Actually it makes perfect sense. Compare it to Christianity in America; Though the Bible is clearly against such things as divorce, abortion and lending-with-interest, a vast majority of Christians support no-fault divorce laws; abortion rights and we have 'Christian lending' groups that charge interest on church loans. The majority of Christians in America are 'luke-warm' after a fashion by ra...more

Actually it makes perfect sense. Compare it to Christianity in America; Though the Bible is clearly against such things as divorce, abortion and lending-with-interest, a vast majority of Christians support no-fault divorce laws; abortion rights and we have 'Christian lending' groups that charge interest on church loans.

The majority of Christians in America are 'luke-warm' after a fashion by rarely attending church and not giving God a whole lot of thought or time in their everyday lives.

So basically the statement that 'most Muslims are tolerant and peace-loving' means that most Muslims do not follow Islam 'by the book' and likely only live under Sharia because they have no choice.

Many if these people could be reached with a Christ-message. If they are truly a tolerant and peace-loving people in their majority than Christ's message is something they should all be given the chance to hear.less

“[M]y fear is that we will have another dark age, an age of liberalism within evangelism as people reject the Bible as impractical and not possible to be kept,” remarked Fernando. Actually the 'Dark Ages' are the term used for when the Roman Catholic Church was at the height of its power and ruled most of the known world with an iron fist. They use the term 'Dark Ages' because the RCC dicta...more

“[M]y fear is that we will have another dark age, an age of liberalism within evangelism as people reject the Bible as impractical and not possible to be kept,” remarked Fernando.

Actually the 'Dark Ages' are the term used for when the Roman Catholic Church was at the height of its power and ruled most of the known world with an iron fist. They use the term 'Dark Ages' because the RCC dictated a theocracy that viewed the pursuit of science and 'nature' as a pursuit of evil. The Church effectively silenced and suspended scientific thought and progress for hundreds of years. It was a 'Dark Age' for human evolution in science and society.

The Reformation ended the absolute rule of the RCC in such a way that allowed for a return to scientific inquiry and study. The movement ended the historic era we refer to as the 'Dark Ages'.

The Reformation is what gave birth to the 'age of liberalism within evangelism'. Liberalism within evangelism is what gave birth to America. It is what paved the way for women's suffrage and the abolition of slavery.

The Reformation was not at all about "people reject[ing] the Bible as impractical and not possible to be kept.” In actuality it was about the average Christian being given access to scripture and reading for themselves the fantastic errors and outright blasphemy practiced by the RCC at the time.

A Biblical/Christian history lesson would be prudent if one wishes to use historical references in their preaching.less

Prophet - "Rhi, what hate?" greyhawk: "..this group of deranged individuals who need serious mental health and spiritual counseling, and not being encouraged to embrace their perverted lifestyles and practices." = hate speech. greyhawk: " making laws that give preferential treatment and special status to this group" = ignorance Daniel Paul - The company you keep is not that of Christ. C...more

Prophet - "Rhi, what hate?"

greyhawk: "..this group of deranged individuals who need serious mental health and spiritual counseling, and not being encouraged to embrace their perverted lifestyles and practices." = hate speech.

greyhawk: " making laws that give preferential treatment and special status to this group" = ignorance

Daniel Paul - The company you keep is not that of Christ. Christ ate and drank with 'sinners' and refused to shun or condemn them; Christ promoted 'socialist values' such as being a truly Christ-like means giving all your excess to the poor: It means lending without interest; It means 'oppress not the stranger in your land'; it means loving your enemy.

The 'company' you 'keep' is that of the Pharisees and Sadducees who also insisted such ideas/practices were Ungodly and/or evil.less

gayisnotasin - "Name the constitutional principle that you think allows gays to be treated as lesser than their straight counterparts." The part in the constitution where it lists slaves as being 1/4 person, that only white property owners have the right to vote and other such 'original' ideas put forth by our 'founding fathers'. Keep in mind the mantra of the current conservative movement:...more

gayisnotasin - "Name the constitutional principle that you think allows gays to be treated as lesser than their straight counterparts."

