Oh, my, lord....I don't know if this snarky back-and-forth between Believer and Prophet and RLBaty started on this thread or a different one but I am noticing a pattern here. Every one or two months this argument starts usually with Believer and a poster never seen before. Said poster goes nutzoid and spews post after post after post obsessing on being 'falsely accused' and 'demanding an apology/r...more

Oh, my, lord....I don't know if this snarky back-and-forth between Believer and Prophet and RLBaty started on this thread or a different one but I am noticing a pattern here. Every one or two months this argument starts usually with Believer and a poster never seen before. Said poster goes nutzoid and spews post after post after post obsessing on being 'falsely accused' and 'demanding an apology/repentance'.

I usually stay out of it but this is getting ridiculous. As a bystander even I can see the pattern of the exact same behavior - each new post with some special 'quirk' to their writing to make it appear unique (like >) and then goes nuts about calling Believer a liar when he points it out.

Frankly, if it really was different people each time then the response - not just the prose and weird symbols/punctuation - would be decidedly different.

IMHO most people would ignore such accusations since it should not bother them in the least if it was not true. Maybe get irritated here and there.

But RLBaty is on a friggin warpath, spamming post after post screaming 'liars!' JUST LIKE the last guy, and the guy before that, and the one before that.........

Whoever you are, you are starting to drive ME nuts!less

The Pro-Life standpoint as envisioned by Texas: Outlaw abortion with no exceptions and allow 5-year-olds to be given the death penalty. You know what this is? This has deep roots in a patriarchal mind-set that cannot stand the fact that men have no say in abortion and so women must be legally bound to the decision of a man in regards to her body. Once the child is born and men have as much...more

The Pro-Life standpoint as envisioned by Texas:

Outlaw abortion with no exceptions and allow 5-year-olds to be given the death penalty.

You know what this is? This has deep roots in a patriarchal mind-set that cannot stand the fact that men have no say in abortion and so women must be legally bound to the decision of a man in regards to her body. Once the child is born and men have as much right (if not more in a state like Texas) as women to determine the fate of that child, then they are perfectly happy to kill a baby because someone decided that baby was irreversibly evil at 5 years old.

I would place bets that at least one person involved in prosecuting this case, if not more than one, has some crazy notion that they are terminating the anti-Christ.less

@Prophet: Because the Religious Right has been bemoaning the evils of television since the technology was developed. Fun Fact: In the series pilot to Leave it to Beaver, there was a scene which showed something 'never shown on film/TV' before that caused such a stir in the conservative community that the pilot was almost rejected. What was it? A toilet. No joke. It was just a toilet. A...more

@Prophet: Because the Religious Right has been bemoaning the evils of television since the technology was developed.

Fun Fact: In the series pilot to Leave it to Beaver, there was a scene which showed something 'never shown on film/TV' before that caused such a stir in the conservative community that the pilot was almost rejected.

What was it?

A toilet. No joke. It was just a toilet. A white-porcelin throne shown in a scene where the Beav is brushing his teeth. Can you imagine the unseemly and disgusting nerve they must have had to bravely push THAT boundary?

Prophet - nuff said.less

So what are you all going to do once the Federal Supreme court rules that DOMA is unconstitutional and gay marriage becomes the law of the land? I have heard talk that it 'would be a line too far' and that people would start screaming about seceding from the union and/or exercising one's '2nd amendment' rights. I am being serious here. For all of you who are against gay marriage - do you se...more

So what are you all going to do once the Federal Supreme court rules that DOMA is unconstitutional and gay marriage becomes the law of the land?

I have heard talk that it 'would be a line too far' and that people would start screaming about seceding from the union and/or exercising one's '2nd amendment' rights.

I am being serious here. For all of you who are against gay marriage - do you see such a future actually happening or do you think its mostly verbal over-reaction to something that has not happened yet?less

Thank you Cindy. More and more voices of reason come forward every day.

The churches/religious leaders listed in the article above are all considered secular blasphemers by the majority of the posters and authors on CP. These same churches/leaders calling for stronger social programs are also advocating for female equality within the church (you know, that whole argument about female pastors being un-Biblical) and gay rights. So we have on one side of the Chr...more

The churches/religious leaders listed in the article above are all considered secular blasphemers by the majority of the posters and authors on CP.

These same churches/leaders calling for stronger social programs are also advocating for female equality within the church (you know, that whole argument about female pastors being un-Biblical) and gay rights.

