Here is a quote from Jefferson, Kamaciei... "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" From: Notes on the State of Virginia

kamaciei, Just for the record, here is the rest of John Adam's quote: "But in this exlamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly.(his parish priest and Latin schoolmaster) Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell." Seems you left out a bit of important information. I'm sure the rest ar...more

kamaciei,

Just for the record, here is the rest of John Adam's quote: "But in this exlamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly.(his parish priest and Latin schoolmaster) Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell."

Seems you left out a bit of important information. I'm sure the rest are taken out of context just as much.less

Please excuse the typos.. Hate blogs for that reason.

If every Christian would get go through the Truth Project, published by Focus on the Family, we would " re-catechize believers, to re-introduce them to the glories of Christian truths, to train them to defend and live out their faith winsomely, reaching out to the needy and hurting as Christians have done for two millennia." Go to Truthproject.org. Find a conference or join a group ...more

If every Christian would get go through the Truth Project, published by Focus on the Family, we would " re-catechize believers, to re-introduce them to the glories of Christian truths, to train them to defend and live out their faith winsomely, reaching out to the needy and hurting as Christians have done for two millennia."

Go to Truthproject.org. Find a conference or join a group in our area and get trained. It has totally transformed many in my area, and is reaching more and more all the time. It even ends with the example of William Wilberforce as well.less

I heard a rather unusual comment from a "barely Christian" that attended a very traditional church. He noticed that the mega-churches were more lax in things like dress and traditional church stuff, yet were becoming more and more conservative in their views on the world. Mainline churches were focused more on the traditional religious stuff, but were more lax on social issues. I hadn&#...more

I heard a rather unusual comment from a "barely Christian" that attended a very traditional church. He noticed that the mega-churches were more lax in things like dress and traditional church stuff, yet were becoming more and more conservative in their views on the world. Mainline churches were focused more on the traditional religious stuff, but were more lax on social issues. I hadn't thought about it, but it is true.less

The problem is that we have let society decide what is right, not what is ethical based on a standard higher than our own pathetic lives. And please, spare me the pity parties for the poor gays. They are almost untouchable compared to the attacks on Christians these days. Christians are fair game for anyone. Just look at the last election where Sarah Palin was brutally mocked in San Fransico. Dar...more

The problem is that we have let society decide what is right, not what is ethical based on a standard higher than our own pathetic lives. And please, spare me the pity parties for the poor gays. They are almost untouchable compared to the attacks on Christians these days. Christians are fair game for anyone. Just look at the last election where Sarah Palin was brutally mocked in San Fransico. Dare anyone do that to a gay person these days. These problems can no longer be stopped as long as we live in a world with no absolutes, where one lie leads to another. Morals are "what is", and ethics is "what ought to be". We live in a society that determines morals based on 51% of the vote, or by court appointees that are influenced by the 51%. But 51% of the vote, or the decision of any judge, does not change what is right and wrong. That standard is set by God and the example of His character. I see a mass exodus from the public school system by Christians if this continues. Then see how well our public school systems function. Oh, but then, the liberals will come after homeschoolers and Christian education, like they have been trying to do already. I bet old-time communists are having a ball watching this brainwashing technique unfold. "We will insult your morals in the public schools, then we will make it illegal for them not to be educated in the public schools."

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to decieve.less

Mr. Colson, I hear so many great leaders like you saying the same thing. Why can't you all get together and make a group of the "untouchables" so to speak. Form a coalition that cannot be ingnored, even with a democratically controled congress and presidency. My suggestions would be Huckabee and Newt to start. I'm sure there are many others.

So why aren't churches that support democratic candidates threatened with losing their tax-exempt status, the way that churches that would like to support Republican candidates are? Why isn't Americas United for Separtion of Church and State yelling about this one? No need an answer, really. It is obvious. It IS America. What is right is wrong, and what is wrong is right.

agentorange. It is that kind of evidence of the transforming power of God, moving in people like Josh, that transforms other people to care for those in disaster areas. We live in a world that has and always will have disasters.It will not stop. Those kinds of disasters that remind us that we are and never will be in control. But how we, as people, care about those hurt by tragedies can change. ...more

agentorange.
It is that kind of evidence of the transforming power of God, moving in people like Josh, that transforms other people to care for those in disaster areas. We live in a world that has and always will have disasters.It will not stop. Those kinds of disasters that remind us that we are and never will be in control. But how we, as people, care about those hurt by tragedies can change. If you study history, it is the Christians that impacted the world with their ideas of caring for the outcast and desperate. It is the love that God gives us that moves us to share our hearts and finances with those in tragedies. It also shows that God, the creater of the stars and planets, also cares about what we care about. This is not about baseball. This is about life change. Sounds like you are blaming God for something that was taking away from you? Did you ever look at the other things that were given to you by that same God? Ever been grateful for that? If there is a God, a good force, then shouldn't there be an evil force? Ever get angry with the enemy of God for death? Who are you listening to?less

giantrobot What is your source? What transcipt?

