Survey: Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons Differ Vastly from Born-Agains

pastorpablito »

Sat May 17, 2008 3:04 am Agree: 12   Disagree: 1

Beware, it is not THAT you believe in Jesus, it is WHAT you believe about Him!
JW's believe that Jesus is NOT God, He is NOT part of the Trinity. He is NOT equal to God. He is "a god" and a created being. They believe he was Michael the Archangel before coming to earth and that as Michael, his "life force" was transferred by holy spirit to Mary. They believe that Jesus is the mediator only for the "anointed remnant" and not for all men. The also believe that His ransom paid for Adam's sin alone and that gives people an opportunity to earn their salvation by believing in God and doing good works.

That is just the tip, the list goes on and one. Their beliefs can change, because their prophecies don't come true and also based on what people will believe and accept.

They have their own corrupted Bible translation called the New World Translation.

Do some studies.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Fri May 09, 2008 7:16 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

msnchris70,
My last words here (hopefully).

I was in the Catholic faith for 30 years so I'm not making statements about something that I know nothing of.

My advice to you is this; go read some research on the Catholic Church that ISN'T produced BY the Catholic Church. Your getting biased material. The best way to study something is not to set out to prove that it is right, but to set out to prove that it is wrong. THEN, if it is true and right, it will stand up to the test. If you try to prove that what you believe is right, the only evidence you will see is that which supports your theory.

God bless and take care.
Pablito

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Fri May 09, 2008 7:08 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

msnchris70,
I have never claimed that I do anything special. And, I do keep in accord with the faith of the Apostles. I read and heed their words everyday. I believe in what Jesus said in Luke 17:9-10 Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? 10 So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'" (NIV)

I am only doing my duty for my God who has saved me ONLY by His grace. It is to Him I owe my salvation and He is where it comes from. Eph 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. (NIV)

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Fri May 09, 2008 4:31 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

msnchris70,
My song is "I did it His way", yours is "I did it THEIR way". Why do you continue to follow man instead of the Word of God?

I just got through showing you that I follow the church as it was established in the first few months, not hundreds of years! I follow the teachings of the Apostles that are recorded in the Scriptures! I don't need a guy in Rome telling me when to sit, stand, kneel, bow and do a sign of the cross. Why do you follow tradition and ritualistic worship that has the roots of paganism?

The "historical roots" are written in the Bible, not in the several hundred or thousand years afterwards. The building of the Catholic church was all about the men involved and their desire to have power. That's why the mass was in Latin for so many years. To keep people thinking there was something mystical about it and above their heads.

The Catholic church didn't want it's people reading the Bible themselves, because then they would lose the power that they had over the members. Wake up and smell the coffee! You have fallen into the same trap as the others.

Martin Luther got it and he scared them when he realized that what they were selling was a pack of lies. All he wanted to do was question their erroneous doctrines and when it threatened to take away their power, he had to go. Thank God he did so we could have the freedom of the real Scriptures!

My works that PROVE my faith are daily, how about yours? I'm in the trenches. I've given up everything for my walk with Christ. I don't need the "historical continuity" that came after the Apostles. That's when man started to pervert the purity of the Scriptures. Same thing happened when the leaders of the Israelites started to get together and "interpret" what God's law meant, instead of just reading it. The ended up concerned about the Law instaead of the purpose of the Law. You and the Catholic Church are doing the same thing. The parallels are painfully obvious to everyone but you.

If you can't read the Bible and figure out what you walk with Christ and your relationship with God is supposed to be like, then you are truly in sad shape and I guess you will continue to follow other men instead of God.

I pray that God will open your eyes to the truth of HIs Scriptures and His Church and NOT the history of a man made church.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 11:51 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Chris,
You missed my point, my church IS the earliest form of church that there was. Here is the scripture to back up my position, Acts 2:42-47 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. (NIV)
That is the earliest form of church there was my friend. It's not about buildings and hierarchies, it's about doing what Jesus commanded us to do, Love one another. Help those in need and preach the Gospel. I do it every day, to the drug addicts, to the alcoholics, to the poor, to the sick, to the hungry, to the people no one wants anything to do with.

Don't come here and preach to me about my church, you know nothing about my church. I preach the Word as God has revealed it to me.

Talk about tradition, the Catholic Church is steeped in it. And Jesus spoke about that too.
Mark 7:5-8 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"

6 He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

"'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." (NIV)

The problem is, the Catholic Church doesn't search the Scriptures any more, they have made up their mind what they believe and the only study that they do is trying to back up what they believe, not seek new insight. The Scriptures are living things, Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. (NIV) You can read it today and then tomorrow and God may reveal something new to you.
More and more will be revealed as we get closer to His return. Get back into the Word and quit listening to Rome!

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 8:48 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Let me say one last thing. Even Paul and Peter had disagreements on some matters of doctrine. Christians must stand in unity on the core and foundation of our faith and that is Christ as our Lord and Savior and His sacrifice as payment for our sins. God will judge our individual and collective doctrines as HE sees fit. In the end, it doesn't matter what we believe, it only matters what He believes (or actually knows!)