So we have on one side of the Christian table a group of progressive/liberal churches advocating for strong social programs to uplift this nations poor and afflicted as well as equal rights for women and gays.

On the other side of the Christian table sits the conservative/fundamentalists who advocate the glory of capitalism, the gutting or elimination of our social programs for the poor and needy, who want to do away with the D.O.E, the E.P.A., welfare, food-stamps and low-income housing. They also want to privatize Social Security so that Wall Street can play Monopoly with our retirement funds. They advocate against universal health care because they don't want their money paying for the cancer treatment of the kid down the street.

And before someone pops off with a 'give unto Caesar' quote as some lame attempt to prove that God doesn't want us to have strong social programs, keep in mind that Rome was a pagan government not claiming to be Christian.

Being a Christian means you are your brothers keeper and have been commanded to feed the hungry, care for the sick and clothe the naked.

It is unbelievable for the religious right to scream about being a Christian nation while they simultaneously destroy all of America's Christian traits.less

I actually was not trying to be funny. I was trying to make a point. This supposedly 'Christian nation' serves mammon and not God. We are either a Christian nation or we are a secular nation with a large Christian populace. As a secular nation driven on the principles of capitalism - rallying against strong social programs for the poor and needy because it is against capitalistic American values i...more

I actually was not trying to be funny. I was trying to make a point. This supposedly 'Christian nation' serves mammon and not God. We are either a Christian nation or we are a secular nation with a large Christian populace. As a secular nation driven on the principles of capitalism - rallying against strong social programs for the poor and needy because it is against capitalistic American values is one thing.

But claiming this country is Christian-based while the conservative right (who is always screaming about this being a Christian nation) seeks to gut all of our social programs is a flat-out lie. You cannot serve God and mammon.

If America wants to show the world we are a Christian nation with Christ-like behaviors than strong social programs for the poor, the elderly, the widowed, the hungry, the naked and the sick are a must.

If the Christian masses don't want their 'tax dollars' supporting strong social programs than they need to quite screaming about this being a Christian nation.

This country serves money - period.

Consider this: we had the audacity to put God's name on our currency. American dollars fund all kinds of heinous things from child-trafficking to drug cartels to pornography. God's name dangles in $1's, $5's, $10's & $20's from a strippers thong in every strip club in America almost every night.

By putting God's name on our money we made the official statement of who and what America's god really is.less

So here we have a bunch of liberal churches asking the President to promote socialist programs such as foodstamps, low-income housing assistance, welfare, WIC, etc. This is outrageous! This is supposed to be a Christian nation! We don't want our government looking out for the poor, the homeless and the hungry. Yes, that's the LAST thing a truly Christian nation would encourage! A Christian ...more

So here we have a bunch of liberal churches asking the President to promote socialist programs such as foodstamps, low-income housing assistance, welfare, WIC, etc.

This is outrageous! This is supposed to be a Christian nation! We don't want our government looking out for the poor, the homeless and the hungry. Yes, that's the LAST thing a truly Christian nation would encourage!

A Christian nation is one where we support corporation rights over individual rights, where we believe more in capitalism than social programs and where we expect poor people to either figure it out on their own with no help or hope that they have one of these liberal churches nearby that might feed and clothe them.

As an American Christian, I sure don't want MY tax dollars feeding hungry families or helping poor parents put a roof over their kids' head! Socialist programs like foodstamps and Social Security is un-American and un-Christian.

To heck with the starving children in the shelters across America! All that money they keep taking away from me in taxes is costing me my HD TV!!

/facepalmless

I find it strange that any of our American courts would even consider Sharia law when judging a case. According to this article a couple of courts have done so. That is blatant anti-American, anti-Constitution behavior. At first I didn't think such laws were necessary, to specifically ban considering Sharia in our court system. But if some judges are allowing themselves to be influenced by it t...more

I find it strange that any of our American courts would even consider Sharia law when judging a case. According to this article a couple of courts have done so. That is blatant anti-American, anti-Constitution behavior.

At first I didn't think such laws were necessary, to specifically ban considering Sharia in our court system. But if some judges are allowing themselves to be influenced by it then every state in the union, perhaps even at the federal level, needs to make specific laws against it.

