The largest Lutheran body in the nation caused a stir Saturday after controversially deciding not to punish homosexual clergy who are in sexual relationships.
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(Photo: AP Images / Charles Rex Arbogast)Voting members attending the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 2007 Churchwide Assembly in Chicago, Thursday, Aug. 9, 2007, pray during debate on whether to allow non-celibate gays to be ordained. A national assembly of Evangelical Lutherans urged its bishops Saturday, Aug. 11, 2007 to refrain from defrocking gay and lesbian ministers who violate a celibacy rule, but rejected measures that would have permitted ordaining gays churchwide.
At its annual assembly, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) passed by a vote of 538-431 a resolution urging bishops to refrain from disciplining pastors who are in “faithful committed same-gender relationships”.
A day earlier, attendees voted down a measure that would have ended a ban on non-celibate gay clergy. Saturday’s vote, however, means those who violate that policy can no longer be tried or punished.
“The Church ... has just said 'Do not do punishments'. That is huge,” commented Phil Soucy, spokesman for Lutherans Concerned, a gay-lesbian rights group within ELCA.
The 4.8-million member church body had previously allowed gays to serve as pastors, but only under the condition that they abstained from any sexual relations.
Since ELCA was founded in 1988 by the merging of three churches, the denomination has ordered three pastors in gay relationships to be removed from their ministries.
The gay clergy issue has become an increasingly volatile subject among a number of Christian denominations – most notably the 77-million-member worldwide Anglican Communion, which is on the verge of schism as it debates the controversial issue.
The latest announcement from ELCA has been met with strong disapproval from conservatives within the Christian community who follow the historic Christian teachings, which declares homosexuality a sin according to Scripture.
The Rev. Mark Chavez, leader of Lutheran CORE, a group that says non-celibate gays should not serve as pastors, called the decision “tragic.”
“This decision will be an excuse for bishops to disobey ELCA policy,” he said. “This decision does not reflect the will of the people, but of bishops and clergy who disregard God’s word.”
In addition to urging bishops against disciplining, the Lutheran conference also instructed a committee that is developing a social statement on sexuality to further investigate the issue. The committee is scheduled to release its report in 2009.
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Saints of God, we should not be surprised by the decline of moral fortitude and sound reasoning in some our churches today. Have we not been forewarned in 2Timothy 3:1-5 –
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those who that are good, Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Listen to the words of Jesus in Revelation 22:13-17 –
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
We all need to repent and respond to the following invitation:
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The truth is we all need to be in church but some of us have no place in the clergy. (Including myself Straight married) The bible clearly states that homosexulaity is wrong. It also says that those of you who are in the clergy have certain responsabilities and the biggest is that you should live as the word of God says that you should live. Leviticus 20:13, says that homosexuality is wrong. In 2 Timothy 4:2 says the time will come when false profits will rise and preach false doctorine because of their own desires. Matthew 19:18 says you shall not bear false witness. Romans 1:26-29 says that homosexuality is wrong, for those of you who will say we live by the new testiment. 1 Corinthians 9:14 says those who preach the word should live from the gospel! Now you can't really fight the word of God it's there read it for yourself!
Look, God's Word says What are abominations. God's word tells what He made as Holy. The Office of clergy:Priests,Elders,Deacons, all have requirements, and responsibilities. Someone throwing fresh,hot, Dung in your priceless Silver Would make a lot of people upset. God killed people who desecrated What he set aside as Holy. To put an adulterer in Office would bring the congregation into a frenzy. To put an actier incharge of the churches nursery would cause outrage. The embezzeler that would make Judas Iscarot look like a chior boy discovered in the role of treasury officer would make some people very mad, plus call for the resignation of those who hired the person and willingly let these people into the mentioned office. It is more an offense to put gays in clergy and ESPECIALLY Priest!!! The Counsel of Gays Needs to be Tossed out on it's rear!! The people who voted for allowing gays needs to be kicked out of church as well. This isn't merely an intollerance, this is the reverence and respect to ffice God established, plus the Curse God will have on those who lead the flock astray, or create stumbling blocks for the sheep. If it seems hard, it's just to bad. God created Hell initially for Lucier and the angels which followed. Set as the new home for those who rebell against God.