The part in the constitution where it lists slaves as being 1/4 person, that only white property owners have the right to vote and other such 'original' ideas put forth by our 'founding fathers'.

Keep in mind the mantra of the current conservative movement: 'Take back OUR country' to the good-old-days when our constitution was 'first written' by slave owners and patriarchs because that is what the 'writers originally intended'.

In short: A movement to re-establish the idea that some people are better than others and have the right to oppress those they deem inferior through national/state laws that keep them separated and shunned by 'mainstream society'.less

I suspect all the heavily Catholic countries are noticing a decline in active beliers right now. In truth the world over is exasperated with religious extremism. The only reason "the idea of a “singular truth” and monotheism had become unpopular and were widely regarded as dangerous, arrogant and potentially violent" is because of the behavior of zealots. Christians have no one to blame bu...more

I suspect all the heavily Catholic countries are noticing a decline in active beliers right now. In truth the world over is exasperated with religious extremism. The only reason "the idea of a “singular truth” and monotheism had become unpopular and were widely regarded as dangerous, arrogant and potentially violent" is because of the behavior of zealots.

Christians have no one to blame but themselves for their un-Christ-like behavior.less

Atheism definitely falls under the category of a 'religion'. See my post a few comments above.

Religion defined by Dictionary.com: "A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." 1. (A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the uni...more

Religion defined by Dictionary.com:

"A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

1. (A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.) Atheists believe the universe started with the big bang and evolved from there.

Our 'cause, nature and purpose' is to be just a speck in the process.

2. (especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies) Especially means not always - There are a few (some old, some new) religions recognized that do not have 'gods' per se but 'super' human (more powerful than) influences from alien scientists and warlords, ancestor worship, etc. The natural power of the universe through evolution is the Atheists' superhuman agency.

The universe is our 'creator' through evolution.

3. (usually involving devotional and ritual observances). Atheist groups meet on a regularly scheduled basis to socialize, affirm one another, listen to lectures, financially contribute to the cause and discuss ways to advertise and fill their ranks with like-minded people. These groups elect leaders to represent and officiate.

Church and preacher.

They also practice and refine counter-arguments with the intent to debate and convert those who believe in God.

Evangelism.

4. (And often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.) Morality comes up the most in arguments with Atheists. How do we define morality without God? The Atheists answer is this: Our similar morality in world religions teaching charity, not lying, not stealing, not killing is a manifestation of instinctual behavior that evolves to protect and harmonize the species.

A moral code that can be pointed to that can be used to 'govern the conduct of human affairs’.less

Hereigns7, you said "To follow Christ example then individuals give to the poor not Rome." That was because Rome was a pagan nation at the time. Worshipping a plethora of Roman gods. If the US was really a 'Christian Nation' then wouldn't it be reasonable to act on the governmental level in a Christ-like fashion? House the homeless, feed the hungry, heal the sick, etc? We cannot be a capit...more

Hereigns7, you said "To follow Christ example then individuals give to the poor not Rome."

That was because Rome was a pagan nation at the time. Worshipping a plethora of Roman gods. If the US was really a 'Christian Nation' then wouldn't it be reasonable to act on the governmental level in a Christ-like fashion? House the homeless, feed the hungry, heal the sick, etc?

We cannot be a capitalist and a Christian nation. A man cannot serve two masters...and neither can a nation.less

Katharina, you do realize that the Bush family and the Saudi royal family are very close allies right? Bush Sr. and Jr. sold them weapons and gave them favors. The Bush family ties to the Saudi royals goes WAY back. Believe me, they are much closer friends than Obama ever will be to them. And there is nothing at all wrong with greeting someone in their culture's customary fashion. Americans sha...more

Katharina, you do realize that the Bush family and the Saudi royal family are very close allies right? Bush Sr. and Jr. sold them weapons and gave them favors. The Bush family ties to the Saudi royals goes WAY back. Believe me, they are much closer friends than Obama ever will be to them.