Sharia law is about as anti-American as you can get.less

Thank you for your post, Jessilyn. I too find it a little ironic that Christians tend to want to call Halloween a Satanic festival when this festival originated before Christ and Satan is a manifestation of the Christian religion. An actual 'Satanist' does not even consider Halloween some kind of special day - in reality the only 'holiday' recognized officially by the Satanic church is ones own bi...more

Thank you for your post, Jessilyn. I too find it a little ironic that Christians tend to want to call Halloween a Satanic festival when this festival originated before Christ and Satan is a manifestation of the Christian religion. An actual 'Satanist' does not even consider Halloween some kind of special day - in reality the only 'holiday' recognized officially by the Satanic church is ones own birthday. (Satanism has got to be the craziest 'religion' I have ever seen - because it is completely based on a Biblical character that is not only the manifestation of everything evil and cruel in the world but also the ultimate loser in the Christian religion. I really just don't understand it.)

Honestly, I have met a lot more 'Christ-like' Wiccan's then I have 'Christ-like' Christians.less

First of all, Sunday is NOT the Biblical Sabbath. Saturday is. Just ask a Jew, they have been keeping the Sabbath since way before Christ. Secondly, Christmas is rooted in the pagan holiday of winter solstice. Nearly all Biblical scholars agree that Christ was born around the same time he died - in April/May. The Catholic church, in its attempt to stamp out paganism and create 'Christian altern...more

First of all, Sunday is NOT the Biblical Sabbath. Saturday is. Just ask a Jew, they have been keeping the Sabbath since way before Christ.

Secondly, Christmas is rooted in the pagan holiday of winter solstice. Nearly all Biblical scholars agree that Christ was born around the same time he died - in April/May. The Catholic church, in its attempt to stamp out paganism and create 'Christian alternatives' to the pagan holidays, decided to celebrate the birth of Christ in December to lure the pagans away from winter solstice celebrations. Everything from the giving of gifts to the Christmas tree itself is stolen from the pagan festival.

It is also not a coincidence that Easter falls at the same time as the spring solstice. The egg hunts and even the 'Easter bunny' are rooted in the original pagan festival.

Yet, as any Christian would tell you, it is the heart and intent behind these celebrations that make them what they are, regardless of how they started. Halloween is the same way. It is a time to dress up in fun costumes and get loads of candy/treats, have neighborhood parties and come together as friends/family/neighbors. In modern America it is a celebration of community. A celebration of neighborly trust (seeing as how we go door to door seeking treats from strangers). Block parties and fun times.

Don't alienate your kids by denying them the ability to participate. Trust me, it only creates doubt and division within the child about Christianity and their neighbors. They will either hate you or hate them - neither being a good outcome.less

The US military recognizes Wicca as an official religion, as well as, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, etc. We have agnostic and atheist service members. So here is my question in regards to the whole 'chaplain' argument, If they already have to be sensitive to the religious beliefs of others and if they are already blending just fine with Wiccans, Atheists, Muslims and Mormons then how is it sudden...more

The US military recognizes Wicca as an official religion, as well as, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, etc. We have agnostic and atheist service members.

So here is my question in regards to the whole 'chaplain' argument, If they already have to be sensitive to the religious beliefs of others and if they are already blending just fine with Wiccans, Atheists, Muslims and Mormons then how is it suddenly going to 'silence them' if gays join openly? Christian teaching is very much against all these other realities in the armed forces and there does not seem to be a problem.

So what is the problem? I mean can a Christian Chaplain make the statement that Wiccans are pagans destined for hell? Can they make a statement that Muhammad is a false prophet? Can they remain true to their Christian teaching right now in the face of what is already there?

If so then what makes you all think that would change if gays get to join?

If not then we already have a military culture where the Christian worldview is forced to remain 'moderate' and 'sensitive' to other belief systems and gays are not going to make that any worse.less

Simply inhaling smoke of some kind is NOT what gives you lung cancer. Lung cancer is caused by all the carcinogenic crud in cigarettes. Studies have been done to determine a link between pot smoking and ling cancer. There isn't one. Pot smoking, though can harm lungs over time just as inhaling smoke regularly causes harm to the lungs (think forest fire fighters), it does NOT cause lung cancer....more

Simply inhaling smoke of some kind is NOT what gives you lung cancer. Lung cancer is caused by all the carcinogenic crud in cigarettes. Studies have been done to determine a link between pot smoking and ling cancer.

There isn't one. Pot smoking, though can harm lungs over time just as inhaling smoke regularly causes harm to the lungs (think forest fire fighters), it does NOT cause lung cancer. You can't overdose on it. Nothing about pot use whatsoever is harmful to your life either short term or long term.

