"First let me say that I do agree with that. Probably some are listening who would say, "Whoa. I don't think that was God's problem. I think that was their problem!" This question assumes that God did some preventing. But that's true. It says their minds were blinded. They were kept from seeing for a season (Luke 18:33-34; 24:16)" Luk 18:31 And He took the Twelve and said to them, Behold, we g...more

"First let me say that I do agree with that. Probably some are listening who would say, "Whoa. I don't think that was God's problem. I think that was their problem!" This question assumes that God did some preventing. But that's true. It says their minds were blinded. They were kept from seeing for a season (Luke 18:33-34; 24:16)"

Luk 18:31 And He took the Twelve and said to them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.
Luk 18:32 For He will be delivered to the nations and will be mocked and insulted and spat on.
Luk 18:33 And they will scourge Him and put Him to death, and the third day He will rise again.
Luk 18:34 And they did not understand any of these things. And this saying was hidden from them, nor did they know the things which were spoken.

It is interesting that Christ reveals himself in verse 31, and then the writer suggests that these things were kept hidden from the Apostles in verse 34. We know that once Christ was taken into custody to fulfill the prophecies mentioned in verses 32 and 33, the Apostles did not stay together. They ran in fear. So then had the Apostles truly understood verses 32 and 33 ahead of time, it is likely that the Apostles would not have followed Christ into Jerusalem.

Luk 24:14 And they talked to each other of all these things which had happened.
Luk 24:15 And while they talked and reasoned, it happened that Jesus Himself drew near and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were held so that they could not know Him.
Luk 24:17 And He said to them, What words are these that you have with one another as you walk, and are so sad?
Luk 24:18 And one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answered and said to Him, Are you only a stranger in Jerusalem and have not known the things which have occurred there in these days?

It seems strange that the two would not have at least recognized the physical appearence of Christ. But it seems that Christ himself said that we are more blessed in believing without having seen him than to have seen him. For Christ always directed our eyes towards the Father. The truth has to be revealed through the Holy Spirit, not the physical appearence. For God is a Spirit.less

"They don't hesitate to point to studies showing that Christians aren't that much better at marriage and family than their non-religious neighbors. Fair enough, they have a point. If we're going to lead the fight to preserve traditional marriage, we need to start by creating a place where there is no question of its being "obsolete." That is, our homes and our churches." Thank you Mr. Colson. A...more

"They don't hesitate to point to studies showing that Christians aren't that much better at marriage and family than their non-religious neighbors. Fair enough, they have a point. If we're going to lead the fight to preserve traditional marriage, we need to start by creating a place where there is no question of its being "obsolete." That is, our homes and our churches."

Thank you Mr. Colson. A very good point indeed.

And it could be added that if the church does not wish to show the willingness to discipline its "higher-ranking" leadership for sexual misconduct, then why should any discipline be encouraged at home.


Job 36:9 then He shows them their work, and their sins, that they have behaved themselves proudly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ears to teaching, and commands that they return from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve Him, they shall spend their days in blessedness, and their years in pleasures.less

First we have this.... "The noncredit course was cleared by LCC officials and had been posted for registration on Dec. 1." Then we have this..... "LCC officials, meanwhile, claim that their decision to cancel the class was "not in response to any outside group" but to "carefully consider" how to best handle the religious topic." It seems that LCC officials were involved in both decisions. ...more

First we have this....
"The noncredit course was cleared by LCC officials and had been posted for registration on Dec. 1."

Then we have this.....
"LCC officials, meanwhile, claim that their decision to cancel the class was "not in response to any outside group" but to "carefully consider" how to best handle the religious topic."

It seems that LCC officials were involved in both decisions. Perhaps they didn't carefully consider things the first time.

Nonetheless, there are many college courses taught throughout the country which include discussions about Christianity and history. And instructors do express unqualified biases against the Christian faith during these courses.

It is hoped that the students have the intelligence to walk away with a better understanding of the topic, a passing grade, and ultimately let their hearts be guided by a much greater authority than the one standing in the front of the classroom.