Those who know God's word, and continue in their sin, un repepntant and unwilling to change will have a place in Hell too. Like it says in the New Testament, "You are a liar, and the truth is not in you." "Many come, but few are Called." "Narrow is the gate into Heaven." The people still have a chance to repent, and to turn from evil. If they mean it, and break away, then Jesus will help them. So, atleast God's Grace works. But Turn now while you have breath, for tomorrow is not guaranteed to you.
Ok, perhaps I have fallen into a parallel dimension...
In my universe, the Bible has a savior known as Jesus the Christ. In his teachings in my universe, He tells people to turn from their sinful way. To repent, "Go, and sin no more"
He had apostles in my universe. They told that "ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD" "THE PENALTY OF SIN IS DEATH." To Believe Jesus as Lord and Savior. That almost a dozen things are considered abominations to God, among them is included Homosexuality. In my universe, the Bible has an Old Testament as well as the New Testament. Together they tell The "rules of conduct" as well as illustrate what happens when people turn from depending on Him. Among these things are rules and qualifications for the office of clergy located in the book of Leviticus. Anyone who doesn't fit the bill, doesn't become clergy. The lie perpetuated in the last 12 to 16 years is that You are saved as you are, and you just cling to Jesus. Well, Satan did a good job at adding just enough truth in the sentence to entice you. That is why you have to study the Bible, and any doctrine has to be measured up to God's word.
In my universe, Jesus used a man whose name was Saul, Jesus renamed him Paul, and there was another outspoken Leader named Peter, an impulsive, but faithful follower of Jesus. They wrote the guidelines to follow for developing the Christian faith. I don't know what these people who allow Gays in clerical positions-worse yet as Pastor. They said any who introduce any message, be they Apostle, or angel, or what manner of man, to use God's word as a standard to compare it to, if it contradicts, then you toss it and who delivered the message. We are to develop a relationship with God.Jesus told us what God expects, that's why we were to turn from our old life, and cling to the truths of Christ. The office of Pastor and Elders and Deacons are HOLY positions. God killed a man who brought the wrong offering and incense into the Holy of Holies portion of the Temple. Those who cling to being an Adulterer,Thief,Liar,Sorcerer,Murderer,Homosexual,Angry person,etc, are all abominations to God. Such, is also viewed as wrong. We already had an Adulterer and Liar in the White house in Bill Clinton, The office of authority is to be revered, as the Bible from my Universe says the sanctuary of God is to be approached in reverence. Maybe these are omitted in this universe, but When God sets aside something as Holy- and a person discraces that position they are to be thrown out of office. and a person who says "I'm a Christian." and yet continues in doing those sins, and doesn't turn from it is as Jesus the Christ in My Universe says "You are a liar, and the Truth is not in you." "Go away, for I never knew you."
<Jesus did not have to teach about homosexuality, it was not existent among his disciples. It crept into the church, probably due to lack of warning and teaching, so the good old Paul made a few things clear after the church grew. >
Incorrect, Jesus confined sexual relations to a male and female relationship.
When the Pharisees questioned Jesus about divorce, Jesus took the time to DEFINE marriage.
"Jesus replied. "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.''For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." Mark 10:5-8
All of us know that according to Scripture, sexual activity is only considered moral within the confines of Marriage. Jesus took the time to specify what Gender was to go with what other Gender within marrage.
Therefore, Jesus eliminated the possibility of Homosexuality to be acceptable in a sexual relationship.
Another example of this would be if I said:
If you want to play in the NBA you have to use basketballs.
In my statement, while I didnt specifically exclude footballs, we can easily and contextually conclude that I am allowing only the inclusion of basketballs in the NBA.
Jesus limited Marriage to a male and female in this fashion.
jimmywitz,
Jesus didn't talk extensively about every issue of morality. He didn't talk about child rape, canablism, beastiality, drunkeness, or many other things that the bible as a whole calls "sin" and "abominations." Surely you are not saying that poverty, wars and sickness are important but moral conduct is not. Bigger question is did Jesus uphold the standard of sexual morality. The answer is yes. Infact he was much stricter in his interpretation of sexual morality. It is false to believe that jesus cares about social issues but not social morality. Jesus loves sinners enough to confront them with thier sin. jesus loves sinners enough to warn them that thier behavior has eternal consequences. Letting homosexuals think that everything is ok is not loving. On judgement day, its not the christians who send homosexuals (and all other unrepentant people) to hell, it is Jesus himself( Rev 22:15). So, yeah, i think he cares.