Long term use of cigarettes causes Lung Cancer.
Long term use of alcohol causes liver failure.
Long term us of sugar causes diabetes and obesity.
Long time use of Tylenol causes liver failure.
Long time use of soda/coffee causes insomnia, ulcers the 'shakes' and a caffeine addiction.

Long time use of marijuana causes...um...well you might forget your mother's birthday. Depending on how stoned you are, you might forget your own. lol!less

betapaul: I will answer your question about the pro-gay theological explanation of the passage in Roman's where Paul speaks of 'men burning in their lust for one another' and 'even woman forsaking what is natural and embracing that which is against nature'. (paraphrasing here) This passage begins by describing people worshipping 'the creature and not the creator' and then goes on to describe wh...more

betapaul: I will answer your question about the pro-gay theological explanation of the passage in Roman's where Paul speaks of 'men burning in their lust for one another' and 'even woman forsaking what is natural and embracing that which is against nature'. (paraphrasing here)

This passage begins by describing people worshipping 'the creature and not the creator' and then goes on to describe what appears to be a pagan s*x ritual. Seems Paul stumbled upon one of those pagan orgy ceremonies where they break off in gender segregated male/female groups and have a gay-orgy as part of a pagan ritual.

(This is how it's done from what I understand - I have only read about these rituals but have never witnessed one [thank God!] and they are still practiced today.)

In Pauls time there was no concept of a 'gay person'. No concept of two people of the same gender 'falling in love'. In those days gay behavior was something done outside of marriage for purely lustful reasons, or was done as a form of prostitution for monetary gain, or was done as part of a pagan ritual, or was done as a way for one man to dominate/humiliate another man. (A common practice in those days was to take the leader of a defeated enemy and sodomize him in front of his people and/or military. This practice was also used as a way to dominate and subjugate male slaves.)

So seeing this pagan ritual in all its 'naked glory' rightfully disgusted him and he condemned the participants for doing what was 'unnatural'.

Keep in mind that the original Greek word for 'natural' and 'unnatural' (against nature) does not mean literally NATURE as in the study of natural and unnatural in a 'laws of nature' sort of way.

The word literally translates as a reference to 'common practice' or 'societal norms'., Hence the reason Paul used the word in Corinthians to say "Does nature not teach you that a man's hair is to be short and a woman's hair is to be long?".

Obviously letting your hair grow 'naturally' under the modern definition of the word would mean a man's hair would grow long. Paul was speaking about Roman custom (which was short hair for men and long for women) and early Christian teaching spoke a lot about not being contentious and not drawing attention to oneself out of vain-glory.

As for the hair-length chapter in Corinthians, after Paul goes back and forth about Roman hair customs, he ends the with the statement 'and if there be any contention, we have NO SUCH CUSTOM and neither do the churches of God".less

Muggleborn and gayisnotasin: Your heartfelt and respectful discussion on this topic is very much appreciated. You guys are setting a wonderful example to the posters here; demonstrating that we can have these discussions, we can respectively disagree, we can possibly even reach some sort of compromise (in social terms) if every one involved remained peaceful and holds to a heart of reconciliation....more

Muggleborn and gayisnotasin: Your heartfelt and respectful discussion on this topic is very much appreciated. You guys are setting a wonderful example to the posters here; demonstrating that we can have these discussions, we can respectively disagree, we can possibly even reach some sort of compromise (in social terms) if every one involved remained peaceful and holds to a heart of reconciliation.

We do not need to demonize and/or degrade each other. Thank you both!less

I totally disagree that 'spiritual darkness' envelops the earth 'more and more every day'. In truth it is the opposite that is true. For the first time in human history we are addressing issues like poverty, women's rights, child exploitation, prostitution and genocide on a global scale. The human race - as a whole - is struggling against poverty, oppression and slavery. Countless countrie...more

I totally disagree that 'spiritual darkness' envelops the earth 'more and more every day'. In truth it is the opposite that is true.

For the first time in human history we are addressing issues like poverty, women's rights, child exploitation, prostitution and genocide on a global scale. The human race - as a whole - is struggling against poverty, oppression and slavery.

Countless countries the world over have given women and children rights and protections that were unheard of 200 years ago. When a country has a natural disaster crisis (such as flooding in Pakistan, earthquake in Haiti or a tsunami that wipes out entire cities and villages) other countries send money, food, medical supplies and volunteers to assist the victims - also unheard of just 100 years ago.

It used to be that nearly every nation on earth was some kind of theocracy and the religions/states were in constant war with one another. Now the only ones promoting 'jihad' are the muslims.