Please do remember this: The Scriptures tell us that Satan hates God. He desires to steal, kill, and destroy everyone in this world, because they are created in the image of God. He is the father of all lies. Lies are his natural language. He also sometimes appears as an angel of light. What appears good is not always good. Even love can be distorted by him. Now, ask yourself, ââ‚...more

Please do remember this: The Scriptures tell us that Satan hates God. He desires to steal, kill, and destroy everyone in this world, because they are created in the image of God. He is the father of all lies. Lies are his natural language. He also sometimes appears as an angel of light. What appears good is not always good. Even love can be distorted by him. Now, ask yourself, “Am I created in the image of God? Is this the best that God has for me, or could Satan possibly have lied and stolen from me, and destined me for destruction? Have I decided to see what goes contrary to God’s obvious nature and scripture, as good?” If so, you are risking everything for the temporary. I am risking nothing. One day, we will find out who is correct. I have nothing to fear because I am standing of the truth and historical reliability of the scriptures. I would like to say that I think everyone goes to heaven, but then what about Hitler? Then where does the line get drawn between good enough and not? 5 sins? 25? 432? One murder minus 10 feeding the poor? No sin is acceptable before our Holy God. When asked what was the greatest commandment, Jesus (you know the one that like changed history and everything) said to “Love the Lord you God with all you heart, with all you soul, and with all you mind? And the second is like it. Love you neighbor as yourself.” And if my words cause you anger, I would suggest that you are probably on the side of the one that hates God. You cannot say God is your father and hate His word, His Holiness, and His people. Even if I am wrong, I have nothing to lose. I hope you have more to stand on than blog arguments and your own feelings. Till the end…less

To all those living a gay lifestyle: I am not a bigot, a hate monger, a religious nut, or a hypocrite, and neither are most true Christians. I will never call you names, and I would appreciate the same consideration, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, I can handle it. I don’t hate you. I feel for you. I love you as any other human being. I care about you. I w...more

To all those living a gay lifestyle: I am not a bigot, a hate monger, a religious nut, or a hypocrite, and neither are most true Christians. I will never call you names, and I would appreciate the same consideration, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, I can handle it. I don’t hate you. I feel for you. I love you as any other human being. I care about you. I want the best for you, in this life, and the next. Should you live next to me, I would be the best neighbor you ever had. I would never treat you with disrespect. Should you be my coworker, I will work along side you as any other co-worker. Should you demand that I agree and accept your lifestyle, which goes against nature, conscience, and scriptures, I will say no, regardless of what laws are passed.less

Okay, I repent. I have changed my mind. After taking a break and coming back to this argument, I have noticed something. None of us are getting anywhere. Words get twisted, angry words spoken, points ignored, and lies continue to build upon lies. I have no doubt that I am not going to change any of the minds, of those that believe homosexuality is okay, through arguing on blogs. And neither will...more

Okay, I repent. I have changed my mind. After taking a break and coming back to this argument, I have noticed something. None of us are getting anywhere. Words get twisted, angry words spoken, points ignored, and lies continue to build upon lies. I have no doubt that I am not going to change any of the minds, of those that believe homosexuality is okay, through arguing on blogs. And neither will those that support the gay lifestyle convince me to throw out the very clear standards of the Bible, the ones that have stood the test of time for 2000+ years. The message of the Bible will remain long after all of us are all gone, no matter how hard you try get rid of it.

I am repenting of blogging these kinds of arguments. Not that I believe any less than I did. In fact, after these discussions, I am more convinced than ever that homosexuals are being held captive by lies. But that this is not productive forum at all.less

kamaciej Tough circumstances make bad laws. Never said they needed to live a lie.

