Miss Calif.: The New Family Values Spokeswoman?

useranon »

Fri May 08, 2009 8:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

I am so torn by this. On the one hand I was so proud of Carrie and still am for standing up for what she believed in at the cost of her crown. I do not support beauty pagents because I personally find them demeaning as a woman. But while I do not like people using the name of God lightly like thanking him when they win an award for a movie or music, I saw the wisdom of many people who said that maybe God had placed her in this situation for a reason. And God knows best.
Now I see that these modeling pictures of her have come when she was under age. I am so torn. I resent being called a hypocrite as a christian if I say I do not like people posing for underwear and compromising pictures and yet support modeling wearing actual clothes that are modest. And I am feeling guilty for feeling this way. This should not bother me so much. But we as christians are judged unfairly every time one of us stumbles and lumped together as hypocrites. During the Ted Haggard time, then the Bristol Palin pregnancy, now Carrie. I understand that none of us is perfect and we are not sinless ourselves. But does anyone else on this board find that when we try to witness or say something about God we are shut down mostly as being hypocritical and being perceived as having different standards of behavior for ourselves as christians and the outside world. I do not think so. I actually think if we are true christians, we are harder on ourselves. Is it just me who finds things like this as obstacles to witness. I am really looking for answers here and I would really appreciate some feedback. This has been bothering me. If it is only me, maybe I am witnessing the wrong way and I need to pray more for guidance. Thank you.

Miss Calif. Says Traditional Marriage Answer 'Cost Me My Crown'

useranon »

Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Kbarnes and Chris70,

I am sorry if I gave the impression that good deeds alone guarantee an acceptance to heaven. I do not believe that.

I believe that when one accepts Jesus as their personal savior, we are saved by his grace and his grace alone. Not because of what we did or who we are or because we are born in a christian family or a christian country. I also believe that just because salvation is freely available one must not abuse it. We must strive to be better people, always knowing we will fail. But that God in his grace forgives us our sins and shortcomings.

While good deeds alone do not guarantee acceptance into heaven, I believe it is nice if we as christians especially young people try to help the poor, volunteer in soup kitchens, do jail ministry, visit hospitals, build habitat for humanity houses etc. My youth group in my native country used to have programs like this and it was a great way for shy, young people to gain confidence and also witness. It makes us grateful for our blessings, even things we take for granted as a house, a job, health, our families and our friends instead of just material blessings.

Miss Calif. Says Traditional Marriage Answer 'Cost Me My Crown'

useranon »

Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:44 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Believer,

In the interest of anonymity, I hope you understand if I am reluctant to name the country I am from. But I can say I come from a south Asian democratic multi-cultural, multi-religious country where christians are a minority.

What gets out is how christians are persecuted. What is not known is the beauty and simplicity of church life, faith and christianity there. And how kind most people of other religions are, how my exposure to other religions has made me appreciate being a christian even more and how people of totally different religious back grounds can have enduring friendships.

I wish I am brave enough to tell you more. I may, when I am ready someday. And with God's grace.

Miss Calif. Says Traditional Marriage Answer 'Cost Me My Crown'

useranon »

Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:11 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Believer,

Is it so wrong of me to not want to fit into labels like liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, lutheran, southern baptist, methodist, pentecostal, evangelical, catholic, pro-choice, pro-life, anti-gay, pro-gay etc and just be christian ?

Being christian to me is simple. Accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior, try to do the best I can to live a good life, if I fail ask for forgiveness, secure in its availability, not because of anything I did or I am, but because of pure grace and finally, hope my actions in earth have qualified me for a place in Heaven when I die.

Is it simple of me to want to be accepted by a church, any church or denomination irrespective of my views. Church is supposed to be everyone, not just people who agree with each other.

Being from where I am, it is pure grace that I was even born into a christian family and saved, when I could have been born into families of other religions. America was supposed to be my spiritual utopia, instead God has made me grow in other ways, unexpected ways as a christian. And if I did not believe it is part of his plan, I would probably be a christian in name only. I am still not the christian I wish I could be.

Believer, thank you for your compassion in listening to me. I am usually not this candid in person and only the anonymity of the internet lets me be so. And if you will, say a prayer please, for people like me to find a church home where God can use our talents more for his Glory.

