Jay Bakker, a big supporter of a pro-gay group, met privately with Joel Osteen of Lakewood Church to talk about faith and sexuality issues and to ultimately gain the support of the megapastor.
Son of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jay and a group of gays and lesbians attended one of Lakewood Church's Sunday worship services in an effort to change the influential pastor's view on gays and lesbians. At the end, Osteen did not affirm homosexuality.
It was the first of six megachurch stops in a pro-gay campaign called The American Family Outing – a collaboration between Soulforce, COLAGE, National Black Justice Coalition, and the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches. Some 30 LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) persons and supporters took their national campaign to the country's largest church on Mother's Day to create dialogue around LGBT issues with members of the megachurch.
"Families come in all forms," said Kim Beggs, a lesbian mother and also an Osteen fan, according to the Houston Chronicle. "God loves us."
The group of 30 met with Osteen after service as the megapastor was greeting hundreds of visitors. The Osteens – including the pastor's mother, Dodie, and wife, Victoria – welcomed Bakker and the guests from Soulforce, according to Lakewood spokesman Donald Iloff, who added that the church does not turn visitors away.
Joel Osteen, his brother, Paul, and Iloff then met privately with Bakker and there they discussed faith, family and LGBT people.
"It was a very cordial, very nice meeting," Iloff told The Christian Post on Tuesday. "But ultimately through our conversations, we continued to disagree with Soulforce and Jay's position."
Iloff says Bakker, whose mother is somewhat of a legend in the LGBT community, and the groups involved in the pro-gay campaign want the megachurches not to see homosexuality as sin.
Although Osteen and leaders at Lakewood open their doors to all visitors, Iloff says they "believe homosexuality is sin" and that "it is disobedience under God."
He further affirmed that they will maintain that position.
Osteen, who authored bestselling book Your Best Life Now, had remained largely mum about the issue of homosexuality but indicated in public interviews that he doesn't agree with it.
"I will say we don't see homosexuality as the worst sin," Iloff commented. "Sin is sin."
Churches continue to struggle with the issue of homosexuality especially at a time when many view the church as judgmental and anti-gay. More Christians are urging churches to show compassion while not compromising what they hold as truth.
"As biblically orthodox Christians respond to issues surrounding homosexuality, and more importantly to those affected by this difficult struggle, we must always hold these two points in balance and in complement – the inerrant truth of God's word regarding sexual behavior and the compassionate grace of our Lord Jesus toward those living outside of it," said Melissa Fryrear, director of the gender issues department at Focus on the Family, according to CitizenLink.
Before Sunday's meeting, Osteen turned down Bakker's invitation to attend a picnic with LGBT families on Saturday, partly because he was in preparation for his Sunday sermon, according to Iloff.
But Iloff had also expressed reservations about meeting with Bakker and the gay community, saying that Soulforce wants to use Lakewood Church to "further their agenda," he told the Houston Chronicle.
"If we met to talk, would this group be satisfied if we agreed to disagree?" he posed before the private meeting was held.
Participants of the six-week American Family Outing campaign will continue their efforts with five other megachurches. Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois, The Potter's House in Dallas and Hope Christian Church in Maryland have already agreed to meet with LGBT families, according to Soulforce. The campaign is also targeting Saddleback Community Church in southern California.
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What is really called''sin'' is homosexual bashing.
First we have to recall that God said homosexual sex is wrong in Lev 18. He repeated this in Romans 1 (that would be where he called it degrading, impurity, dishonoring, unnatural, indecent).
Romans 3:20 says we are not found righteous by the Law, but it teaches us what sin is.
Romans 6:23 says we earn death with our sin.
The Old Testament gives many concrete examples of spiritual truths that are explicitly defined in the New Testament. The basic one of which is that God comes first in your life, then others.
Let’s say that you feel sexual attraction and even love for someone of the same gender. Let’s further posit that you want to marry this person. How can that be against the spirit of what Christ said were the two greatest laws, to love God and love others as yourself?
The answer is in Romans 1:19-32. Let me break it down:
By putting your desires above God's you are putting yourself, a created creature, in the place of God in your life.
By refusing to accept what God has said about homosexual sex being a sin, you are refusing to honor God.
By ignoring His word, you are being ungodly, and suppressing the truth.
By saying that your thoughts on the subject are more important that God's thoughts on it, you are exchanging the truth of God for your own thoughts.
If you want to sin and ignore God, you are certainly free to do so. God will eventually give you more and more of it, until you reap what you sow. When anything takes the place of God in your life (whether its a TV, a job, a person, yourself, your desires, your fears, money, fame, a carved idol, etc), then you are sinning. If you continue to do so, you are hardening your heart. God will eventually give you over to that sin - He will eventually harden your heart.
