Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:41 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

RBB. Wonder if we know all of the details surrounding the memorial. Keep in mind, it is the author of the article that chose to describe this as a "pro-gay memorial" service" - that is the headling the author chose to characterize this. That was the author's opinion and the article, because of this, is more of a Commentary, than a news report. I have reviewed many other sources on this case, and in none of them, even in publications that have relgious affiliations, make any claim that the family wanted to hold a PRO_GAY rally of sorts. Nowhere is that claimed, except in the headlines of this article by this author? It is the author who is turning this story into a 'celebration of gayness', not the family or the participants in the memorial. If you look carefully at most of the 'articles' on this website, you can't ignore that they have a slant. Consider, what if the title of the article was "Mega Church turns family away and denies Navy Soldier a Christian memorial service to uphold it's Homophobic Anti-Gay stance: Is this how we 'support the troops? ask some Veterans." Hmmm, now that sounds a bit slanted too, doesn't it.

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:19 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

Wiccantexan and theseer1 make my earlier point. Fundamentalism has done more to turn people off to God than has brought people closer to God. Recent studies show most young people are rejecting religion in higher numbers than ever before. Young people from fundamentalist families, particularly mega church affiliates, soon leave the church after graduating college. The appeal of a mean spirited, unloving religion drive people to find other expressions of spiritualism. Wiccnatexan found Wicca to be comforting and fulfilling - something that was lacking in hsi/her previous affiliation. I can totally relate. I was raise in a very religious home, practiced my faith through and beyond college. It was only within the last 10 years, more closely to the last 8, that my interest in organized religion has waned. But I haven't lost my relationship with Christ. That goes on. What has totally turned me off is probably what turns off secularists in other countries of the Middle East - the loathing of pius self appointed voices of God pushing their fundamentalism and nationalsim on everyone. I don't want any part of it. Fundamentalism is evil. We see it be used in Islam, Protestansim, Cathaolicism, and Judaism to mention a few. No religion is immune from having it become hijacked. I love Christ. I love the sinner, but I do not love the sin of those who use Christ to promote their racism, their bigotry, their hate. Christ never hated anyone. Not even those who put Him to death. Nor did Christ ever turned away anyone, ever. So why is it that those who claim to follow Jesus feel so compelled to turn away those who Christ would welcome? I just don't get it.

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:57 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

There are many who have used the bible to justify all sorts of atrocities through out time. I hold the bible dear, but also recognize that it is a historical document, assembeld by the Catholic Church and then reformed by the English King James, head of the Anglican Church of England excommunicated by the Catholics. So, although I look to the bible for inspiration, I do so knowing that men with political agenda were involved with its asembly. Even those who formulated what is basic Chrisitan doctrine from the Council of Trent and Nicea, I have to recognize that these were men, perhaps inspired by the Holy Spirit, but nevertheless, sinful men with agendas. For me, the fundamental principle of Christianity lies solely in the CREDO: We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;by whom all things were made;who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead;whose kingdom shall have no end.And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets. In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:37 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

hey RBB, what I was trying to say was just to reaffirm what Jesus says that "only through Christ can we be saved". That being the case, I don't think it necessary at all for us to need to do anything - all the work is done by Christ Himself. His sacrifice has done it all for us. It is thru Christ we are saved whether we like it or not. It is His decision. Jesus was merely just stating a fact, that savalation is achieved only thru Him and Him alone. His sacrifice has won us salvation. I can do nothing to faciliate my own salvation - it is only thru Christ that it is possible. Our rebith in Christ is thru Christ's for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that we may be saved. Our salvation is fully dependent on Christ - at His choosing, not because I do this or I do that or I fail to do this. Christ brings us to a new life, a reborn life. This is what Jesus meant.

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:00 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

RBB: You provide 2 very important verses..
"John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

and
Acts 4:12 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."


I imagine bilbical scholars since the canon was selected, have debated the meaning of these passages. Might I offer up this possibility: Thru God's grace and the gift of His Son's Passion, Death, and Resurrection, won for all of mankind the gift of salvation. That thru this, we are all saved for once and for all. Drawing upon a classic protestant line of thinking, there is no act or work that we can do to win salvation - that it is only thru Christ we can be saved - surely then, it must be the case that salvation is a gift without need of work or deed on our part to initiate. Then, by that reasoning, only God knows who that gift is bestowed upon irrespective of any act performed by the individual. I submit, therefore, that no active act, including the overt act as some people refer to as "being saved" or "accepting Christ", be necessary to obtain salvation. For if God wills that His gift of salvation be bestowed, it shall be bestowed irrespective of anything anyone does or fails to do.