Miss Calif. Says Traditional Marriage Answer 'Cost Me My Crown'

useranon »

Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:20 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

Believer,

I live in the Bible Belt. And my experiences with cultural issues and the church is based mostly there. I came to America in my 20s when Pres. Clinton was president. To come to America from my native country you had to either have family living here or through work/study means. I came in through the later. I was unmarried and in the first church I visited people were quite surprised of my choice to leave my country for something as trivial as they put it as higher education. In my native country, the competition to come to America is fierce and you are not guaranteed a visa even if you get admission in an American university. Everywhere I went people were so supportive, but people in church were not. You can imagine how I felt.

Long story short, I have found time and time again my choices to limit my family, go to work after children, even something as simple as wearing pants and recycling which is very common in my native country and my subscribing to global warming have put on the wrong side of culture wars. My choices are based on the culture I was raised in. And thus my choices would seem alien to many like I still find the concept of christians and guns used in the same breath. I had a hard time accepting it until I learned the history of America and the important part guns played in it.

Believer, it is my experience that if you do not have a certain view point, dress a certain way, have certain views on hot button issues and vote a certain way you are not considered christian by many people. And you are subtly ostracized until it eats at you. My church in my native country was strong and every time we had communion our priest read from the book of common prayer that since we are taking the body and blood of the Lamb of God, we must do so according to our conscience and ask for forgiveness. I am a big believer in individuals making their own choices and answering before God.

Believer, for me, culture wars are not just abortion or gay marriage. It is also how the issue of birth control, dressing modestly, being a working or non-working mother, home schooling, global warming, political party a person belongs to etc. When pastors tell people whom to vote for and threaten them with not giving communion, does it not change the focus of the church from making people grow spiritually to becoming a culture warrior ?

Bottom line, I pray that all christians irrespective of denomination, theology etc learn to tolerate each other and not let culture wars divide us for if we fight amongst ourselves, we are like the foolish man who built his house upon the sand. I pray for the church to build its house on the Rock of Ages like the wise men who built his house on the rock.

Miss Calif. Says Traditional Marriage Answer 'Cost Me My Crown'

useranon »

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Believer,

I try to make up my own mind without reading the so called liberal media hype. And sorry to say my experience is not what you are saying. I do not know what exactly you mean by evangelical churches. Are you referring to Pentecostal, Southern Baptist, Lutheran, mega churches ? What denomination exactly ? I am confused and therein lies my issue with the focus of the church.

I come from a country where christianity is a minority religion and when you are less than 5% of the population, there is no longer the luxury of denomination division, no protestant or catholic theological divisions. When you are outnumbered by other religions, you quickly learn to be united irrespective of your differences, because it is a matter of survival, not because people are more tolerant.

In America, people have the choice of different denominations and whole different theologies and thus the only thing that seems to unite them is culture war issues like abortion, gay marriage etc. Like I said before, some christians do not consider the mormons christians, but they are willing to receive their money to suit their fights.

In my native country, I went to an episcopalian church, what we called Anglican. It is very ceremonial. But we had a strong church. Youth groups, sunday school, marital counseling, we socialized with our congregation and most of us was saved because of our pastor. In my experience, the denomination of a church or its theology has nothing to do with how strong a congregation is in its faith. We did not fight culture wars, we fought to be strong christians because there was always a distinct possibility you could be persecuted for being christian.

I am yet to see that in an American church. I church hopped for years hoping to capture the feeling of the church of my youth. I did not go for years, nourishing myself and my family through prayer, books, bible reading, pod casts etc. I have now found a small church home after much prayer.

So you see, believer, for someone like me, the church in America can do so much more than what it is doing. You have no threat like my native church and yet christians are somehow defined as culture warriors. And it makes me so sad.

Sorry if I came across as offensive. I did not mean to, English is not my first language and I sometimes fail to get my point across graciously.

