The scriptures talk about speaking the truth in love. Also “Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.” (Galatians 6:1) When we see a brother or sister who has fallen, it is so easy to fall ourselves into haughty, smug Pharisaical self-righteousness. May whatever needs to be exposed, be exposed. B...more

The scriptures talk about speaking the truth in love. Also “Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.” (Galatians 6:1)

When we see a brother or sister who has fallen, it is so easy to fall ourselves into haughty, smug Pharisaical self-righteousness. May whatever needs to be exposed, be exposed. But let us not have attitudes like those who seem glad that non-believers are going to hell, rather than humbly praying for them.less

So what's stopping you johnson from joining the club? You hang out at a Christian web site making your comments. Are you a closet wannabe Christian? If so, why not join the club?

JB, your rants are more repetitive than anyone else I've seen on CP. Practice what you preach. Your continuous "fight" against the Word of God won't be won on message boards either.

If you can't see the problem, you are in huge denial, man

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Any article that disagrees with homosexual practices will be considered spreading false information by the gay agenda. Also cherry picking certain details while ignoring the rest, in vain attempts to put homosexuality on equal grounds with heterosexuality. Predictable as the sun in the morning. Another practice of the gay agenda: spreading false information about what the Bible says about homo...more

Any article that disagrees with homosexual practices will be considered spreading false information by the gay agenda. Also cherry picking certain details while ignoring the rest, in vain attempts to put homosexuality on equal grounds with heterosexuality. Predictable as the sun in the morning.

Another practice of the gay agenda: spreading false information about what the Bible says about homosexuality. Predictable again, as another way of trying to justify sin.less

hu6: Demonstrating the usual party line of the gay agenda: use condescending, bigoted remarks toward anyone who doesn't agree with promoting homosexual sin, in attempts to marginalize. Right out of "The Overhauling of Straight America". Textbook example.

steve, is a "hetrosexual" something like a metrosexual? Life is sure getting complicated! -:)

Ehman, read Ecclesiastes. There is nothing new under the sun, including your type of "scholarship" that was debated years ago. Yawn.

DP, his version is all Greek to me, except it doesn't agree with the original Koiné Greek.-:)

NewCreation, I'm not sure, like Daniel Paul, if I'm fully understanding your post. Are you saying the huge alcohol tab is the fault of Christians? Or that they are doing 80% of the drinking? That alcohol promotes intolerance? That we project our failures on to others? (I'm sure we have all done that). I just don't get your point. We need some clarification so that we can reflect more "soberly." ...more

NewCreation, I'm not sure, like Daniel Paul, if I'm fully understanding your post. Are you saying the huge alcohol tab is the fault of Christians? Or that they are doing 80% of the drinking? That alcohol promotes intolerance? That we project our failures on to others? (I'm sure we have all done that). I just don't get your point. We need some clarification so that we can reflect more "soberly."

You mentioned your concern about "accusing" and public debate. All we have to go by here in this forum are people's words - we can't hear their voice tone or see their body expression, or understand what problems they are wrestling with in life, unless they share. We can either agree or disagree with what people say. If people think a comment is abusive, they can click on the abuse button, which happens often enough, whether deserved or not. Everybody's "tolerance level" is different.

I would say that, for the most part, most of the contributors here wish each other the best, even if they strongly disagree with each other. There are some who have not shown sufficient respect and have been banned (sometimes signing in again under a new name). Yet there is a common humanity that supersedes our points of view. I've had some time off the last week so I have made a lot of responses in the articles about homosexuality. There are some I disagree with diametrically but I wish them well. And I dare to think that they also wish me well. God gives us all the same air to breathe and the same water to drink. We all have to make our own choices but at the end of the day can wish each other well.less

NewCreation, with all due respect for your approach, I'm attempting to show from the actual words of gays their hypocrisy and how their position cannot be held consistently. Hard core gays at this point are not open to the gospel. Others may be. There are people reading who never post. If an effective apologetic is not demonstrated, some can be swept into the gay deception, like many mainline chur...more

NewCreation, with all due respect for your approach, I'm attempting to show from the actual words of gays their hypocrisy and how their position cannot be held consistently. Hard core gays at this point are not open to the gospel. Others may be. There are people reading who never post. If an effective apologetic is not demonstrated, some can be swept into the gay deception, like many mainline churches have. I'm fully aware that Christians have to deal with their own hypocrisy or there is no moral authority. That is for each of us to work through.