Your sin will eventually move from a personal hidden thing to a public thing, to a thing where you approve of others doing your sin.
And your sin will cause you to do other unrighteous things.
Now, this goes against what Christ said were the two greatest commands because if you truly loved God OR yourself, you will love God with all your strength, mind, and spirit. You would be obedient to GOD rather than thinking your thoughts and feelings should take precedence over what God has said.
But instead, you choose to argue and justify rather than Love and Obey.
Christ is only the savior for those who trust in His saving work -- and if He is, then they will obey Him, If they do not obey, then that is evidence that He is not their savior.
Hebrews 5:9,
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him
alpick, you are deceived.
That group professes to be Christians, while maintaining a sexually immoral lifestyle. That being as it is, we are told in 1 Corinthians 5:11 [NIV] that we are not to even eat with such a one. It states: "But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat."
Therefore, Osteen did the right thing by not meeting with that group.
The Just Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b]
God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Footnotes:
Romans 1:16 NU-Text omits of Christ.
Romans 1:17 Habakkuk 2:4
Romans 1:29 NU-Text omits sexual immorality.
Romans 1:31 NU-Text omits unforgiving.
First I want to say is HOMOSEXUAL is NOT BY CHOICE, a person is born that way!! I am a homosexual and I am a CHRISTIAN too. Before the man I LOVED died he got saved too. I know he is in HEAVEN and we will be together again when I die and go to Heaven. And to say it is wrong to live together and love each other without being marred, we did too. That is why we was marred. So we was not living in SIN !! I would like you to read from GOD`S words the BIBLE LUKE :17 ; 34 - 36 Then tell me what you think !!
Any sex outside of marriage is a Mortal sin. What you do in the flesh severely affects your soul. A mortal sin is a sin like Paul says that brings death.
If you want life and everlasting life, than accept Jesus' death on the Cross for your sins, repent and do not sin like that again.
ASMatthew
What is your Biblical basis for this statement?
"God loves a sinner but hates sin."
"I will say we don't see homosexuality as the worst sin," Iloff commented. "Sin is sin."
Very interesting. It is good to know that Osteen hasn't completely sold out to the spirit of this age.
God loves a sinner but hates sin. God loves a bank robber, and if the bank robbers of
of a community likes to have equal rights in a Church due to their sheer strength or
persistence to reach parity with the rest of the people, there the real question of "truth"
will be faced with!. The word of God can't be changed, and if we fail to uphold the
eternal truths of the Bible, we will be judged by the judgement of God written very plainly in
the Bible. It is very dangerous to play with the word of God because it is sharper than
any double-edged sword. I have heard sermons years back from the pulpits about women
wearing pants, and I felt pity on those preachers because they were barking at the wrong
subject due to ignorance. But it is time for the men of God to stand firm with the word of
God and clearly stand for the commandments of God, because man can't change God's
laws. Time or majority opinion can't change God's laws.
I consider the Gay movement another de humanizing brick is the modernest wall of speration from the garden.
I love this guy, and I think his position is doctrinally correct and shows spin.
I'm amazed that he had the courage to do it. Will he stand by his convictions when his membership starts declining because of his view?
No he won't.
Weshlovercm: I agree, I believe the love of Christ must be given to all. Whether homosexual, drunk, idolater, reviler, and any form of sinful nature. As Romans 3:23 tells us, "For all have sinned and fallen short to the glory of God." However, you made mentioned that you are a gay Christian and that you and "many others" believe that "homophobia" is a sin. Yet, "homophobia" is not a "sin" mentioned in the Bible. Therefore, it is not a sin but a preference. I do not agree with being homophobic, but "homophobia" is not a sin mentioned in the Bible. Let us be careful with not making our "preferences" into doctrines. You sound like you are trying to defend homosexuality. If homosexuality was indeed not a sin, than one would not need to defend it. However, because it is a choice one chooses to live by, than he/she will defend their preference. I do not have a hate nor a phobia for anyone in the homosexual community, however, one who claims Christianity must than take God's Word as authority and not try to make their preferences into doctrines. Therefore, if you are a Christian who has trusted Jesus as Lord and Savior, than your faith came by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Thus, if the Word of God is what brought you to a relationship with God, than God has also in His Word made it perfectly plain what He feels about all sin, including homosexuality.
megapastors keep themselves well insulated from without, no one is allowed to penetrate that invisible wall. plus like the catholic church, their size dictates that there be little or no major changes in public stated beliefs, because of the possibility of alienation or disaffection which ultimately will effect the bottomline. theology by economics and political necessity
and people wonder why church attendance has diminished?