Mark Beeson stated, "The church is one generation away from total extinction at any given moment in time. That is the sobering truth that will motivate veterans [to change] because they don't want the church to die." Does this bother anyone else? So WE "make" the church alive by what we do programmaticly? WOW, if this is where the Body in the US has come. Talk about self-absorbed overstatement ...more

Mark Beeson stated, "The church is one generation away from total extinction at any given moment in time. That is the sobering truth that will motivate veterans [to change] because they don't want the church to die."

Does this bother anyone else? So WE "make" the church alive by what we do programmaticly? WOW, if this is where the Body in the US has come. Talk about self-absorbed overstatement of historical importance!less

The problem with quoting "statistics" like "93% are atheists ..." is that the NAS is an isolated community. I've worked on special committees for both the NAS and NRC and the backgrounds of the members are very narrow and isolated. What you are seeing is a self-selected group. And, unfortunately, most of the current members "grew up" professionally under the influence of the relatively recent phil...more

The problem with quoting "statistics" like "93% are atheists ..." is that the NAS is an isolated community. I've worked on special committees for both the NAS and NRC and the backgrounds of the members are very narrow and isolated. What you are seeing is a self-selected group. And, unfortunately, most of the current members "grew up" professionally under the influence of the relatively recent philosophy that religion and science are mutually exclusive. This notion has been promoted both by hypereligious and atheistic groups. But in my 30 year experience among physical scientists, while the majority of practicing scientists do not actively practice a specific faith, well more a third were quite devoted to a faith perspective (JudeoChristian/Muslim/Eastern). The problem with being a faith-based scientist is that it isn't very sexy to either the atheistic science core or the anti-intellectual Christian pop gurus. There is nothing about my faith that prevents me from factually evaluating data of my own generation or that of others. The notion that Collins will be unable to perform his duties is spurious, if not scurrilous. The man's credentials in science are much better than those of his detractors.less

Now if he would define sinful sex both within and external to marriage, that might be something innovative. And don't just fall on the "sex outside of marriage" canard (since there is no Scripture that clearly indicates this is sinful except in the cases of adultery, sex as worship of idols, and homosexuality) perpetuated by common church teaching.

philo, the ratio that you refer to has not remained constant historically. At least give a reference when you promote urban legends, please.

If you look at the actual survey data, you will see that the sample population is less than 0.04% of the total number of practicing scientists, engineers, and technologists as reported by the NSF. Only a little over 40% of the respondents actually stated that they are atheists. The difference between those that stated that they believe in God was not statistically different than those that claimed...more

If you look at the actual survey data, you will see that the sample population is less than 0.04% of the total number of practicing scientists, engineers, and technologists as reported by the NSF. Only a little over 40% of the respondents actually stated that they are atheists. The difference between those that stated that they believe in God was not statistically different than those that claimed to be atheists. Also, the population for this survey (the AAAS membership) includes anyone who calls themselves a scientist, including librarians, political scientists, feminist studies profs, and historians. About a third of the members who were mailed or emailed questionnaires responded.less

blacksho There are no federal cases that prohibit support of religious institutions by federal monies. If you know of any, cite them please. What is prohibited is the favoring of one group over another (establishment). As long as the association with the group is voluntary and not mandatory, stare decisis clearly indicates that religious clubs are allowed on state properties if any other vol...more

blacksho

There are no federal cases that prohibit support of religious institutions by federal monies. If you know of any, cite them please.

