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Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
notw06's Comments
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Penrose continues,
Even if we were to write a zero on each separate proton and on each separate neutron in the entire universe -- and we could throw in all the other particles as well for good measure -- we should fall far short of writing down the figure needed. The precision needed to set the universe on its course is to be in no way inferior to all that extraordinary precision that we have already become accustomed to in the superb dynamical equations (Newton's, Maxwell's, Einstein's) which govern the behavior of things from moment to moment. -
Roger Penrose, the Rouse Ball Professor of Mathematics at the University of Oxford, discovers that the likelihood of the universe having usable energy (low entropy) at the creation is even more astounding,
namely, an accuracy of one part out of ten to the power of ten to the power of 123. This is an extraordinary figure. One could not possibly even write the number down in full, in our ordinary denary (power of ten) notation: it would be one followed by ten to the power of 123 successive zeros! (That is a million billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion zeros.) -
steve--
It would appear that some fairly brilliant-minded men disagree with your muddled argument against "fine tunning". -
In his best-selling book, "A Brief History of Time", Stephen Hawking (perhaps the world's most famous cosmologist) refers to the phenomenon as "remarkable."
"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers (i.e. the constants of physics) seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". "For example," Hawking writes, "if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers (for the constants) that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life. Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty."
Hawking then goes on to say that he can appreciate taking this as possible evidence of "a divine purpose in Creation and the choice of the laws of science (by God)" (ibid. p. 125). -
The fact that the universe exhibits many features that foster organic life -- such as precisely those physical constants that result in planets and long-lived stars -- also has led some scientists to speculate that some divine influence may be present.
August '97 issue of "Science" (the most prestigious peer-reviewed scientific journal in the United States) featured an article entitled "Science and God: A Warming Trend?" -
Sir Fred Hoyle:
A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintendent has monkeyed with the physics, as well as chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. I do not believe that any physicist who examined the evidence could fail to draw the inference that the laws of nuclear physics have been deliberately designed with regard to the consequences they produce within stars. Adds Dr. David D. Deutch: If anyone claims not to be surprised by the special features that the universe has, he is hiding his head in the sand. These special features ARE surprising and unlikely. -
hey, agent, or ERV, or whatever--
how does your faith (darwinism) answer to the fine-tuning evident in physics? Where, o where, has your wisdom gone? -
hello ERV--
Neither does God explain the fine-tuning evident in physics. Guess He did not find it relevant to our salvation. And not all biologists are spiritually blind, dead-in-deception-and-sin atheists. Think. This is a self-evident principle: every effect requires an adequate cause, and nothing can cause itself. Belief in a personal God who designed all things and grounds transcendent moral law is not unreasonable. Atheism is more at odds with sound reason. You cannot break God's laws any more than you can break the law of gravity and get away with it. In the end, both will see you broken. -
hey, agent--
You irrationally point at your own faulty worldview and childishly expect all others to accept your conclusions (well, at least those you have adopted from other spiritually dead children of satan). It is not unreasonable to believe in God. Design is evident not only in biology, but also in physics where no naturalistic explanation such as darwinism (your faith) can find argument against the Creator. Even Richard Dawkins admits this. And this fine-tuning argument led to the conversion of Antony Flew. So please, study all evidence, and know your own ignorance, as each man should before God. -
Oh, my. AO, still at it. Is this truly all you do? Defend gramma chim-chim, belittle those who won't accept your faith, call yourself an intellectual, but cannot spellcheck. You are a sad little man. Spiritually dead, deceived by your father, the father of all lies. So soon to be twice dead, plucked up by the roots. Hopelessly deluded. And no I won't answer your self serving questions. Please go away from your computer long enough to see that you do not have a life.
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"strive to make man great through his ever-growing understanding"? Our society is an immoral, murderous, pill-popping, adulterous, idolatrous, lying mess. What has secular humanism wrought? It has infiltrated the church, so I cannot blame those who have no grasp of the true seperated remnant. The Christian witness in this nation is soiled with greed, foremost amongst its sins. Not all are brothers. Not my words--Christ's. Still, the theology of atheistic evolution is no answer for the "striving" of mankind. In Christ, the truth will set you free.
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Extinct apes are not my relatives. No matter how many youtube downloads you point out, I will never worship at the altar of great-grandma chim-chim. I will follow Christ. I will obey God. And I will take the Bible above your "wisdom" always.