Deu 4:33 Did people ever hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire as you have heard and live?
Deu 4:34 Or has God gone forth to take a nation for Himself from the midst of a nation, by trials, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that Jehovah your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
Deu 4:35 It was shown to you so that you might know that Jehovah is God, and no one else beside Him.
Deu 4:36 He made you hear His voice out of Heaven so that He might teach you. And He showed you His great fire upon earth. And you heard His words out of the midst of the fire.less

lpepperw, good catch. It does not seem clear who the original author of the article is. But clearly Sarah Palin is not a hard-lined Republican. andyyax, you are correct. There is truly more to biblical politics than just abortion and homosexuality. There are many other sexual sins, such as fornication and adultery, that are being excused especially amongst Christians leaders. And this is eve...more

lpepperw, good catch. It does not seem clear who the original author of the article is. But clearly Sarah Palin is not a hard-lined Republican.

andyyax, you are correct. There is truly more to biblical politics than just abortion and homosexuality. There are many other sexual sins, such as fornication and adultery, that are being excused especially amongst Christians leaders.

And this is even more damaging to the Body of Christ because we are afraid to judge sin because we are afraid of judging God's anointed. The reality is the we are judging sin and correcting God's anointed.less

shadow_man You have referenced the following text....using the King James version 1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom...more

shadow_man
You have referenced the following text....using the King James version
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Looking at verse 9, the English word effeminate replaced the Greek word Malakos. This describes something that is soft, like fine clothing. But there is also a figurative usage for this word. The figurative reference is to a calamite which describes a relationship between a young man and older man.

One of the two would be the authority figure as the male, and the other would be the more submissive (soft) as the female.

The English phrasing "abusers of themselves with mankind" replaces the Greek word arsenokoytace. This Greek word is actually a combination of two other Greek words arsane and koytay. These words combined describe a sexual relationship between two men. But there is emphasis on the stronger "man" role and a relationship that is more "co-habitation" in nature.

We also see in verse 9 that the Apostle Paul makes a specific reference to idolators. This reference to idolaters does not define the nature of the entire text, but instead tells us that these sexual actions are unfavorable whether done in rituals to other gods (images), or for self-gratification/self-pleasure.less

shadow_man You have commented..... Paul then told the Roman Christians that they were not to judge others. To judge others is to condemn yourself (Romans 2:1). Christians are to love others out of their brokenness and into the healing wholeness that is found in Jesus Christ Please consider the following in comparison (not contrast) to what the Apostle Paul is saying.... Mat 18:15 But if you...more

shadow_man
You have commented.....
Paul then told the Roman Christians that they were not to judge others. To judge others is to condemn yourself (Romans 2:1). Christians are to love others out of their brokenness and into the healing wholeness that is found in Jesus Christ

Please consider the following in comparison (not contrast) to what the Apostle Paul is saying....
Mat 18:15 But if your brother shall trespass against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear you, take one or two more with you, so that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he neglects to hear the church, let him be to you as a heathen and a tax-collector.

You also commented....
Paul emphasized that IDOLATRY (not homosexuality) was the evil which resulted in temple prostitution, sadomasochism, and lack of regard for others.

1Co 11:14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if man has long hair, it is a shame to him?
1Co 11:15 But if a woman should have long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her in place of a veil.
Gal 2:15 We Jews by nature, and not sinners of the nations,

Using this text alone, which you have referenced, please explain how the Apostle Paul is addressing Idol worship.

It is in God's natural design of mankind that a woman's outward beauty is in the hair on her head.
And the Apostle Paul was trying to explain to the believing Jews that they cannot live like unbelieving Gentiles and expect to be witnesses for Christ only because they are Jews.less

shadow_man, please explain your interpretation of the text found in Romans chapter 1, especially verses 26 and 27. Neither Molech nor any form of sacrificial ritual is mentioned in this text.

shadow_man, my comments focus on the entire text from Leviticus chapter 18. In your post you only mention verse 22. As commented previously, the relationship in verse 22 is not the only relationship mentioned in chapter 18. Please explain how so-called fertility rituals apply to the other relationships discussed in this chapter. Especially verse 20. And, likewise, if we consider your referen...more

shadow_man, my comments focus on the entire text from Leviticus chapter 18. In your post you only mention verse 22.

As commented previously, the relationship in verse 22 is not the only relationship mentioned in chapter 18. Please explain how so-called fertility rituals apply to the other relationships discussed in this chapter. Especially verse 20.