And there is nothing at all wrong with greeting someone in their culture's customary fashion. Americans shake hands, asian countries tend to all bow to each other and in Saudi Arabia it is considered good form to bow to the 'king' just as it is customary to bow to the 'queen' in England. It is a sign of respect, not a message of servitude or allegiance.

And just because Obama is trying to reach out to the muslim world instead of dismissing them as 'ungodly heathens' does not mean he identifies as Islamic nor wants Sharia law.

Think about it for a moment. Countries and areas under Sharia law still penalize, arrest and even execute homosexuals. If Obama was really a follower of the Quran, don't you think he would be anti-gay instead of pro-gay?

Do you have any sources or proof of any kind that Obama is promoting Sharia law? Or are you assuming that because he bowed to the Saudi King that it means he secretly wants the US to become a Muslim nation?

He also bowed to the Japanese Prime Minister. Maybe that means he wants the US to become Shinto or Buddhist?less

Clover: Many conservative Christian blacks voted against inter-racial marriage too. Whites are not the only ones who incorrectly interpret the 'don't mix tribes' idea presented in the OT. What uneducated people fail to realize is that God was commanding them to not mix with other religions, not races. It was a way to try and protect His people from being led astray by those they came to love. ...more

Clover: Many conservative Christian blacks voted against inter-racial marriage too. Whites are not the only ones who incorrectly interpret the 'don't mix tribes' idea presented in the OT.

What uneducated people fail to realize is that God was commanding them to not mix with other religions, not races. It was a way to try and protect His people from being led astray by those they came to love. It had nothing what-so-ever to do with race.

In the NT the scriptures also warn about mixing religious beliefs in marriage. Not because you are supposed to shun other people and discriminate against them in society. It is because a man/woman who loves their spouse will often allow pagan things to go on in the home and influence their children out of their love for their partner.

Which is why Christ makes the statement that if you love your husband/wife/father/child/etc more than Him then you are in error.

In addition, I wouldn't make the argument that 'majority dictates morality' if I were you because the American majority favor no-fault divorce and abortion rights. Just because a majority of voters believe something does not make it right.less

Believer, DADT absolutely forces gays to lie about their orientation. They may have erased the gay question on the application form but, as a military man, I am sure you know that while serving the soldiers talk to one another about their families and homes and loved ones. So, when such arguably-frequent conversations come up, gay troop have three choices: Lie, stay silent and lose a much needed '...more

Believer, DADT absolutely forces gays to lie about their orientation. They may have erased the gay question on the application form but, as a military man, I am sure you know that while serving the soldiers talk to one another about their families and homes and loved ones. So, when such arguably-frequent conversations come up, gay troop have three choices: Lie, stay silent and lose a much needed 'camaraderie' between soldiers in stressful situations or be honest and risk being reported.

For a gay soldier the choice is very unfair. They have to isolate themselves out of fear of being dishonorably discharged or lie about their home and families. Under DADT gay troop risk their careers just by wanting to have friends.less

Believer and DP - So which one of these non-gay-acceptng militaries are you claiming is so all powerful (aside from the US) because they have not succumbed to the 'gay agenda'? Most of the countries on the pro-gay list are much more powerful than the countries on the anti-gay list. Which of these countries do you think is 'strong' as a military presence and which are 'weak' and why? Surely you...more

Believer and DP - So which one of these non-gay-acceptng militaries are you claiming is so all powerful (aside from the US) because they have not succumbed to the 'gay agenda'? Most of the countries on the pro-gay list are much more powerful than the countries on the anti-gay list.

Which of these countries do you think is 'strong' as a military presence and which are 'weak' and why? Surely your not advocating the military style of communist China are you?less

Again Believer, you throw up a Straw Man: "but churches have been forced to allow same-sex wedding services to take place in their facilities and can you state with all certainty that this won't happen if same-sex marriage becomes the law of the land. " Yes, I can. Read on. As you yourself stated, this situation you are referring to was IN THIER FACILITIES! NOT their CHURCH. Facilities th...more

Again Believer, you throw up a Straw Man:

"but churches have been forced to allow same-sex wedding services to take place in their facilities and can you state with all certainty that this won't happen if same-sex marriage becomes the law of the land. "

Yes, I can. Read on.