AHHH! And if heterosexuals were to stop participating in sexual immorality, they would not be getting aids and stds either. No disagreement there. Gee, if we all just followed the basic principals of the Bible, we wouldn’t be having these problems in either of these groups now would we? Again, the age 48 was WITHOUT aids being a factor. As far as the Jews comparison, we see...more

AHHH! And if heterosexuals were to stop participating in sexual immorality, they would not be getting aids and stds either. No disagreement there. Gee, if we all just followed the basic principals of the Bible, we wouldn’t be having these problems in either of these groups now would we? Again, the age 48 was WITHOUT aids being a factor. As far as the Jews comparison, we seem to be going around in circles. Blacks, Jews, ? I bet many in each of those groups would be highly offended at that comparison. Originally, I compared the ACT of slavery to a searing of the conscience in the ACT homosexuality. You cannot compare the treatment of black people and Jewish people to ACT of homosexual behavior.less

When a small group of Christians act in a way obviously contrary to the what Christ taught, the rest of the Christian community openly denounces it. Examples would be bombing abortion clinics, and those that protest at the funerals of soldiers. Where are the homosexuals denouncing the "gay pride" parades??? Again, why aren't they crying for cures? I guarantee you I treat them no di...more

When a small group of Christians act in a way obviously contrary to the what Christ taught, the rest of the Christian community openly denounces it. Examples would be bombing abortion clinics, and those that protest at the funerals of soldiers. Where are the homosexuals denouncing the "gay pride" parades??? Again, why aren't they crying for cures? I guarantee you I treat them no differently than any other person, probabaly better than the I do most religious people that know the law, but not the heart. Again......caring about someone does not mean letting them do whatever they want. It may seem contradictory, but it is not.less

No, Mike, I have to disagree. I don't think you get it. Preference stills involves a choice. My body may prefer chocolate cake, but I have to make it choose something healthier and better for me. Do I have no control what-so-ever? Not an easy battle, but not impossible. I don’t know the current statistics, but about 10 years ago the average life expectancy of a gay m...more

No, Mike, I have to disagree. I don't think you get it. Preference stills involves a choice. My body may prefer chocolate cake, but I have to make it choose something healthier and better for me. Do I have no control what-so-ever? Not an easy battle, but not impossible. I don’t know the current statistics, but about 10 years ago the average life expectancy of a gay male was only 48 years of age.(without AIDS) 40 when AIDS was considered a factor. I’d say a cure should be of prime importance in this country. It is an extreme health concern. More so than chocolate!

And rollin4him… Regardless of how mad someone makes you, as a Christian you should NEVER result to name calling. Jesus only called the extreme religious people names, (brood of vipers, hypocrites) never the sinners or His followers.. Please..less

Hey, Look what was just sent to me in my email. A gay pride parade sponsered by McDonalds! Warning! Photos are graphic! Does anyone really think ANY God would say this is okay????????? If so, I guess He better come back and apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah. (sp?) http://boycottmcdonalds.com/detail.aspx?id=106

MikeNYC, You said that homosexuality is no different the preferring blondes to brunettes. So you ARE preferring one over the other? Male over female? In other words, you are making a choice?? What if I should prefer someone else's husband over mine. Just a preference, right? And Kamicajie, I fully believe that Christians will be held accountable for our treatment of gays as people. G...more

MikeNYC,
You said that homosexuality is no different the preferring blondes to brunettes. So you ARE preferring one over the other? Male over female? In other words, you are making a choice?? What if I should prefer someone else's husband over mine. Just a preference, right?

And Kamicajie, I fully believe that Christians will be held accountable for our treatment of gays as people. God will judge the church. Do not fear there. I have no animosity toward gays. I do not hate any of them and I try to treat them with as much respect as any other human being. I truly have compassion for them. I cannot imagine the internal conflict. That does not mean that I agree with them, and that does not mean that I stand by and say, "Fine, whatever you want is okay." That is not love. I have a right to say is not okay to parade down the street of "gay pride", having sex on the street. It is my country as well. And I have a right to say that it is not okay for homosexuals to marry. Or should my speech be silenced just because it is Christian? Isn't that bigotry? Isn't that hate? Does anyone in the homosexual community own a mirror? Can we just talk openly and honestly without calling names?less

kamaciej Uh... our constitution was strongly based on the Bible. Check out WallBuilders.com for original sources to prove that point. As far as God's will, I combine what I know about God from what he as made, the conscience that He has given me, and the scriptures. If they all three don't line up, then I don't take a strong position on the subject. So for homosexuality, my c...more

kamaciej
Uh... our constitution was strongly based on the Bible. Check out WallBuilders.com for original sources to prove that point.

As far as God's will, I combine what I know about God from what he as made, the conscience that He has given me, and the scriptures. If they all three don't line up, then I don't take a strong position on the subject. So for homosexuality, my conscience tells me it is wrong. Nature tells me it is wrong. And the scriptures tell me it is wrong. What do you use to know God's will? How do you justify that something is okay? Blogs? Yourself? Isn't that making a God in your own image? I believe that is breaking of the first commandments.... Which other ones should we throw out? Murder? Adultery? Stealing? Let us pick and choose why don't we?less