. In essence the Senate is saying that the US Government gets to decide which religious belief is valid. As long as the belief is that feeding the poor is ok, the US Government will approve. But when it comes to Paul's teaching that a worker is due payment for his/her work....well, the US Government just may not like that one. What happens when the Senate decides that those who believe teaching from tradition is "misleading" and using those poor donor's money is bad...while those who teach that groups who stress individual decision are more honest and use the money wisely.

The bottomline is, Mr Grassely has pu himself in charge of determining what is a valid faith position. He has stuck the US Government right in the middle of establishing religion....which the tax exempt status for religious groups was supposed to prevent. Donors may well be looking to feed the poor---they may well be looking for value for money...or they may believe that any money given as "unto the Lord" is money well given...Well given because it fits with their RELIGIOUS view point. And what is more, donors may well believe, as a matter of faith, that they should elevate their religious leader in wealth and status.

Its dangerous for the US Government to get involve in church matters. Each incursion is a chip at our freedom of religion.

Southern Baptists Back Conservative Leader Amid Verbal Attacks

ladyjubilee »

Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:20 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

I think in this case, folks should have remember that Jesus said you reap what you sow. When people were having their names and credentials smeared, and being pushed from their jobs and ministries, no one made grand gestures to stop personal attacks. But now, when in the time of reaping suddenly the seeds that were scattered are so terrible.

And its interesting that when certain groups were slinging, it was for the Gospel....and now, suddenly the exact same behavior with a different target is against the Gospel. (Not, of course, that either is acceptable.)