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Evolution Weekend Highlights Religion, Science Debate
notw06 »Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:59 pm
Agree: 0 
Disagree: 0
"Generation after generation, through countless cell divisions, the genetic heritage of living things is scrupulously preserved in DNA ... All of life depends on the accurate transmission of information. As genetic messages are passed through generations of dividing cells, even small mistakes can be life-threatening ... if mistakes were as rare as one in a million, 3000 mistakes would be made during each duplication of the human genome. Since the genome replicates about a million billion times in the course of building a human being from a single fertilised egg, it is unlikely that the human organism could tolerate such a high rate of error. In fact, the actual rate of mistakes is more like one in 10 billion."
(Miroslav Radman and Robert Wagner, The High Fidelity of DNA Duplication... Scientific America. Vol. 299, No 2 (August 1988, pp 40-44. Quote is from page 24))
atheist notice--the previous quote is meticulously cited
agent--is it only legit if if comes from the web? is information only legit if it comes from the mouths of atheists who would rather have faith in aliens and accidents that require greater faith than proposed by any religion? -
Evolution Weekend Highlights Religion, Science Debate
notw06 »Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:30 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
"In most people's minds, fossils and Evolution go hand in hand. In reality, fossils are a great embarrassment to Evolutionary theory and offer strong support for the concept of Creation. If Evolution were true, we should find literally millions of fossils that show how one kind of life slowly and gradually changed to another kind of life. But missing links are the trade secret, in a sense, of palaeontology. The point is, the links are still missing. What we really find are gaps that sharpen up the boundaries between kinds. It's those gaps which provide us with the evidence of Creation of separate kinds. As a matter of fact, there are gaps between each of the major kinds of plants and animals. Transition forms are missing by the millions. What we do find are separate and complex kinds, pointing to Creation."
(Dr Gary Parker Biologist/palaeontologist and former ardent Evolutionist.)
Is this taken out of context? Hmmm... -
Evolution Weekend Highlights Religion, Science Debate
notw06 »Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:29 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
"The intelligent layman has long suspected circular reasoning in the use of rocks to date fossils and fossils to date rocks. The geologist has never bothered to think of a good reply."
(J.O'Rourke in the American Journal of Science) -
Evolution Weekend Highlights Religion, Science Debate
notw06 »Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:29 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
"The fossil record pertaining to man is still so sparsely known that those who insist on positive declarations can do nothing more than jump from one hazardous surmise to another and hope that the next dramatic discovery does not make them utter fools ... Clearly some refuse to learn from this. As we have seen, there are numerous scientists and popularizers today who have the temerity to tell us that there is 'no doubt' how man originated: if only they had the evidence..."
(William R Fix, The Bone Pedlars, New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1984, p.150) -
Evolution Weekend Highlights Religion, Science Debate
notw06 »Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:28 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
"Not one change of species into another is on record ... we cannot prove that a single species has been changed."
(Charles Darwin, My Life & Letters) -
Evolution Weekend Highlights Religion, Science Debate
notw06 »Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:27 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
"The more scientists have searched for the transitional forms that lie between species, the more they have been frustrated."
(John Adler with John Carey: Is Man a Subtle Accident, Newsweek, Vol.96, No.18 (November 3, 1980, p.95) -
Evolution Weekend Highlights Religion, Science Debate
notw06 »Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:19 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
"The fact that a theory so vague, so insufficiently verifiable, and so far from the criteria otherwise applied in 'hard' science has become a dogma can only be explained on sociological grounds."
(Ludwig von Bertalanffy, biologist)
"Micromutations do occur, but the theory that these alone can account for evolutionary change is either falsified, or else it is an unfalsifiable, hence metaphysical theory. I suppose that nobody will deny that it is a great misfortune if an entire branch of science becomes addicted to a false theory. But this is what has happened in biology: ... I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science. When this happens many people will pose the question: How did this ever happen?"
(S Lovtrup, Darwinism: The Refutation of a Myth (London:Croom Helm, p.422))
please note citation -
Evolution Weekend Highlights Religion, Science Debate
notw06 »Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:15 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
"Generation after generation, through countless cell divisions, the genetic heritage of living things is scrupulously preserved in DNA ... All of life depends on the accurate transmission of information. As genetic messages are passed through generations of dividing cells, even small mistakes can be life-threatening ... if mistakes were as rare as one in a million, 3000 mistakes would be made during each duplication of the human genome. Since the genome replicates about a million billion times in the course of building a human being from a single fertilised egg, it is unlikely that the human organism could tolerate such a high rate of error. In fact, the actual rate of mistakes is more like one in 10 billion."
(Miroslav Radman and Robert Wagner, The High Fidelity of DNA Duplication... Scientific America. Vol. 299, No 2 (August 1988, pp 40-44. Quote is from page 24))
atheist notice--the previous quote is meticulously cited
notw06 »
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