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Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009
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Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
psalm116's Comments
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How can I get this movie?
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Saddleback Pastor: Domestic Abuse Not Reason for Divorce
psalm116 »Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:16 pm
Agree: 0 
Disagree: 0
The bottom line here is that this truly is a scriptural gray area. I DO NOT believe that a woman will loose her salvation, or not be forgiven if she divorces a husband that refuses to repent and change his abusive ways. My God is bigger than that.
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Amen believer!
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Gay NH Bishop to Offer Prayer at Inaugural Event
psalm116 »Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:10 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 2
artm,
IMO Rick Warren should participate. How else will the TRUTH be spoken?
The time has come for Christians to stand up and speak out on the Word of God. God Word tells us to "be bold in Christ." We've been complacent too long, we have only ourselves to blame. -
believer, I should have expounded on my post. I totally agree with you. Speaking specifically of TFCC, there is no follow up/counseling with the person that signs the piece of paper for membership to see what they believe, so therein lies the danger of someone being in leadership that shouldn't be there. IMO the new "member" should give their testimony before the elders or the church, then the heart of the person will be seen.
Also, we can't judge who is Christian and who isn't. I know of several people who believed they were Christian and were leaders in their church. Then the Holy Spirit convicted them that they had only accepted with their head and not their heart and hadn't repented and accepted Christ.
It really is a fine line isn't it? -
nolalady,
I too do not have a problem with no alter calls, that is not scriptural. But what I do have a problem with is that the TFCC churches have a piece of paper that you fill out to become a member of the church and/or become a Christian.
I personally know of a woman that did not know she was a member of this particular TFCC church when she was told by the church that she was. She then found out that when her husband "signed up", he signed her up also, without her knowledge.
Being a member of a church is NOT SCRIPTURAL. Like SBC churches, TFCC will not allow you to be a part of a leadership team unless you are a member. It's all way too much like a "social club".
And what I see lacking is discipleship. -
No problem believer, I don't offend easily. :)
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Saddleback Pastor: Domestic Abuse Not Reason for Divorce
psalm116 »Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:12 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0
If a man is abusing his wife then he'd better re-examine his salvation, because if he has the Holy Spirit living in him, he will be convicted of his sin.
Scripture does not SPECIFICALLY say that phycial abuse is a sin. But, here are a couple that tells us that as Christians we are not capable of CONTINUALLY abusing.
"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." ~Genesis 1:27 This tells us that we are created in the image of God. Do you believe God is an abuser? Does scripture indicate that anywhere? So, once again, if we CHOOSE to continually abuse someone we'd better check if God is really in us or not. AND, since I'm created in the image of God I'm not a doormat either.
Ok, let's look at 2Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." Once again, if you CHOOSE to habitually abuse, you are probably not saved.
Scripture tells us more than once to examine our faith (salvation), as in 2Corinthians 13:5, "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you - unless indeed you fail the test?"
It all points to habitual sin and the question of if the abuser is really saved or not. If the abuser really is saved, like I said, he'll be convicted, repent and turn from his ways, then the marriage can be restored.
But, if the abuser is not convicted, and does not repent, then there is the strong possiblity that he is not saved and therefore divorce is scripturally justified. -
Megs, Amen to "it's a relationship, not a religion"!
I truly believe that God is using you for me to "stay the course" and affirming what the Holy Spirit has been dealing with me about the TFCC affiliated church I attend and will continue to pray and "speak out".
We had 6 families recently leave because of the things I spoke about. I am so mad and saddened at the same time that "man" is squashing the leading of the Holy Spirit instead of following Him.
The problem being with TFCC is that the churches aren't allowed to be individually lead by God. They are too much into "rules" and the "TFCC way".
What's so ironic is that they "preach" all the time that they don't want to be the "traditional" church, but what they are doing is creating their own "traditional" church. Most of the TFCC churches by-laws and beliefs are modeled after the Ellis County church and so the churches are becoming cookie cutter entities instead of individually Holy Spirit led.
Please pray that those in leadership positions will RECEIVE what the Holy Spirit has to say. We can pray all we can, but they have to receive it, and we have no control over that. -
believer, thank you for your comments. I am specifically speaking of TFCC churches. I had mentioned in an earlier post that I know not all cowboy churches are like this. I know of one in Oklahoma and one in Houston, they are both SBC affiliated but not TFCC. It seems to be isolated with TFCC.
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Megs, you said, "Unless you have personally gone to sit in on one of these services..and you feel the HOLY SPIRIT (and not your own fears and judgments) telling you this is not right..then pray about it and speak up when God tells you too."
That's good advice and one that I've already been practicing. -
Megs,
Do you attend a TFCC cowboy church? I am only speaking of TFCC (Texas Fellowship of Cowboy Churches). -
Megs,
I attend a TFCC Cowboy Church, so I know what I'm talking about. The Holy Spirit gets "squashed" because the TOTAL Bible is not being taught and MAN is deciding how people should worship. THAT is not scriptural. The TFCC is trying to accomodate the cowboy culture which is fine, but what is not fine is leaving out scripture and molding it into what they want it to be. Did you know that they have a "cowboy" Bible that only has the New Testament and not the Old?
Megs, Western Heritage is fine, just don't leave out scritpure and make it into what man wants in order to accomodate a culture. -
The writer of this article DID NOT do her homework. I know one of the founders of the TFCC personally and know that he is very judgmental of people raising their hands during worship and saying "Amen" during the service.
If you'll check out the Ellis County Cowboy Church (that the article focuses on) website, http://www.cowboychurchofelliscounty.org/about-us/beliefs/ , you will find this statement:
We let the band do most of the singing.
"While many Christians deeply enjoy an emotionally engaging worship service, many people unfamiliar with church find it confusing and sometimes even stressful. Emotional displays scare them. So, we forego some of these things in order that they can settle down and actually hear what the songs and the message are saying about Jesus Christ."
Jesus DID NOT tell his disciples to set up churches according to the culture of the people. He instructed them to "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel..." The TFCC Cowboy churches are an example of inclusiveness because they cater to those that are accustomed to the western heritage and do not teach/preach the freedom of worshipping God as the Bible teaches.
Don't get me wrong, I love cowboys, but what the TFCC is doing is deceiving and wrong.
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On our own we are little more than bits of stone and glass. Together we are the Body of Christ. Holy Bible: Mosaic is an invitation to experience Christ in His Word and in the responses of his people. Each week, as you reflect on guided Scripture readings aligned with the church seasons, you will receive a wealth of insight from historical and contemporary writings.
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