Miss Calif. Says Traditional Marriage Answer 'Cost Me My Crown'

useranon »

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Believer,

Do you really believe the church has put in the same effort to fortify the institution of marriage as they have fighting culture wars ? In my opinion, no. Almost every church has a wedding coordinator onsite to help a couple plan a wedding and help them with flowers, music, the order of service, processional etc. But how many of them insist that the couple marrying there have even an informal session with the pastor of the church about premarital counseling even if the couple are not members ? Would it be so wrong to insist on at least one session of marriage counseling as part of hiring a church ? Or are churches afraid that this will turn off people and they will lose revenue ? These churches seem to more concerned with the success of the wedding than the marriage. How many couples turn to churches for marital counseling ? People seem to turn to therapists than clergy for counsel.
The California prop 8 or the gay marriage vote was defeated in large part because the mormon church gave millions of dollars for advertising to see that it failed. Yet many here say mormons are not christians. I am not an American by birth, so I do not know about Mormons, but do you not see a hypocrisy here ?
So too abortion. I have heard people say a down's baby should not be aborted, but put in foster care or put up for adoption. Knowing what people know about the foster care system, do people not care ?
I come from a country where people live on less than $2 a day and some of the richest people in the world live too. I have seen poor women with 6 or 7 children use abortion as a means of birth control. While I would hesitate to use it in my personal life, how can I condemn such a person ?
Life is not only black and white. It is grey too. And I believe culture wars are fought in the grey areas. We as christians can win people over by setting an example of tolerance, kindness, inclusiveness and speaking to them and not at them. We will not change people's minds by preaching to them or quoting scripture. Only God can change people. The best we can do is pray and see that God Almighty gives us the grace to influence people. And this is where the American church and ministries which are richer and more powerful than any I know on this earth can play an important part. And by paying the same attention to the divorce rate and people living out of wedlock as they are to gay marriage, they are doing more to save the institution of marriage for future generations.

Miss Calif. Says Traditional Marriage Answer 'Cost Me My Crown'

useranon »

Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:07 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

I just googled to see if I can get an audio or a transcript of Ms.California's interview with Billy Bush and was shocked to see that she says in the same interview that her own sister who is in the military no less is a gay rights activist. Ms. California also said her sister supported her even though she does not agree with her views.
If this is true, how interesting is it that two people who grew up under the same roof have totally opposite views. And what I found I liked most about it is how supportive they were of each other each though they had different views. Is it simplistic of me to wish all christians could be at least respectful of each other even if they have divergent views when it comes to culture wars ?

Miss Calif. Says Traditional Marriage Answer 'Cost Me My Crown'

useranon »

Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:47 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

While I applaud Ms.California for her honesty I have to ask since when did parading half naked on a stage constitute 'being a witness'. Many people will say we need to have a 'christian' representative in these type of contests for exactly the reason this question was asked and my response to that is we need not lower our standards to get more souls or witness. This is almost like the winners of movie and music awards first taking the time to 'thank the Lord for making this award possible for them' etc . Yeah right, the Almighty God has nothing else to do but to make sure you got your award by taking time off healing the sick, keeping us safe etc.
While I do not deny that these people mean well, since when is witnessing or gathering souls dependent on celebrity. Or is it only in America ? Why is Christianity in America defined more by culture wars than winning souls unlike so many countries around the world ? Are the new missionaries, women who enter beauty contests/scholarships or whatever like Ms.USA and movie and music stars who 'give a shout' out to God when they win something.
As for gay 'marriage', the thing I find most ironic in this whole thing is, while the number of people who could have 'opposite marriage' as Ms.California put forth in her own charming way is declining due to living together without marriage and the divorce rate spirals out of control even among christians, what is the church doing to make sure the institution of marriage is still relevant or will be to future generations of people who can legally get married ??

Thank God for Every Day He Gives You

useranon »

Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

I hope you read this Dr. Graham. In any case, in many ways, you are my spiritual grandfather. Through you several people from different countries came to know the Lord. My mother was one of them, saved in one of the campaigns you had in in my native country. Consequently, she was the one who lead me to the Lord.
In many ways, you have been the most important American representative to the world at large, more than even presidents. You have been a blessing and a beacon to so many people in so many corners of the world. You are more beloved than you ever know by so many people of, so many colors, in different corners of the globe who have never met you. God bless dear sir, in the twilight of your life with good health and all His blessings for your great life in the service of the Lord. I hope I have the grace of the Lord to be his instrument at least 1% of what you have been used. Thank you.