And, likewise, if we consider your reference to the text in Leviticus chapter 20, you only mention verse 13. Please explain how so-called fertility rituals apply to the other relationships discussed in this chapter. Especially verse 10.less

andyyax You have made two interesting comments.... One you say "The early Church seemed to not be involved in politics at all. They were part of a government much worse than any current western government" We need to remember that those who were the leaders of the early church were given a commission to preach the Gospel. We should note that the Bible does not specify the career status of th...more

andyyax
You have made two interesting comments....
One you say "The early Church seemed to not be involved in politics at all. They were part of a government much worse than any current western government"

We need to remember that those who were the leaders of the early church were given a commission to preach the Gospel. We should note that the Bible does not specify the career status of the hundreds of souls that entered the church at that time.

In other words, we will never know how many of the people that came to know Christ were active in politics and carried their new found faith into their work.

And also consider that the Apostle Paul was given a directive from God to go before Caesar as a witness for Christ. And he was not alone.

You also commented..."Ever since I have been here (6 years now) I have learned that some of my political views don't fit in with the conservative right and therefore should never be talked about."

Should never be talked about? Not sure where you have developed this thinking. If Americans have learned anything, it is that Political Correctness and Tolerance can be dangerous when used to change moral policy.


Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.less

shadow_man You have commented.... "wrhalver: Lol, come on bro. That's way too obvious. You need lessons on trolling ^_^ You are trying to bring out irrelevant topics." Irrelevant? Obvious? Trolling? No attempt at any of these. But there is an attempt at correlation. In Leviticus chapter 18, a text you made reference to, there are a variety of sexual relationships described. And it seems cl...more

shadow_man
You have commented....
"wrhalver: Lol, come on bro. That's way too obvious. You need lessons on trolling ^_^ You are trying to bring out irrelevant topics."

Irrelevant? Obvious? Trolling? No attempt at any of these. But there is an attempt at correlation.

In Leviticus chapter 18, a text you made reference to, there are a variety of sexual relationships described. And it seems clear in verse 27 that all of them are abominations.

In the context of this chapter, if one can find justification for one of the forms then justification also applies to the others just the same.

You have also suggested that the use of the term Molech in verse 21 means that all of these forms of sin would be done in the context of idolatry. But verse 21 does not suggest that it is considered as righteousness to pass seed through the fire of Jehovah.less

"I could go on and on; however, I am finally coming to the conclusion that the church is going to be fine if she will continue to focus on Jesus, preaching His Word, doing ministry in power of Holy Spirit, praying like crazy, refusing to be boring, continuing to take huge steps of faith and practicing extreme generosity!" It seems to me that Perry Noble is trying to describe a church that truly...more

"I could go on and on; however, I am finally coming to the conclusion that the church is going to be fine if she will continue to focus on Jesus, preaching His Word, doing ministry in power of Holy Spirit, praying like crazy, refusing to be boring, continuing to take huge steps of faith and practicing extreme generosity!"

It seems to me that Perry Noble is trying to describe a church that truly looks and acts peculiar to the rest of the world. Good start.

Col 3:8 But now also put off all these things: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, shameful speech out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, having put off the old man with his deeds
Col 3:10 and having put on the new, having been renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
Col 3:11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, slave or freeman, but Christ is all things in all.less

"According to internal Chase documents, the bank rationalized the order stating, “We don’t want to lose somebody’s business because of seasonal decorations,” adding that they were trying to “ensure that everyone who visits our branches is made to feel completely welcome and comfortable.” It is assumed that "losing somebody's business" means that there are larger corporations banking...more

"According to internal Chase documents, the bank rationalized the order stating, “We don’t want to lose somebody’s business because of seasonal decorations,” adding that they were trying to “ensure that everyone who visits our branches is made to feel completely welcome and comfortable.”

It is assumed that "losing somebody's business" means that there are larger corporations banking with Chase that may have expressed "concern" over these kinds of decorations.

Nevertheless, thanks to the AFA for staying on top of these things.

