Although the New Testament does not state tithing is "required" I believe Christians should give with a glad heart. There are so many people who could use help plus like it or not, churches have bills to pay also.

John Piper seems to be losing it. He defends Rick Warren up and down and now Quran burning is like crucifying Christ. Sure. It doesn't even make sense!

Thanks for the MacArthur compliment (though maybe not meant as that). Nevertheless, I can respect your comment about agreeing to disagree.

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Take this study - Gay Adoption is harmful - international conclusion: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1417036/posts hide

Interesting to see the hoards of homosexuals flock to propagandize on a Christian site. The folks have no shame. The want our children to justifiy the molestation of children. If they are able to break the barrier of sickness in homosexuality, then why not have promiscuous sex with anything and everything. No boundaries.

Hi Steve. I tried to get through the article by Myers, but I must admit it was difficult to know exactly what he was attacking with all of the ill conceived slander and personal attacks. I have never seen such disrespect from someone who is considered a professional. Even worse was the following comments. I will admit that I am not a scholar and certainly not an expert on Alvin Plantinga's works. ...more

Hi Steve. I tried to get through the article by Myers, but I must admit it was difficult to know exactly what he was attacking with all of the ill conceived slander and personal attacks. I have never seen such disrespect from someone who is considered a professional. Even worse was the following comments. I will admit that I am not a scholar and certainly not an expert on Alvin Plantinga's works. I've listened to the handful of lectures available online several times over. I don't think Myers even wanted to understand the argument. Then Myers seems to agree that [given naturalism and evolution] we have no basis for thinking that our minds are reliable and then he asserts logical positivism.

Philosopher, Glenn Peoples has a few audio blogs on Alvin Plantinga if you are interested. He is very articulate and interesting.

http://www.beretta-online.com/wordpress/tag/alvin-plantinga/

I will be back hopefully sooner than later.less

wJ, those of us who believe God in this matter believe that in the local church a woman should not hold a role that gives her spiritual authority/headship over men. Now where the disagreement comes in is with regars to women teaching men. I believe what Paul was saying was not that women shouldn't teach men, but rather that they should not teach that it is permitted for them to have spiritual au...more

wJ, those of us who believe God in this matter believe that in the local church a woman should not hold a role that gives her spiritual authority/headship over men. Now where the disagreement comes in is with regars to women teaching men. I believe what Paul was saying was not that women shouldn't teach men, but rather that they should not teach that it is permitted for them to have spiritual authority/headship over men.less

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jrcp...studies are prone to bias and infiltration. You are okay with pedophiles because one study says that 1/3 of gay men are pedophiles as well. Sicko hide

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500 kids over 30 years - 15 different studies....what a joke of a study. Notice at the end of the article. NO society has ever existed where homosexuality was prevalent. Notice - as the USA regresses in debt, respect, and overall moral decay, homosexuality prevails. Gays adopting is disgusting and pedophiles will surface all the more. I'm sure you are okay with pedophiles too you sicko hide

Joseph Smith was a fraud. He was convicted of being a fraud right before he supposedly got the "golden" papers that became the Mormon Bible. If I were going to claim I had Biblical documents I think I would have held onto them as proof - he didn't. Smith didn't perform a miracle EVER - he was a con-artist and due to his belief in polygamy and marrying 14 year old girls I'd venture to say he was a ...more

Joseph Smith was a fraud. He was convicted of being a fraud right before he supposedly got the "golden" papers that became the Mormon Bible. If I were going to claim I had Biblical documents I think I would have held onto them as proof - he didn't. Smith didn't perform a miracle EVER - he was a con-artist and due to his belief in polygamy and marrying 14 year old girls I'd venture to say he was a pedophile as well.less

RBaty - Evidence? We are waiting for some facts and you just keep talking in circles.

“This is a classic example of judicial tyranny. The Arkansas Supreme Court has chosen to run roughshod over the people’s will and refused to uphold a good law that protected the children in the state’s care.” Translated, that means the court system has finally managed to sort out and straighten up the mess created by all of the "Family" Council's campaign of deceptions, disinformation a...more

“This is a classic example of judicial tyranny. The Arkansas Supreme Court has chosen to run roughshod over the people’s will and refused to uphold a good law that protected the children in the state’s care.” Translated, that means the court system has finally managed to sort out and straighten up the mess created by all of the "Family" Council's campaign of deceptions, disinformation and flat-out lies. Did anyone mention the court’s ruling was 7-0?less

It's a classic example of why we have a Constitution with a Bill of Rights, to prevent the whims of the majority from running roughshod over the rights of the minority. Bravo to Arkansas' judiciary for recognizing that.,

I find it amazing that the name of Jesus can't be mentioned in an ad but no one seems to do anything about showing homosexuals kissing.

alafoli, I don't feel frustrated at all. Evolution vs creationism isn't the first thing that struck me. It's his intellectual arrogance. That affects the conclusions he draws.