Americans' Religiosity Not Impacted by Recession

useranon »

Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:56 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

I would not take church attendance as a measure of how people are turning to God during times of crisis. Nor should it be. Praying, individual meditation etc are the actual measures. People can turn and do turn to God especially in times of crisis.
But as for going to church, finding a church one is comfortable in may be daunting. A person may not agree with the church doctrine, may not be comfortable with politics being preached especially if one's political beliefs are different. The church has long ceased to be just a place of worship anymore. It has become either a non-personal worship experience due to huge congregations in the thousands or has become a place where politics and power seem to more important than actual worship. Where culture wars seem more important than just worshipping the Lord.
I was one of those people who church hopped for all the above reasons. For several years I had no church because I was tired of doing so. I never stopped praying, reading the bible, praying with my family or meditating on the word of God through books and podcasts of messages. The internet has a lot of resources and a family can really take advantage of it. We had more of an intimate experience and we grew as a family because of it. I nourished myself and my family thus until we found a church we were comfortable in. Small, intimate, home visits, actual sermons, no powerpoints, where we knew the families and socialized with them, not just nod to them on Sundays like in my native country.
I am sure there are many who are turning more towards God both individually and as families during these perilous times. But if going to church is a measure of that, then there may not be an accurate read on that because worshipping God and turning to Him can be done anywhere, in any place, any time. Not just in church.

Teen Birth Rate Up Again; Fuels Sex Ed Debate

useranon »

Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I come from a conservative non-christian country. We do not have sex education in schools. But most of us were aware of everything due to discussing with friends, romance novels and foreign movies. But we do not have teen pregnancies because there are people who watch used to watch us like hawks. Extended family like grandparents, neighbors who would tell our parents if boys would come home when they were not at home, movie theatre owners who threw out underaged couples before calling their school/college etc.
I come from a culture that does not have promise rings or anything, but most of my friends and myself , hindus, muslims and christians who were unmarried when we came to America waited until marriage even though we had chances to go "astray". The thing that saved us was our non-dating conservative culture irrespective of our religion. The disappointment in our parents eyes if they found out what we were doing and their prayers.
In a society were dating is common and teenagers are thrown alone constantly, a culture of films and music videos with explicit images why should this be a surprise.

Arkansas Lawmaker to Reintroduce Guns in Churches Bill

useranon »

Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I meant to say in my previous post, where christians are persecuted, but they are also prosecuted. Thanks.

Arkansas Lawmaker to Reintroduce Guns in Churches Bill

useranon »

Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

I may get pounded for this, but this needs to be said. Protect your homes with guns, protect your cars with guns, have a gun in every room if it makes you feel safer. Guns save lives when used as a protection force in airports, on an airplane etc when they are properly handled. But the question is how far is too far ?
I come from a non-christian country. One of the first culture shocks was the prolifferation of guns in a christiian country and among christians. I was told this was a cultural thing and in the days of old people needed guns to defend property and themselves and also because of hunting.
I come from a country where christians are prosecuted. Where churches can be burned with people sitting inside them. I have never seen people armed because there is a chance they may be attacked. They put their trust in the LORD where it belongs.
Many places of business like restaurants, bars, most stores forbid guns. So why churches ? bad things happen everywhere. And to be brutally honest, these church shootings are not as bad as the violence in Israel and other places. I am not aware of Israelis arming themselves when they go to worship.
Being a christian is not only anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage etc. These are just cultural wars. It is also having the faith to PUT your trust in the Lord especially when you go to worsip him in his sanctuary. We can arm ourselves to the teeth, but survival and protection comes from HIM alone as the psalmist says. To believe otherwise is foolish. And yes, every christian is called to be a martyr and it can happen anywhere, not just in third world mission fields, but suburbia USA.

Some Christians Denounce Carbon Fast for Lent

useranon »

Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Well put Nukaleu

Doing less damage to the environment is common sense. Use less, consume less, reuse things, think before throwing out food mindlessly etc are not "environmentalism". These are ways to live simply. God's creation is here for all of us to enjoy, nature and its bounty. But we are stewards of it, for future generations until the Lord comes back, not owners. We have but a short time on this earth. Let us not mess it up so bad that our children will pay for our mistakes. Let us atleast leave it as good as we found it.
So, while I do not agree with the "carbon fast" general principles of using God's creation responsibly is a good thing in our every day lives.