God bless you all, (msnchris70, et al.)
Pablito

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 8:02 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

Msnchris70,
You want to know my church? It’s the street, it’s a small little upper room in a house in a third world country. It is not some grandiose cathedral building with gold and statues and incense and Latin. I come as a servant of the Most High God, with the power of the Holy Spirit and by the authority that I have through Jesus Christ as my Savior.

1 Cor 2:1-5 When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power. (NIV)

You want to follow a man with a stick and a pointy hat, that is your right, I’ll follow the Lord.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 7:57 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

1 Cor 1:10-15 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (NIV)

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 7:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

msnchris70, another thing, before you go spouting off about Sunday being the Sabbath, you better go do some long hard study. You are way off on that. It's a whole other discussion I have spent three years in deep study over with many writings.

Sabbath was, is and will be the seventh day, not the first. (Along with other special days and years). The day of the week that people choose to worship on may be different, but the Sabbath is still the seventh day and it belongs to the Jews, not the Catholics or Baptists or any Christians. It was a sign of the Old Covenant and has no bearing on the New.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 7:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Msnchris70, “The Church interpreted the Bible, not you.”

What are you smoking? I am the church. We are the church. The church isn’t that group of people in Rome, it is the Body of Christ.

1 Cor 12:27-28, Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers,
(NIV) Sorry, don’t see Pope or Father any where in there!

You want more scriptures, Matt 23:1-12, Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5 "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. (NIV)

This passage is VERY clear about the use of Father and Teacher and Master in use as a “Title of Honor”. The other scriptures you talk about were not used that way and if you can’t tell that by reading them, then my posting them here for you won’t help either.

1 Cor 4:14-16 I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. 15 Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. (NIV) This is CLEARLY a different use of the term father. It is a parental guardian way and not used in the same context that Jesus was talking about in Matt 23.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 7:18 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

As far as the church being built on Peter, I give you Eph 2:19-21 “Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.” (NIV) ApostleS and ProphetS, with Jesus as the ROCK, the cornerstone which it is built on.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 6:49 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

The point of this whole discussion was because msnchris70 decided that he needed to tell everyone that the SBC are unbiblical in their having a president for their convention.

From the SBC website:
"The term "Southern Baptist Convention" refers to both the denomination and its annual meeting. Working through 1,200 local associations and 41 state conventions and fellowships, Southern Baptists share a common bond of basic Biblical beliefs and a commitment to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the entire world."

The SBC is general in some of the doctrines that they have as a group. The individual churches still remain autonomuos. They come together as a "convention" because of the common bond that they have and to provide strength by their numbers in their efforts of evangelism, ministries and missions. A president, vice president, etc. is to provide order and leadership to the group, not so that they can be exalted as the supreme Baptist ruler.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 6:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Anglocat,
Exactly who was it that decided that you are now the one that can say when someone is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT on an issue? After all these years of controversy, you have now cleared it all up for us. Well, I guess that settles it because you said so.

Sorry, I guess I retract all of my statemnets then. msnchris70, you are right and I am wrong because AngloCat said so.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 6:20 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

msnchris70,
You just twisted the “father” passage until it looked like a pretzel. It has nothing to do with earthly father, or school teachers or even Master locks.

The Catholic Church has elevated the ones that they call “father”, including the Pope, to a position of mediator between the people and God. That is when the use of the term is wrong. To use it in the other contexts as an earthly, supportive, nourishing figure in your life is the way to use it as a sign of respect. To bow down before Popes and priests and kiss rings is wrong. And this title for him of “Holy Father” is akin to blasphemy.

You can twist it any way you want. I left the Catholic church because of their bad doctrine. And by the way, you twisted it again with the Rome version of the 10 Commandments. Go read the Hebrew version (they belong to the Jews anyway, not the Catholics!), Sabbath is number 4.

I have taken it in context my friend, the Catholic Church has taken it out of context to allow for the elevation of men to positions of power and authority. They are the Pharisees and Sadducees of today.

The Catholic leaders need to try servant leadership, not “lordship!”

And by the way, I lay that at the feet of ANY and ALL church leaders. If you are not a servant leader, you’re reading the Book wrong.

More Southern Baptists Vie for Presidency

pastorpablito »

Thu May 08, 2008 3:11 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

msnchris70,
Where do you get off talking about the Baptist’s convention and how it operates? Maybe you need to go study what a convention is and then come back and make comments.

I grew up in the Catholic Church and I am now a Baptist. If you want to talk about unbiblical, the Catholic Church hits the trifecta. Where exactly was that Pope position established, because it isn’t in any Bible I have ever seen and I’ve seen a lot (Don’t try to give me the Peter/Rock argument). What I have read is this, let’s just start with the Pope, which means father, Matt 23:9, “And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven” (NIV). That is straight from the mouth of Jesus and it does not need any interpretation. Then there are the “Padre’s or Father’s” in the local churches, same passage applies along with, 1 Tim 2:5-6, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (NIV).