When I attended university, I remember at the end of the year how several Christian students came up to me and thanked me for countering the prof's arguments with both logic and Christian history in such a way that even the prof came to respect me. I said to the students who thanked me, "Why didn't you speak up and help me?" They somewhat ashamedly said, "We didn't know what to say or how to counter the prof's arguments."

My rebuttals strengthened them in their faith and earned me respect from the prof, although during the year, I felt alone like a John the Baptist in the desert. But I deemed that I would be unfaithful to God to allow distortions and misrepresentations of the Christian faith go unchallenged. Because there were over 100 in the class, I would hope something that I said may have helped others come to Christian faith.

Paul also debated with the Jews and the Athenians. There is a place for the defence of the faith. I will be the first to acknowledge that salvation comes through a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in a person's heart. However, to help bring a person to that place, we often have to show that the Christian faith is credible. Jesus was full of grace and truth - we need both.

There are different callings and not all Christians are comfortable with open debate. That's okay. Pray for the rest of us that do speak openly. Read of Justin Martyr in the early church. Or read the book, "Bless Your Dirty Heart," by "Holy" Hubert Lindsay. He was a street preacher out in Berkeley in the days of the Black Panthers, who won many hardline radicals to Christ. You wouldn't be comfortable with his style but he got through to them. Another book, "Great Evangelical Preachers of Yesteryear" illustrates many different styles and approaches that God uses to win others to Christ. Some will respond to one way, some to another, some won't respond even to Jesus. Just the way it is.less

gd, I disagree. The strategy is not honest - it's manipulative and attempts to intimidate people into submission. The Overhauling of Straight America might be effective but it is dishonest and crooked. And it is far from the "strategy" of simply reporting on where Christian rights are not being honored.

wrhalver, I can read .pdf documents on my iPod Touch, so you should be able to read them on an iPhone. I just logged on to manhattandeclaration.org and can read the mobile document fine.

Whether it's bad science or not does not excuse you from saying it "should be illegal to post." I would rather have access to all interpretations, and decide for myself, not having someone censor me, like Apple in some Brave New World. As far as getting dinged for abuse, it happens to me also - goes with the turf. I just noticed a disagree for my clarifying the source of a quote by the author o...more

Whether it's bad science or not does not excuse you from saying it "should be illegal to post." I would rather have access to all interpretations, and decide for myself, not having someone censor me, like Apple in some Brave New World.

As far as getting dinged for abuse, it happens to me also - goes with the turf. I just noticed a disagree for my clarifying the source of a quote by the author of an article, when anybody can google it quickly to see the mistake; http://www.christianpost.com/news/how-to-offer-criticism-part-1-49577/. C'est la vie. People make their choices. Life goes on.less

gd, you say that The Overhauling of Straight America is a PR strategy, so it's okay, it can't be discredited. Then I can use the same evasion tactic and say that Melonakos is also just a PR article. Then nothing is real - it's all PR. Not to mention, who is doing the "discrediting" and "crediting"? Lots of politics and "PR" involved there...