As you yourself stated, this situation you are referring to was IN THIER FACILITIES! NOT their CHURCH. Facilities that they rent to all sorts of secular parties/groups and suddenly they wanted to discriminate. If they don't want that problem - don't rent space out to the general public.

There are plenty of Southern churches that still refuse to marry inter-racial couples or inter-religious couples and no one has forced them to do differently even though the 'law of the land' disagrees with them.

Get over the idea that you can tell another person how to live their life and what they need to be happy. Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose and I am sick and tired of people running about telling me to 'hide' in a closet so that they can go on pretending I don't exist and that my family or loved one is beneath them and deserved to be shunned by society.

You all are just mad and scared that you can't make us hide out of fear and shame anymore. Your 'rights' and 'religion' are not in any more danger now than they were during women's suffrage or the civil rights movement.

Get use to us or go crazy - either way I don't care because I am not going anywhere or changing who I am to suit someone else.less

This issue is very much on of fear on the part of straight, anti-gay, Christians. I relearn this lesson nearly every day of my life. I live in a mostly-conservative area. I am one of those people you 'know' are gay at first glance. I stand out because I am transgendered. Just last Friday I was at a birthday party for a friend who had such a person show up. This person took one look at me and s...more

This issue is very much on of fear on the part of straight, anti-gay, Christians. I relearn this lesson nearly every day of my life. I live in a mostly-conservative area. I am one of those people you 'know' are gay at first glance. I stand out because I am transgendered. Just last Friday I was at a birthday party for a friend who had such a person show up.

This person took one look at me and sheer terror came across their face. I smiled politely and then completely ignored them the rest of the night, wouldn't even look in their direction. (I know from previous experience that even an attempt at being friendly is construed by these people as a come-on, so to ignore them is best)

What's funny is that most of the time when this happens and the person in question is obviously attractive (which this person WAS beautiful and knew it) it starts to drive them crazy that your wandering around talking and flirting with everyone BUT them. Its like they just don't get it. They are scared I might hit on them and then somehow get offended when I don't.

And always, the anti-gay person in the room is acutely aware of me and where I am at all times. It's annoying and gives a person the feeling they have a tree growing on their head or something. Such people are WAY TOO obsessed with gays and who gays are fraternizing with. And so terrified that I might - what? - that they spend the whole time uncomfortable and on edge.

Again, that is the heart of this situation. People like me make scared bigots uncomfortable. Just my presence makes people go all weird. They want me to 'dress up' to meet their gender ideas and stop being who I am so that they can be 'comfortable'.

Guess what? I am American and I don't have to meet your 'ideas' of normalcy. In Germany you can be arrested for dressing up as a Nazi from WWII. Here you can run for office and call it 'just playing war games'. Have a little faith in your country people and quit fear-mongering over the gays.less

That is a Straw Man argument, Believer. Or else a Catholic chaplain would be forced to marry a couple in which one or both were previously divorced or when the female is already pregnant or if they are of a different faith. They ALREADY have the right to not participate in a marriage ceremony they religiously do not agree with just like regular preachers do. Why is everyone trying to say that ...more

That is a Straw Man argument, Believer. Or else a Catholic chaplain would be forced to marry a couple in which one or both were previously divorced or when the female is already pregnant or if they are of a different faith. They ALREADY have the right to not participate in a marriage ceremony they religiously do not agree with just like regular preachers do.

Why is everyone trying to say that will change with gay people when it didn't for blacks or secular marriages? There are 'justice of the peace' types to officiate weddings for our soldiers who want no religious overtones.

This is not Britain or Canada. This is America and our freedom of speech and religion is fiercely protected.