Do you really want to get into the debate over Peter the pebble and Jesus the Rock? I won’t even start into the Mary issue.

But really, don’t worry about it, because I’m just using a little dry humor!

(BTW, before anyone gets in an uproar, I am not here to say that Catholics are not Christians or to bash them, but I’m not going to put up with what msnchris70 is selling. You bashed, then craw-fished with your “dry humor” remark when you got called.)

We build on the foundation of Christ and God will be the judge of what we build with. 1 Cor 3:11-15 “For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” (NIV)

Rick Warren on Moses' Staff and Book's Success

pastorpablito »

Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:07 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

CP2008,

Thank you for your comments. I have not spent a lot of time researching RW and what he is doing now. I don't watch that much TV down here anymore. My comments mostly are based on the positive impact I have seen in the past from The Purpose Driven Life, actually the 40 Days of Purpose ministry material when used properly in a church. When it is used in conjunction with the small group studies and the weekly sermons at church, I think that it is an effective tool.

I personally know people who gave their hearts to the Lord during those small group studies. On it's own, I think it may a little lacking. I don't think the original purpose of the book was to just be handed out as a means of spreading the Gospel (I may be wrong). But my point is, used properly it is a good tool.

As far as everything else RW has been doing, like I said I don't agree with everything anybody does. I was not pleased about him giving his pulpit over to Hillary Clinton, even if it was an AIDS conference.

I was under the impression and again, I may be wrong, but after Joel Osteen missed his opportunity on Larry King to present a clear Gospel, I thought I heard that (and maybe saw) excerpts from RW on Larry King where he laid it out wery well. But like I said, I may be wrong about that.

I do think that some pastors can get a little overboard with trying to be TOO creative in their preaching. My sermons tend to be about 60% scripture and 40% Pablito.

If RW is straying away from presenting a clear Gospel, I pray that he will find his way back. The truth is not hard to sell once you have an audience although not all will buy it (unfortunately).

God bless,
Pablito

Rick Warren on Moses' Staff and Book's Success

pastorpablito »

Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:04 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

And one more thing, remember these warnings, Rom 14:4 “Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls.” (NIV)

Rom 14:12-13 “So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.” (NIV) God will take care of His servants.

None of us knows what goes on with the day to day of all these preachers. We only hear the snippets and what others say about them. I would imagine you could pick a few things out of any of our lives and/or sermons and make us all look like heretics. Do any of us know how much salvation goes on in the back rooms of Saddleback or in the homes of the members or even the office of Rick Warren?

I always looked at Purpose Driven Life, not so much as an evangelism tool, but as a Christian growth book. I watched it do wonders to the lives of believers in many churches and I also saw many become Christians as they were ministered to by others in their small groups and found salvation.

Do I agree with everything Rick wrote? NO, but then again I don’t agree with everything anybody has written. Piper, MacArthur, McDonald, my theology professors and the list goes on and on. I know I see fruit from Rick Warren’s ministry and others and I would ask the critics to show us YOUR abundance of fruit before we listen to you attack them. Let’s get you and your ministries into the media and limelight and see how well you hold up to the test.

Rick Warren on Moses' Staff and Book's Success

pastorpablito »

Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:40 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

I’m not here to say one way or another about Rick Warren and some of the others. But I will say this, go stand on a street corner and shout “Repent, for the Kingdom of God is here!” Count how many people come running to you for salvation. I’ve tried it, it doesn’t work. Open a church and preach repentance every week and see how many remain after a few weeks or even show up to begin with. I’ve seen it, it doesn’t work. The job of preaching the Gospel is not exclusive to pastors and the church building.

Those who want to condemn seeker services and attracting people in different ways should take a close look at what Paul says in 1 Cor 9:20-23 “To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.” (NIV) SO THAT BY ALL POSSIBLE MEANS, I MIGHT SAVE....SOME!!!!

I wish it was easy to do, my life would be simpler. But since it isn’t, I will give away clothes, addiction counseling, medical help, even serve sandwiches, cookies and coffee if it will get people in to our building to hear the Gospel. Until I get someone into my presence and willing to listen to me or someone else, I cannot share the Gospel with them. I want to look them in the eye and tell them about Jesus. Get them into a church and the body of Christ should be helping to do the ministering. I'm serving in a third world country where there is nothing to do, I can just imagine how hard it is to get to people in the rat race the US has become.

Peter saw 3000 saved in one day, but who were they? They were Jews who were waiting for a Messiah and he convinced them that day that Christ, the one they crucified, was the one they waited for. These weren’t materialistic, gotta have it now, greedy, drug and alcohol addicted, fun and sun worshipping, sexually immoral Americans (or whoever) (and yes, I am an American). If they had been, I would imagine that he would have had to have taken a different approach to get them to listen to him.

'American Idol' Brings Jesus Back to Worship Song

pastorpablito »

Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Correction: I said, "The non-Christian believers", I meant "The non-Christian listeners". My bad

'American Idol' Brings Jesus Back to Worship Song

pastorpablito »

Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

And BTW, my little sister is Catholic and she loves that song!