We live in a world where the plight of a group of Chilean miners trapped beneath the earth grabs national headlines and nearly the whole world prayed for them and rejoiced when they were rescued. Several countries sent professionals, money and equipment to help in the rescue.

Of course this world is still very much permeated with evil, for man is sinful by nature, but a serious comparison of our world-wide ethics to any period of time in our history clearly shows that we have evolved for the better as human beings.less

smba - That has got to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard anyone say. You do realize that the African Community, who opposes gay marriage and abortion in MUCH WIDER margins than white Christians, voted 80% for this guy? So the arm of Christianity that opposes gays MORE than the white-evangelicals are 'not Christian' because they voted for Obama? You just called 80% of the hig...more

smba - That has got to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard anyone say. You do realize that the African Community, who opposes gay marriage and abortion in MUCH WIDER margins than white Christians, voted 80% for this guy? So the arm of Christianity that opposes gays MORE than the white-evangelicals are 'not Christian' because they voted for Obama?

You just called 80% of the highly Conservative Christian African community 'not true Christians'.less

agentoragne20 & believer: Planned Parenthood (the local clinic I remember was called something else but same idea) has been giving out birth control to teenage girls 16 and over in Oregon since at least 1990 (without parental permission). Also condoms, spermicide, pregnancy tests, pelvic exams, etc. It wasn't through the school. It was an office downtown. Such things are regulated by state ...more

agentoragne20 & believer: Planned Parenthood (the local clinic I remember was called something else but same idea) has been giving out birth control to teenage girls 16 and over in Oregon since at least 1990 (without parental permission). Also condoms, spermicide, pregnancy tests, pelvic exams, etc.

It wasn't through the school. It was an office downtown.

Such things are regulated by state laws. I wouldn't be surprised if places like California and Massachusetts have been doing this for years as well.less

The absolute truth to the matter is that marijuana is safer to use than both alcohol and cigarettes. As President Woodrow Wilson carried out his prohibition campaign, he asked the Department of Health to compile a list of dangerous side effects and/or results of marijuana to use in favor of making it illegal. After thorough study the Department came back and testified before Congress that ther...more

The absolute truth to the matter is that marijuana is safer to use than both alcohol and cigarettes.

As President Woodrow Wilson carried out his prohibition campaign, he asked the Department of Health to compile a list of dangerous side effects and/or results of marijuana to use in favor of making it illegal. After thorough study the Department came back and testified before Congress that there were no ill-side-effects, that it was effective for stress relief and that it should NOT be made illegal.

Instead if taking their advice, Pres. Wilson got angry and created a bunch of blatantly false propaganda service messages and had it illegalized along with everything else, including alcohol. (Fun Fact: This is the reason Coke is called Coca Cola - because it used to have cocaine in it.)

People can make alcohol form home easier than they can grow marijuana and they prefer to buy it in stores. If it is made legal, pot will end up the same way.

As for it being a ‘gateway’ drug, consider this:

I take serious issue with the fact that it is thrown in with drugs like LSD, cocaine, meth, heroine, etc. in the ‘Just Say No’ war one drugs that we teach kids in school. Most of the time the first drug a kid will run into is pot. If they decide to try it their reaction is usually ‘hey, no big deal’ (because pot ISN’T a big deal) and then mistakenly think all the drugs are ‘hyped up’ to be ‘crazy dangerous’ when they are not.

Of course LSD, cocaine, meth, etc are VERY dangerous.less

I have never quite agreed with the lengths gone to in enforcing 'stay out of politics' laws just because churches are tax exempt. Now I agree with the idea that churches should not be allowed to spend any money for political purposes. They should not hold fundraiser rallies or send around the collection plate for a political cause. However I also believe that churches should be free to preach ...more

I have never quite agreed with the lengths gone to in enforcing 'stay out of politics' laws just because churches are tax exempt. Now I agree with the idea that churches should not be allowed to spend any money for political purposes. They should not hold fundraiser rallies or send around the collection plate for a political cause.

However I also believe that churches should be free to preach and discuss whatever they want. If they want to talk about abortion or gay marriage in politics then why stop them?

I think the line here is money, not message. There is a difference between passing around a collection plate and/or donating hundreds of thousands of church dollars (tax exempt for the church and for the giver on tax returns) and simply standing before the congregation and saying, "This church opposes SSM and we should all be fighting against it. Cast your votes and get involved with your time and money."less