If gay marriage or openly gay service members were going to mean the 'downfall' of our country then half the world would be in downfall right now. All the freer and more 'Christian-or-God-fearing' nations already accept gays. Such as Canada, Britain, Spain, France, Sweden, etc.

America currently seems to prefer the company of the 'axis of evil' states and their ilk on this issue such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Korea, China, etc.less

What floors me the most about this situation is the argument coming from the likes of Hausknecht. The suggestion behind such words is rediculous. "[He] fears that a federal ruling in favor of repealing DADT will hamper military chaplains and Christian soldiers from expressing their faith." It groups together "Christians soldiers" in such a way as to suggest that Christian soldiers either: a...more

What floors me the most about this situation is the argument coming from the likes of Hausknecht. The suggestion behind such words is rediculous.

"[He] fears that a federal ruling in favor of repealing DADT will hamper military chaplains and Christian soldiers from expressing their faith."

It groups together "Christians soldiers" in such a way as to suggest that Christian soldiers either: a. Don't have anything to say to non-Christian soldiers right now about divorce, abortion, pre-marital sex, etc and are just happy to serve with any kind of sinner as long as it isn't a gay one. OR b. Whatever morality already expressed by Christian soldiers is accepted at whatever level already established without issue. Which then draws some kind of crazy accusation that our freedom of speech and religion laws are going to somehow be terminated by gay people.

It is an argument born of fear. The idea of having to share a room, let alone a dorm and a shower with a gay person terrifies the 'holy' from them and they run away screaming. We are not that powerful to bring down American born rights. You are just that scared. Grow up.less

Roanoke is an awesome name and one with historical significance in early American history. Anyone know why they changed it?

I have read several opinion pieces speculating what would happen if a DOMA case came before the Supreme Court. It is well known that the court leans toward the conservative which makes many people think, erroneously, that the current SCOTUS would rule in favor of upholding DOMA. Fact is the current conservatives on the Court are more Libertarian than traditional Conservative. Which means they...more

I have read several opinion pieces speculating what would happen if a DOMA case came before the Supreme Court. It is well known that the court leans toward the conservative which makes many people think, erroneously, that the current SCOTUS would rule in favor of upholding DOMA.

Fact is the current conservatives on the Court are more Libertarian than traditional Conservative. Which means they lean heavily on personal choice and small government. They rule in favor of keeping the government out of the picture as much as possible. Which means they are very likely to rule in favor of gay marriage.

Not because they agree with gay marriage or have any kind of social liberal bent, but because they would rule that the Federal Government has no Constitutional right to dictate morality and personal choice in such a matter.

My guess is that the DOJ and Obama already know that and want to hold it off for political reasons. I am willing to bet that once Obama secures another term in 2012 that the DOJ will suddenly jump on these cases and usher them into the SCOTUS realm asap.less

“The annual event purposely comes at the heels of the annual “Day of Silence” – a day when students vow silence to recognize and protest the discrimination and harassment against gays and lesbians.” This is not the reason the Day of Silence was started. The Day of Silence is done to remember those whose voices have been ‘silenced’ through violence, fear and death. To remember peop...more

“The annual event purposely comes at the heels of the annual “Day of Silence” – a day when students vow silence to recognize and protest the discrimination and harassment against gays and lesbians.”

This is not the reason the Day of Silence was started. The Day of Silence is done to remember those whose voices have been ‘silenced’ through violence, fear and death. To remember people like Matthew Shepherd and Tyler Clementi.

To remember people like my personal friend Adam who was beaten nearly to death and had the word ‘f.a.g.g.o.t’ carved into his forehead with a knife. A young man who before was open and an advocate is now silent and battles depression, thoughts of suicide and crippling fear in social situations.

It also represents how our enemies try to silence us with forced ‘closets’ through laws and social ridicule. It reminds those who participate, or are witness to the event, that that the Gay Rights movement is not about ‘special rights’ but is a fight for the right to simply exist.less

weekenderman, don't be silly. Obama wouldn't do that. If Obama is going to do that he will do it in 2012 to save himself, not the various Dems fighting for their seats in 2010.