What is prohibited is the favoring of one group over another (establishment). As long as the association with the group is voluntary and not mandatory, stare decisis clearly indicates that religious clubs are allowed on state properties if any other voluntary clubs are given the same access to incidental government benefits such as electricity, space, etc.less

Back in the 90's, I worked with one of the imams who converted Mike Tyson to Islam. I also worked with radical Shiites in Beirut. In each case, I shared and debated Christian theology with them. Does my association with these people debase my faith and status in the Lord? I think not. Lighten up folks, at least Warren has gained the respect of this extremely hard group to engage (the Islamic ...more

Back in the 90's, I worked with one of the imams who converted Mike Tyson to Islam. I also worked with radical Shiites in Beirut. In each case, I shared and debated Christian theology with them. Does my association with these people debase my faith and status in the Lord? I think not. Lighten up folks, at least Warren has gained the respect of this extremely hard group to engage (the Islamic leaders) to the extent that he will speak at a major conference. Please pray for his communications while you are condemning his participation.less

Where does a person contact them?

So blacksho, your theory is that it should be ok for a Christian club to be controlled by non-Christians? So the right of free-association is canceled by the establishment clause as currently defined? I live in the area of this school and the internal administrative discussion (that the ST conveniently doesn't mention) that led to the addition of the faith clause for voting privileges was tha...more

So blacksho, your theory is that it should be ok for a Christian club to be controlled by non-Christians? So the right of free-association is canceled by the establishment clause as currently defined? I live in the area of this school and the internal administrative discussion (that the ST conveniently doesn't mention) that led to the addition of the faith clause for voting privileges was that the school officials specifically wanted non-Christians to be able to determine the direction of the club. What you are missing here is that at the same time as this issue arose, the state of WA determined that primaries that excluded independents from voting were OK. This system was later overturned by the Supremes. So the students were asking at the time the same right of free association that the State extended to political parties.

And "establishing" is not the same thing as "supporting" as was determined by the Supremes early in the country's history during a suit that would have prevented governments from providing paved roads in front of churches. The meaning of the use of that word is different in today's usage than what it was when the Constitution was drafted and it is clear from historical analysis of language that the was no clear consensus that governments were prevented from having any connections to specific religious institutions at the time of the framers. This prohibition is a construction of the post-WWII Court (that is the prohibition of any overt connection between government and specific religion) and only applies (from a US constitutional perspective) to federal governmental actions anyway. There is no such prohibition in the WA state constitution, nor in the State case law.less

I can verify that the last statements in this interview accurately reflect Dr. Winter. My personal experience with Ralph was encapsulated by those statements. Let's pray that this openness to learning and most importantly PEOPLE infected the remaining folk at the Center and FMF.

Unlike the Graham dynasty and others, Brother Ralph lived simply and actively shunned the superstar mentality that infects American Christianity. He lived the teaching of Our Lord in the parables of the widow's mite and the Pharisee's prayers. RIP, departed brother and friend.

I had the pleasure of meeting Ralph in 2002. I was sitting in the cafeteria at USCWM, and he and another gentleman asked if they could sit with me. I was attending a preservice orientation before going to a summer language mission trip and didn't know who the gentlemen were. When Ralph introduced himself, I knew that I had heard of the name, but didn't make the association. The three of ...more

I had the pleasure of meeting Ralph in 2002. I was sitting in the cafeteria at USCWM, and he and another gentleman asked if they could sit with me. I was attending a preservice orientation before going to a summer language mission trip and didn't know who the gentlemen were. When Ralph introduced himself, I knew that I had heard of the name, but didn't make the association. The three of us had a wonderful conversation and shared stories about experiences in the Field for the Kingdom. When we parted, we prayed that the Lord would bless our future missions. He was such an unassuming and encouraging person, I asked one of the leaders of the mission org about Ralph's affiliation. No ego, no need to have special seating, willing to sit and encourage the average person. He will be missed, but we rejoice in his achieving his reward with the Father.less

I've taught English in China and during over 40 hours of direct discussion with a Chinese full professor of philosophy, he clearly expressed (on his initiation) that as one who had lived through the various purges in China and a native son of China, Christianity was the ONLY logical religious, philosophical choice that provided the hope for progress in China. And we talked in great detail abo...more

I've taught English in China and during over 40 hours of direct discussion with a Chinese full professor of philosophy, he clearly expressed (on his initiation) that as one who had lived through the various purges in China and a native son of China, Christianity was the ONLY logical religious, philosophical choice that provided the hope for progress in China. And we talked in great detail about the theological and philosophical nature of Christianity and his conceptions of Christianity as a transcendental worldview.