Are you judging me, Jerome? And as for my "assuming", am I wrong in my assumption?

biblemoth: "So is God's aim off, then, that people halfway around the world suffer for our sins?" Evidently kooks don't notice bad aim.

While hardly perfect in application, I do try to follow the rules. One rule that I have tried to follow is the one common to preachers when they deal with their adversaries. One of my adversaries, a preacher, in a debate with one of his other theological enemies, put the rule this way: > Sometimes it has been a debater's > tactic to take attention away from a > point by bringing up unre...more

While hardly perfect in application, I do try to follow the rules. One rule that I have tried to follow is the one common to preachers when they deal with their adversaries.

One of my adversaries, a preacher, in a debate with one of his other theological enemies, put the rule this way:

> Sometimes it has been a debater's
> tactic to take attention away from a
> point by bringing up unrelated issues
> to fog the clarity of the discussion.
>
> I plan to evaluate only those points
> that have to do with this proposition.
>
> If I am convinced that material offered
> in response to mine is off the topic, I
> plan to either expose it as such
> or totally ignore it.

Pretty good rule, it seems to me!

I hope this helps those with legitimate concerns about the course any serious discussion of my argument might reasonably take to understand why I may not allow myself to diverted off-topic or to matters premature.less

The tithe is not a magic bullet for all your money problems that protects you from the results of your bad financial choices as some lovers of Malachi like to insinuate. Living on less than you make and staying out of debt are essential (also biblical). The tithe is blatantly missing from the New Testament for a reason. We once see Paul giving alms, but the only instruction we have for our givi...more

The tithe is not a magic bullet for all your money problems that protects you from the results of your bad financial choices as some lovers of Malachi like to insinuate. Living on less than you make and staying out of debt are essential (also biblical). The tithe is blatantly missing from the New Testament for a reason. We once see Paul giving alms, but the only instruction we have for our giving is to do it CHEERFULLY and not under COMPULSION. Therefore, once you discover the generosity and graciousness of our Lord and Savior, you will naturally have a heart as He does for the proclamation of the gospel and those TRULY in need. The Lord may put it on your heart to do something for a neighbor or complete stranger or to pay someone to do work you could do yourself. There are many different ways in which we may give cheerfully because we know the Lord has put that need before us. If you do not feel cheerful about giving to the church you attend, ask yourself why. Maybe it is the Holy Spirit showing you something wrong in the teaching or leadership and you are meant to go elsewhere where you can give cheerfully. I believe that is part of why we are not instructed to tithe. The only way to stop false teaching is to cut off the finances to such churches and if people are giving tithes out of duty, the false teaching continues. It is a red flag when we have an opportunity to give but we don't feel cheerful about doing it. Look within and without when this happens. We have great freedom in our giving and we are called to be good stewards and wise in how we use all that has been entrusted to us. Christians look like saps for giving blindly (or in hope of a miracle) to hucksters on TBN and elsewhere. Do not give money to ministries who are not transparant about their finances and live extravagantly. Do not give cash to people on the street -- give them food or clothes. We live in a day and age where we are bombarded with attempts to part us with our money. In all things we need to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, and this goes for our giving as well. There is great blessing in giving as the LORD leads you, not man.less

Actually not all states were as misguided as Arkansas and never prohibited Gay people from adopting. Furthermore many times the kids are from a marriage that a Gay person was in to try and hide the fact that they were gay. When the marriage was dissolved they got the kids and later got a same sex partner. So yes there are reputable studies showing that Gay people make good parents. Since I don't ...more

Actually not all states were as misguided as Arkansas and never prohibited Gay people from adopting. Furthermore many times the kids are from a marriage that a Gay person was in to try and hide the fact that they were gay. When the marriage was dissolved they got the kids and later got a same sex partner. So yes there are reputable studies showing that Gay people make good parents. Since I don't want to be accused of lying here is an address http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051012/study-same-sex-parents-raise-well-adjusted-kids If that is not good enough for you just google studies on gay parents. I know you won't because you are not interested in anything that might refute your prejudices against Gay people.less

To TORRENT: YOU are the liar. There are several reputable studies and if you spent more time educating yourself instead of FEEDING your Bigotry. Ignorance, and Hate, you would know this: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f32/research-shows-two-gay-parents-are-better-than-a-single-82086/ People like YOU want to deny gay people the right to marry the consenting adult of their choice, adop...more

To TORRENT: YOU are the liar. There are several reputable studies and if you spent more time educating yourself instead of FEEDING your Bigotry. Ignorance, and Hate, you would know this: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f32/research-shows-two-gay-parents-are-better-than-a-single-82086/ People like YOU want to deny gay people the right to marry the consenting adult of their choice, adopt children, etc., and people often CLAIM that their opposition is due to their religious beliefs or book (ie. The Bible). Many people (including Christians like me) are fed up with so-called religious people who CLAIM to believe/follow everything in the Bible, yet they hypocritically pick/choose which verses to follow as they attempt to hide their bigotry, hate, and or/ignorance by blaming religion. They say the Bible is the ‘Word Of God’ for verses that support their PERSONAL position on a subject, but IGNORE the Bible when passages do not support their positions.

