It's all about money, isn't it? Nothing about the Cross, nothing about God's power showing up in weakness per Scripture. A theology of glory. Sigh.

"Repentance is repentance." Well said. And the criteria for an overseer in God's church are just as clear. Haggard does not meet them.

Aaron and JCH, Recommend you check out Randy Alcorn's book, "Heaven." And Randy is NOT a liberal theologian.

So, Paul's words in 1 Timothy 3 mean nothing then?

Calvin, And how exactly is Bishop Wright wrong in what he says? God promises to renew His creation--not destroy it. And is it true? the "world" ceased to be good? I think you are proving Wright's point.

"Prophet," No one on this blog is criticizing repentance as an "attribute." Paul's criteria for an overseer of a church go beyond this' these are Scriptural criteria, not mine.

Please look at the words, the adjectives, of 1 Timothy 3, artm: "above reproach," "sober-minded," "self-controlled," "respectable." These are Scripture's criteria for an overseer in God's church. These aren't "man-made" rules.

I am a justified sinner--as are you. But you still have not dealt at all with the text of 1 Timothy 3. According to the Apostle Paul, Haggard is not qualified for the position of overseer in God's church. This has NOTHING to do with God's forgiveness.

The Bible does not say "restore someone to his office;" you are confusing categories. Again--deal with the verses from Timothy; don't ignore them.

Artm, I'm not talking about me, or Peter, or John Mark, but about Ted Haggard. The fact is he does not meet the criteria for overseer, as outlined by the Apostle Paul.

Artm, Read carefully 1 Timothy 3, where Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, outlines the qualifications for overseers in a church, and then tell me with a straight face that someone like Haggard meets the criteria. It DOES NOT just take forgiveness by God of a sin to qualify someone to be a minister in His church.

Artm, Forgiveness by God DOES NOT equate to restoration to the ministry. Jeepers. This is "sloppy agape." The Apostle Paul--remember him?--had qualifications for those overseeing a church body.

Star, So "works" don't save you, but your "obedience," does; and our obedience isn't works. And you get that from ONE verse in Scripture when the rest of Scripture testifies we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. OK.

Star 2, Thanks for the reply. So Paul was kidding when he said, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, "By grace you have been saved, through faith, and it is the gift of God." Or, "by works of the law shall no man be justified."? Or, "God justifies the wicked."

And let me ask another question: do you "obey" Christ in all things? And is this verse, after comparing other parts of Scripture, meant to say that we are saved by our obedience?

Thanks for clarifying, Blacksho! See you in church!

Star 2--yes, I understand that verse to refer to Christ. But how does OUR obedience save us?

Star 2,"Obedience to what Jesus Christ has revealed to you" is what saves you?! Since when? We are saved solely by the grace of God--remember Ephesians 2?

Blacksho 89, Thanks for the reply. If OUR church disappeared from the community--our church members would miss it; this is where our faith is built up and Christ feeds us, through the preached Word and the Sacraments. Faith comes by hearing--remember? And our Lord has COMMANDED that we not neglect the assembling of the brethren--surely His Words are important. It seems that some of us evange...more

Blacksho 89,
Thanks for the reply. If OUR church disappeared from the community--our church members would miss it; this is where our faith is built up and Christ feeds us, through the preached Word and the Sacraments. Faith comes by hearing--remember? And our Lord has COMMANDED that we not neglect the assembling of the brethren--surely His Words are important.
It seems that some of us evangelicals are following the path of the liberal Episcopals in the 60s who sold out the Gospel message (of what God has done through Christ) for the "social gospel," which is no Gospel.less

Amen, Daniel Paul! We are to love God and love neighbor. Well put. But--and I hate to split hairs, I see nothing here that we "worship God" through our service to our neighbor. Cancelling worship services to serve your neighbor is not a form of worship of God; it's a profound mistake of what worship is.