With due respect, I have to defer to the opinion of my Chinese colleague when considering the viability or suitability of Christianity for Chinaless

chi-town, good one! I'm still chuckling.

I have to complement many of you who posted comments on this article. It is refreshing to see some general civility and intellectual discussion, a rarity in today's literary bomb-throwing culture on the Web. Personally, I don't particularly care for Ham's general attitude towards believers who disagree with his perspective (probably a function of his hyper-Calvinist theology) and...more

I have to complement many of you who posted comments on this article. It is refreshing to see some general civility and intellectual discussion, a rarity in today's literary bomb-throwing culture on the Web.

Personally, I don't particularly care for Ham's general attitude towards believers who disagree with his perspective (probably a function of his hyper-Calvinist theology) and I could see how a public institution such as the Zoo (at least when I lived in Cincy back in the '90's, it received subsidies of public money) might want to be careful of too close association with strong-opinioned, acerbic individuals such as Ken.

IMHO, there is sufficient room in what can honestly be indisputably known about the Lord's Creation activities, that in the long run, arguments over literal v figurative periods of time in Genesis are simply a diversion from what we are called to be as servants in the Kingdom, salt and light. How does an argument of the meaning of "yom" further the Kingdom?

I've taught in the physical sciences for several decades now, and in all of that time, I've never met or heard the personal testimony of a single person who came to a saving knowledge of Our Lord through arguments over the Creation act/process (not saying that they don't exist, just never encountered such a person in the thousands of people that I have interacted with in a scientific arena as a Christian). I have on the other hand, personally talked to or heard many intellectual advanced persons who were convinced of the reality of a Loving Creator God, based in the Walk of His servants and the caring attitudes exhibited by them.

Argumentation is fun, but I encourage y'all to be certain that you balance it with graceful love.less

Believer I support your activity as a missions director. As a person who grew up SBC, then later left after more in-depth Bible study, I agree that missions are important (been a bivocational missionary in the past in a Islam-dominated country). But the problem that I see in most modern American internal missions efforts (Campus Crusade, Willow Creek, Saddleback, among others) is that the proce...more

Believer

I support your activity as a missions director. As a person who grew up SBC, then later left after more in-depth Bible study, I agree that missions are important (been a bivocational missionary in the past in a Islam-dominated country). But the problem that I see in most modern American internal missions efforts (Campus Crusade, Willow Creek, Saddleback, among others) is that the process of missions is backwards from the model in Mathew 28. Marketing principles have trumped the Biblical pattern of making disciples first, then baptizing them (or in today's calvin influenced pop theology, get them to agree with a "sinner's prayer" spoken by the pastor). Being a disciple is more than some initial recognition of the need for a right relationship with the Loving Creator (as though this some great insight, even Paul wrote that this ). And people wonder where the "get-out-of-hell-free-card" mentality comes from (personally, I'd say weak theology, but not interested in starting a doctrinal debate here ;-)), that I witnessed as a boy in the local SBC church.

I hope that the new marketing/evangelistic effort incorporates more substantive Word study than those I've witnessed over that last 40 years as a Christ Follower.less

Homosexuality is a lifestyle (every gay and lesbian that I have personally known in over 30 years has used that term to describe themselves in private conversation, and I have interacted with hundreds at this point in life in my career) ... and homosexuals are no more tools of satan than adulterers, thieves, liars, gossips, etc. I suspect that each of us has done this one of these at some time. ...more

Homosexuality is a lifestyle (every gay and lesbian that I have personally known in over 30 years has used that term to describe themselves in private conversation, and I have interacted with hundreds at this point in life in my career) ... and homosexuals are no more tools of satan than adulterers, thieves, liars, gossips, etc. I suspect that each of us has done this one of these at some time.