I read the Bible daily as a ‘Guide‘, but I do NOT believe and follow everything in the Bible, because my God has given me a brain and has cautioned me to understand that ANY religious book (including the Bible, Quran, etc.) has been touched, manipulated, and/or written by IMPERFECT Man, and many passages are based on the ‘mores’ of the times, NOT the inspiration or the ‘Word Of God’. These holier than thou, self righteous, hypocrites quoting the Bible are often ‘Wolves in sheep clothing’ preying on religion and flock for their selfish Wealth/Greed, Bigotry, Hate, and/or Insecurities. Truly sickening. And
if YOU or anyone who may disagree with my comments above, and CLAIM to believe EVERYTHING in the Bible, and that ALL passages in the Bible should be followed, please say if you agree as the Bible states that you should be put to death for working on the Sabbath day (ie. Sunday). Other passages include, Stoning to death women who engage in pre-marital sex (Deut. 22:13-21), stoning to death men committing adultery with a married woman (Deut. 22:22), stoning to death children who disobey their parents (Deut. 21:18), slavery (Deut. 15:12-17), or beating a man with a whip for committing a crime (Deut. 25:1-3)? Men having multiple wives (Deut. 21:15), ostracizing a woman by separating her from her family/friends during her menstrual cycle (Lev. 15:19-24, Num, and a woman grabbing genitals of the man fighting her husband would have her hand cut off. (Deut. 25:11).

If you say that you DO NOT agree with and follow the above passages, then it would seem to be pretty CLEAR that you probably pick and choose from the bible based on your prejudices, bigotry, hate, and/or ignorance . . . And YOU should be one of the LAST people pointing to the Bible ranting and railing that a person should be denied Equal Rights because of a Bible passage, or because you have interpreted a Bible statement in a certain way . . .less

(1) Lpepperw still didn't answer the two, simple, fundamental questions. (2) GiG1 wrote of me, "You said you had empirical evidence for evolution" and cited no such comment by me. (3) The minor premise of my argument is irrelevant at this point should there be any serious interest in discussing my argument and the claims I have made for it. Is there interest here? Who will answer? I...more

(1) Lpepperw still didn't answer the two, simple, fundamental questions.

(2) GiG1 wrote of me, "You said you had empirical evidence for evolution" and cited no such comment by me.

(3) The minor premise of my argument is irrelevant at this point should there be any serious interest in discussing my argument and the claims I have made for it.

Is there interest here?

Who will answer?

Is my argument constructed such that
if its premises are true the conclusion
will follow as true therefrom?

Is the major premise of my argument,
given the stipulations as to the meaning
of its terms/phrases and the force and
effect of sound, biblical, common-sense
reasoning, true?

Basic stipulations:

> God's word - communication from God
> in words that cannot be wrong.

> Interpreted by some - what some think
> the text means and which thinking
> might be wrong.

> Empirical evidence that... - some
> thing is more than a few thousand
> years old and we can so determine
> from the evidence independent of
> the text.

As the recent record here indicates yet again, the very profitable demonstration from my adversaries helps explain why young-earth creation-science promoters have failed in their scientific pretensions and legal challenges (e.g., they refuse to recognize simple, logical formulations and statements that are logically true).

If we can get a consensus here regarding the two fundamental questions, then maybe we can revisit the empirical evidence issue as reflected in the minor premise; I say revisit because some have apparently missed how that matter might be easily disposed of in explaining why it is young-earth creation-science promoters reject the evidence of age and have otherwise failed in their scientific pretensions and legal challenges.

If that changes, maybe we can work out a deal to take any successful rebuttal to my argument "public" and change the course of world history.less

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to condone their hate. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothin...more

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to condone their hate.

Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.


http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/
http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
http://www.goodhopemcc.org/spirituality/sexuality-and-bible/homosexuality-not-a-sin-not-a-sickness.htmlless

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to condone their hate. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothin...more

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to condone their hate.

Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.


http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/
http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
http://www.goodhopemcc.org/spirituality/sexuality-and-bible/homosexuality-not-a-sin-not-a-sickness.htmlless

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to condone their hate. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothin...more

We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God's words to condone their hate.

Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.


http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/
http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
http://www.goodhopemcc.org/spirituality/sexuality-and-bible/homosexuality-not-a-sin-not-a-sickness.htmlless