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:18 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

I must admit, I have lived a rather insulated life. My Christian personal religious experience has grounded in traditional liturgical apostolic mainline Christianity, so my experience with Christians from these so-called Mega Churches is rather limited. I get the impression that some are Fundamentalist Christianist while others are more in line with traditional reformed protestantism. The former scare me alot. These are the ones who interweave nationalism and fundamentalism into a dangerous mix in my opinion. I have often wondered, as I suspect alot of Christians have, as to what form the Anti-Christ would come. I am now convinced that Satan is making use of fundamentalist nationalism to pushing people away from God. If you think about it, what a clever, and Satan is a very clever angel, and bold way to lead God's people astray than to do so in the name of God. I mean, what a totally anti-Christian, diabolical way to get his foot hold on the souls of mankind. Who would suspect it? It is so easy. Think about it. Those of you who don't see something just inherently un-Christian about the way this Mega Church acted in this case - not out of love for one of God's creations, but just to stand by some percieved need to distance themselves from the lifestyle of the man so as not to appear as if they are condoning it. In thinking about this reason, and the emotion surrounding it and the various comments made here in favour of that church's position - what emotion, what feeling, what is it that comes to your mind? Surely it cannot be love for the sinner while hating the sin, for if that were the case, surely one would say "Certainly, hold the memorial and pray that God may forgive the man for his sins", but no - that does not appear to be the reaction at all. Moreso it seems the message is "Cast out the sinner, let us have nothing to do with him for he is unworhty - he is not welcome." So, what is the reaction to this by others? It paints Christianity as an intolerant bigot infested religion, not of love as it claims, but of piousness, self rightousness, and exclusiveness. A religon only for the sinless, the perfect, the wonderful. It sure makes Chrisitanity seem very unattractive.

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:45 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

Armor-1, by your logic, Jesus should not have only cast the stone at Mary Magdeline, but should have stoned her to death since that is what the law required. She was obviously unworthy and Jesus was just condoning her sinful lifestyle by allowing her to live. Yup, should have stood by His principles and put her to death.

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:34 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

dgnymn, I would not be so arrogent to say I claim to know what Jesus would say to anyone on judgement day. To me, that is a rather blasphemous claim and I think we tread too close to Jesus' prescription that we should not judge others lest we be judged by that same measure. I think God is infinitely merciful, just and loving - so much so that He will welcome all who accept Him -even the sinner. Oh, surely there will be a time of purification needed - we all are sinners and as such fall far short of what God expects of us. Nevertheless, God's love is infinite and beyond our feable understanding. So, in humbleness, I cannot say what God will do. All I can hope for, is that God will look upon us wither mercy and love and offer us redemption thru his gift of grace.

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:18 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

Fortheloveofthecross - a few points of factual clarification. According to the Oxford English dictionary, the definition of sodomy is quite precise - it is a noun meaning anal intercourse. It is not synomous with homosexual sex, though homosexual sex can certainly involve sodomy. Heterosexuals that practice sodomy are not homosexuals, therefore, your inference that the terms are one in the same is incorrect.

If the sin of sodomy is what irritates you and is sufficient cause to deny a practicing sodomite a funeral memorial service, then surely other such sins as discribed in Leviticus should similarly exclude people from such services. Sins such as eating pork, conuming meat from animals other than those that have cloven hoves and chew their cud, women who fail to clense themselve in the ceremonial bath during menstruation, mixing linen with cotton, eating meet seathed in its mothers milk, etc etc. Certainly sins that violate any of the big 10 should not be welcome, expecially adulterers. I would classify remarried divorces in this group too "for what God has joined together let no man put usunder". Yes, there are far too many sinners in this world, and by all rights, they should all be excluded - not just the evil gay people, but the fornicators, adulterers, blasphemers, and all who violate the Torah should just off with themselves and stay the H away from the pius righteous among us. For surely, the Lord did not come for these inferiors, but for the righteous. And if you believe that, then may the Lord have mercy on your soul. AD MAJREM DEI GLORIUM. Et in nomine Domini, et Filii, et Spiritu Santi. AMEN.

Texas Megachurch Harassed for Refusing to Host Pro-Gay Memorial

pax2you »

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:40 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

I think it incorrect to characterize a man's funeral as a Pro-Gay Memorial. How about just a memorial service to pray to God for the repose of the man's soul? I mean, the man is dead. His soul is in God's hands, and would it do so much harm to pray to God on behalf of the man his family, and his loved ones? How is this in anyway condoning homosexuality any more than it is condoning any other sin? If we only pray for those who are sinless, then why hold funerals at all for surely no one is righteous enough according to that measure. Or could it be, that God, thru His infinite love and mercy, could love this man - a prospect easy for God, but why so hard for human mortals to do?