JohnBartlett wrote, "Philomath, everyone sees through the agenda of those who wish to support man-made myth over the scripture. It was the same agenda as those who used the Bible to support segregation, stop mixed race marriage, condemn Jews, oppress women, etc." ---- Gay tactic alert: exaggerate and generalize beyond the present discussion, in pathetic attempts to marginalize those who disagree...more

JohnBartlett wrote, "Philomath, everyone sees through the agenda of those who wish to support man-made myth over the scripture. It was the same agenda as those who used the Bible to support segregation, stop mixed race marriage, condemn Jews, oppress women, etc."
----
Gay tactic alert: exaggerate and generalize beyond the present discussion, in pathetic attempts to marginalize those who disagree; for further explanation, see Kirk's "The Overhauling of Straight America"

"For the thousandth time, the Bible NEVER condemns homosexuality which is clear for all intelligent people to see."
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Gay tactic alert: re-interpret the Scriptures to justify the sin, and subtly slide in ad hominem attack

"You have yet to show that the Bible calls homosexuality a sin because it doesn't. Instead you condemn people and use un-Christian-like behavior against anyone who disagrees with you. Your posts show your true nature"
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Gay tactic alert: Refuse to acknowledge the repeated explanations of Bible passages and bait and switch to direct ad hominem attackless

I've never seen the version of the Bible that JohnBartlett reads. Is it some kind of new version? Or did he simply get out the scissors?

Do unto others: the same old tired gay argument: "if you disagree with me, you're a bigot, you're bashing me, blah, blah, blah." Yet somehow, if gays disagree with Christians, it's okay to bash them, it's not hateful, it's not bigotry, it's enlightened! Right. Hypocrisy at its finest. Just another dishonest tactic of the gay movement from "The Overhauling of Straight America" to try to suppress an...more

Do unto others: the same old tired gay argument: "if you disagree with me, you're a bigot, you're bashing me, blah, blah, blah." Yet somehow, if gays disagree with Christians, it's okay to bash them, it's not hateful, it's not bigotry, it's enlightened! Right. Hypocrisy at its finest. Just another dishonest tactic of the gay movement from "The Overhauling of Straight America" to try to suppress any opposition to their sin and hoodwink the masses. Business as usual.less

cmdvimes wrote, "@philo: gays want the same legal benefits that straight married people enjoy. I don't see why this is problem for the christian right unless they think their pastors are suddenly going to "turn gay". From news reports and personal observation, I've noticed that the most strident homophobes have some secret gay inclinations themselves." ---- Your original post stated, "So the l...more

cmdvimes wrote, "@philo: gays want the same legal benefits that straight married people enjoy. I don't see why this is problem for the christian right unless they think their pastors are suddenly going to "turn gay". From news reports and personal observation, I've noticed that the most strident homophobes have some secret gay inclinations themselves."
----
Your original post stated, "So the loss of special privileges is the same as persecution and intolerance now?" in YOUR criticism of Christianity. I simply carried it to it's logical conclusion from what YOU wrote. Instead of responding to your original premise, you avoid it because you don't like how your own premise would work if applied to gays. Time to change your premise?

Have you read the manipulative, dishonest tactics of Kirk's "The Overhauling of Straight America"? Look it up: http://www.article8.org/docs/gay_strategies/overhauling.htm. We see the same tactics used here by gays on CP.

Marriage is for heterosexuals. If you want some kind of a civil partnership, your choice, but just like in football or hockey, there are rules to follow, and in the case of marriage, based on original design. Gays want to change the rules rather than play the game right. Read one ex-gay's experience about the lack of truth in reporting of gay marriage, "The Truth About the Homosexual Rights Movement," By Ronald G. Lee at: http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3650. He talks very clearly about the lack of a sexual ethic in the gay movement.

Your pathetic attempt to turn the tables back on to pastors or those who disagree with sin is just like a politician, typical of the gay agenda. Instead of answering the question, deflect back on to the questioner.

And lastly, even if everybody in the world had same sex attraction, they don't have to act on it - it is simply another temptation, on a continuum of very strong in some to none in others; others are tempted about alcohol, money, heterosexual lust, power, whatever. Sin is sin.

Two Wolves

One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle
that goes on inside people. He said, "My son, the battle is between
two "wolves" inside us all.

One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret,
greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies,
false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity,
humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth,
compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked
his grandfather: "Which wolf wins?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."less