I think that rev, DH and fx have analyzed it correctly (this was a marketing decision). But that fact does nothing to negate the appropriate rejection of the use of one's private money for purposes that are offensive (note that I state Private money and not taxes). We still have the right to avoid purchasing products and services from corporations who are offensive (I don't buy things from companies that pollute and refuse to clean it up at their own expense, for example). In legal terms, there still (barely) is a constitutional right of free association (see the Boy Scout case law) that eHarmony refused to assert. So I suspect that the marketers at eH are behind this announcement of the settlement, trying to play the "poor us, we're persecuted through the courts and see how those awful people made us do something that we know is offensive to our clientele" card to their primary customer base. This is what is despicable. They should just admit it was purely a business decision. Now they get free marketing in the gay community (some will subscribe just to "support" the new service as a slap at those mean evil Christians who have swallowed eHarm's bait and issue statement of lack of support). Pretty shrewd? Yes. Manipulative? Absolutely.less

To blame the persecution of our fellow Believers on US political policy is naive. Is that why much worse and extensive persecution occurs in India and China (I've been there and seen it personally)? The US policies have caused no more "suffering & death around the world" than the policies of other countries themselves. In fact, balanced view would suggest that the US on balance ...more

To blame the persecution of our fellow Believers on US political policy is naive. Is that why much worse and extensive persecution occurs in India and China (I've been there and seen it personally)? The US policies have caused no more "suffering & death around the world" than the policies of other countries themselves. In fact, balanced view would suggest that the US on balance in total dollar value of humanitarian contributions to the rest of the world FAR exceeds such contributions of other countries outside of their own borders. Not jingoism, just hard data.

Perhaps it is because we are not in control (nor should we be) in Iraq as they are taking more control, that this is occurring. This would seem to be the reason that fits more closely with what we see across the world with respect to Christians being persecuted.less

It is clear from Scripture that those who presume to take the role of teacher are held to a higher standard. Forgiving him is a no-brainer as a Believer, allowing him to throw himself right back into the addictive behaviors that contributed to his "fall" (his are classic control addiction symptoms) in the first place is not healthy nor Biblically sound.

Having been to China for an extended period, I can attest that Mr. Willis is spot on with one exception. This isn't a waste because of a new printing press, it has been a waste for at least 7 years! The danger and poor witness that American Bible smugglers commit is simply not good for our fellow Believers in China. This activity appeals to a pseudo-persecution/God's secret agent mentali...more

Having been to China for an extended period, I can attest that Mr. Willis is spot on with one exception. This isn't a waste because of a new printing press, it has been a waste for at least 7 years! The danger and poor witness that American Bible smugglers commit is simply not good for our fellow Believers in China. This activity appeals to a pseudo-persecution/God's secret agent mentality that appeals to poorly informed and sadly misguided American Believers and to a "rejection of authority" mentality that is not supported in the Scriptures, and gives Chinese authorities "data" to support the common contention that Christians are criminals. The Bible Society of India and other Asian Bible printing agencies have plenty of capacity to meet the demands stated in this article. The problem is the financing. American, well-intentioned, but "pound-foolish" Believers will spend over $2000 trying to smuggle in 20-30 Bibles that are often in older translations from KJV to Mandarin (instead of modern translations from the "original" sources), putting themselves and their local hosts at risk, when the same amount of money could be used to distribute approximately 2000 Bibles legally through existing commercial avenues in Asia, while at the same time be true to Romans 13. Or at least the smuggling missions folk could just take money with them a buy the Bibles there, then give them to local Believers for distribution.

I suspect that if the real nature of the legality of having a Bible in China were to more greatly be disseminated, the US people who make a lot of money feeding to the fears of Believers through smuggling "ministries" would dry up.less