Boom-Years Borrowing Hits Churches

useranon »

Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:51 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

I would be a hypocrite if I did not confess I love looking at the churches of old especially in Europe and Asia. In my native country some tiny villages and most cities have majestic, soaring cathedrals built by some long ago Europeans with beautiful stained glass windows and even sometimes a pipe organ. For me, a beautiful church, good music especially a pipe organ to sing beautiful hymns is part of the beauty of the whole worship experience, like in my childhood days. I have also worshipped in churches with simple thatch roofs, with a dirt floor, no music except people clapping hands in time to the words and felt the same joy as I did in the most beautiful church. But what has endured until today in my mind was the beautiful sermons, a great pastor who helped me and so many young people on the path to Christ, the relationships I formed there and most importantly my relationship with the Lord Jesus.
My church now is small and simple. We do not sing to a pipe organ, but what I still have is a great pastor, good relationships with my fellow congregants and most importantly, my relationship wit the Lord. I had to search to find a church I was comfortable going to. Where home visits were emphasized, where people in the congregation still knew each other and a great sermon was preached, simple and from the heart, not using power point slides.
We do not need to go into debt to build a great building beautiful as they are. Some of the greatest conversions and sermons were preached under simple tents by great preachers. We need to come back to the idea that simple is not always bad and that being prosperous does not mean we need to go into massive debt to achieve that both, in the church and every day lives.

Slain Pastor's Wife: 'I Refuse to Let Satan Win'

useranon »

Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

montrance,
Even though I understand where you are coming from it is not the first time I have seen or heard of courage and grace under extremely unusual circumstances. People still speak of Jackie Kennedy's strength and grace after she had a horrific experience of having her husband killed in front of her and being the mom of two small children. She is even said to have had a small birthday party for JFK jr on the day of his dad's funeral. I have seen an entire nation go about its business defiantly without shutting down business doors or schools, peacefully mourning the dead and tending the injured , hanging flags as a sign of patriotism on 9/11 and not rioting or needing military intervention to keep the peace in the country as a testament that their way of life will go on.
Some people survive horrific personal situations like abuse and go on to lead healthy, productive lives while some become abusers themselves. I am no expert on human psychology, but I know that faith in God plays a big part in helping a person face horrific circumstances.
There is no "right" way to grieve. Just because Cyndy does not seem to break down in public and eulogizes her husband and stands up for what he and she believed in does not mean her grief or her sense of loss is any less than someone who screams and throws themselves at the casket of their slain husband. She is also the mom of two little girls and she probably feels scared at the thought of raising them alone. But her actions so far are consistent with someone who has surrendered their entire life, good or bad to God. It is very hard to understand in this day and age of mood altering prescription drugs, alcoholism or addiction as a genetic disease etc. While all these make perfect sense in our society, I would also like to think that there is a place for old fashioned faith and trust in God's will like Cindy WInters without it being scoffed at or looked upon suspiciously.

Slain Pastor's Wife: 'I Refuse to Let Satan Win'

useranon »

Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:07 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 2

What a person is made of truly comes out in the worst of circumstances. To stand and eulogize her husband at possibly the worst time in her life and to do it so bravely, eloquently and with so much faith in the Lord in a situation where most others would be beaten down and doubt the Lord shows great courage and conviction.
Cindy Winters, you humble me. Your strength and grace in such a terrible moment and above all your christian faith is a shining example. You have shown that being a christian is not just talking the talk, but walking the walk, however difficult it may be. May God bless you and your family tremendously. My family and my prayers are with you.

Youth Pastors Encouraged to Learn Self-Defense

useranon »

Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

KFM-NYC,
I do believe in and support everyone's right to defense and self-defense. I also know that while equipping ourselves with guns, learning self-defense and protecting our homes by installing alarms, closing doors and following commom sense rules of survival, it will not ultimately save us.
Our survival is in the hands of the Almighty God be it on a street or on a mission field.

Egyptian Christian Burned Alive; Father Murdered Also

useranon »

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:54 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

"Blessed are they that are persecuted, for they shall obtain mercy". May the grace of God with people suffering in His name. And may the justice of the Lord take his vengence on all those who hurt his people.