And remember the reason for the season.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bear a son, and you shall call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this happened so that might be fulfilled that which was spoken of the LORD by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive in her womb, and will bear a son. And they will call His name Emmanuel," which being interpreted is, God with us.less

johnzon, good one!

ketch22, this is where the church becomes conflicted with "judge not lest you be judged" and "touch not my anointed". Church leaders need to be the examples of listening to and obeying the Holy Spirit. Sin is not a popularity contest.

shadow_man, it seems that you are also suggesting that you have proven that sexual relations between humans and animals is also acceptable if it is not being done to serve idolatry. This is described in the same Leviticus context you presented earlier.

shadow_man, based on the verses you provided in Leviticus, the use of the word abomination is what we are focused on. I'm not sure what other words you are considering. Please explain further. Also, it seems that you are suggesting that there is a difference between same gender sexual relations for purposes of serving idolatry, and same gender sexual relations for purposes of serving the true l...more

shadow_man, based on the verses you provided in Leviticus, the use of the word abomination is what we are focused on. I'm not sure what other words you are considering. Please explain further.

Also, it seems that you are suggesting that there is a difference between same gender sexual relations for purposes of serving idolatry, and same gender sexual relations for purposes of serving the true living God.

So then we would need to consider that there is no account in scripture of a marriage between the same genders. And we find that the Apostles discuss the perversion of man with man and woman with woman.less

shadow_man, the Hebrew word toebah comes from the Hebrew word taab, which comes from the Hebrew word tachton, which comes from the Hebrew word tachath, which comes from the Hebrew root word toach meaning to depress or humble. If we look at the meanings of each form of the word from toach to toebah, there is the intent of showing that something is being done that is considered the lowest act in ...more

shadow_man, the Hebrew word toebah comes from the Hebrew word taab, which comes from the Hebrew word tachton, which comes from the Hebrew word tachath, which comes from the Hebrew root word toach meaning to depress or humble.

If we look at the meanings of each form of the word from toach to toebah, there is the intent of showing that something is being done that is considered the lowest act in moral Israeli society. It is interesting to note that adultery and fornication, while also being sexual sins, are not given this same moral value.

And there is a very clear reason for this. A mortal soul cannot be created in this world without the interaction of a male and female.less

johnzon, the Muslim "struggles" we see today follow a similiar pattern to the Christian wars you refer to. Initially, the basis of these struggles are of faith, not nationality. But they have become mixed with non-Theocratic politics. The leadership changes in both Iraq and Iran are examples of spiritual leadership mixing with world politics in undesired ways. And this is the problem with Mu...more

johnzon, the Muslim "struggles" we see today follow a similiar pattern to the Christian wars you refer to. Initially, the basis of these struggles are of faith, not nationality. But they have become mixed with non-Theocratic politics.

The leadership changes in both Iraq and Iran are examples of spiritual leadership mixing with world politics in undesired ways.

And this is the problem with Muslim groups today just as it became with the Christian wars. And if the present day Muslims continue to gain the upperhand in their influence on the political world, then you will likely see a similiar struggle re-ignited amongst the Christians in opposition to the Muslims.

Perhaps history repeating itself.less

Johnzon, there is only one post from Jonah related to this article. Jonah is making reference to the bloodshed that is occurring between the various faiths in Iraq. It is unfortunate that the various Muslim groups in Iraq have taken advantage of the political vacuum created by the loss of Saddam Hussein. And this internal Muslim struggle has spilled over to the Christians in Iraq. And we sho...more

Johnzon, there is only one post from Jonah related to this article. Jonah is making reference to the bloodshed that is occurring between the various faiths in Iraq.

It is unfortunate that the various Muslim groups in Iraq have taken advantage of the political vacuum created by the loss of Saddam Hussein. And this internal Muslim struggle has spilled over to the Christians in Iraq.

And we should note that this internal religious struggle within the Muslim community is not isolated to Iraq.less

ketch22, your same reasoning applies to non-televangelism as well. Before Radio or Television, many stood behind the pulpit for fame and money, and deceived many. And many still do. The larger broadcast mediums only put the problem before a much larger audience. But we should also remember that the Body of Christ is not ignorant. Christ warned that these things would happen, and to be respon...more

ketch22, your same reasoning applies to non-televangelism as well.

Before Radio or Television, many stood behind the pulpit for fame and money, and deceived many. And many still do. The larger broadcast mediums only put the problem before a much larger audience.

But we should also remember that the Body of Christ is not ignorant. Christ warned that these things would happen, and to be responsible in watching out for them.

If we can take care of our own, without the false sense of feeling judgemental, then all would see that while sin is judged the sinner is only being corrected.less