Whose words, ah, the apostle Paul's: "Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
Actually, not only homosexuals are warned.
Jesus did not have to teach about homosexuality, it was not existent among his disciples. It crept into the church, probably due to lack of warning and teaching, so the good old Paul made a few things clear after the church grew.
Well said, jimmywitz. Well said!
It is remarkable how much attention the gay issue raises amongst Christians today.
This world is full of war, hatred, killing, poverty, illness and now climatic disaster. But the issue of whether someone loves someone else of the same sex constantly takes center-stage in the Christian psyche.
I cannot interpret for you what Jesus taught: that is between you and your Creator.
But iI am very sure what I have learned from his teachings. He teaches me to show kindness and compassion to others, take care of the poor and the sick, and to be vigilant against self-righteousness and hypocrisy in myself.
Strangely enough, Jesus taught me nothing on the subject of homosexuality. You may think that was merely an oversight on his part. For myself, I am sure that if Jesus felt that it was important, he would have mentioned it.
The ELCA, like many of the old line churches, is desperate to regain membership and it's glory days. (I was raised in the Lutheran church during it's glory days) They are like the kid who was popular in High School but now finds no one really cares or even remembers them. They have latched on to the homosexual issue because they believe by doing so they will make the ELCA relevant to the cultural again and regain their lost popularity. They do not realize that all it does is continue it's slide in to cultural irrelevance. The vast majority of members of Lutheran churches stay home on Sunday morning. If you cannot be "relevant" to your own members, it is unlikely others will find you relevant. It is warning to all of us what happens when you seek to please man rather than God. That seems to be a problem in many churches in the US where being "successful" has replaced being faithful.
I am surprised at the number of votes in support for the so called " chrisitan Gay leaders" during the so called resolution at ELCA annual meet . Any resolutions about leadership and matters related to the church must be made and passed guided by biblical framework and principle and not outside of it. By giving authority to man, the ELCA seems to have dethroned the authority of the scriptures and enthroned majority as the " king ". its indeed heartbreaking to see "the church" which is called to be the light and salt of the earth loosing its saltiness and groping in darkness for answers.
I am not a homo-basher neither I am in support for it. Homosexuality needs to be treated and not exalted. Every homosexual person needs to be helped, counselled and guided to 'return home' to natural function which God has created for sacred purpose. Discipline is a part of this restoration process.
Did anyone look at CNN today in ref to the guy that walked into that Church in Missouri yesterday and killing 3 people to include the Pastor of that Service and injuring several others in the process?
Christianity not sending out too many mixed messages to the general population? Come on......Complicated Issue, definately, maybe its not suppose to be, though
dharris4662 you contratict youself. you tell us that we shouldn't follow any denomination teaching but then you tell us to follow these big ministries which are just as fallible in my opinion as these denominations. if you want to know the Lord you simply need to be filled with the Holy Spirit and read Gods Holy Word in the Bible and be equally accountable to other Spirit filled Christians who know the Lord personally, not some bigshot tv minister's teachings such as their latest '7-step plans to achieve xxx' etc.
Why do people who clearly disagree with the Word and ways of God insist on wanting to preach it? Why do they want to belong to Christ if they refuse to listen to Him?
Does this mean it's okay for straight pastors to fornicate, too?
And Jesus Wept. This is just another example of why Jesus did not teach to follow a denomination. He said come and follow after me. Not come and follow after the catholics, lutherans, baptist or any denomination. I think that the church needs a big wake up call and that means that bible believing Christians need to say to these denominations and Religious people enough. The key is to get a Relationship with Christ first and get out of the Religiousity that is distroying Gods people. Remember the scripture my people are destroyed for lack of knowlege. Knowlege and wisdom come from one source the holy spirit and that relationship can only be formed through prayer, fasting and spending time with God and Learning how to hear his voice. if you wonder how do i do that seek out some ministries Joyce Myers, John bravere of Messenger international, Greg Laurie, International House of Prayer, God TV, Kim Clament, etc. God is shaking his church and he is coming back for a bride without spot or wrinkle. People Get Ready Jesus is coming and soon very soon we will be going home. Where will you be at that zenith hour. (Driven by Eternity, by John Bravere) Read it, it is life changing