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Society|Fri, Jun. 27 2008 03:38 PM EDT

McCain Endorses Calif. Initiative to Protect Marriage

By Nathan Black|Christian Post Reporter

Sen. John McCain endorsed on Thursday a ballot initiative in California that would overturn the recent state court ruling legalizing same-sex "marriage."

  • McCain
    (Photo: AP Images / LM Otero)
    Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., greets supporters after giving a campaign speech at the University of Nevada, Wednesday, June 25, 2008, in Las Vegas.

"I support the efforts of the people of California to recognize marriage as a unique institution between a man and a woman, just as we did in my home state of Arizona. I do not believe judges should be making these decisions," the Republican presidential candidate said in a statement, according to ProtectMarriage.com.

McCain's support for traditional marriage was welcomed by conservatives and pro-family groups especially at a time when many of them remain unsure of the Arizona senator and his stance on social issues.

But McCain is slowly winning the hearts of evangelicals and conservative leaders as polls show him head-to-head with presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.

On Thursday, McCain met privately with several conservative leaders in Ohio to talk about social issues, including embryonic stem-cell research, judges and gay "marriage." Although McCain wasn't their first choice for the Republican nomination, some are rallying behind him against Obama.

Participants of the private meeting said the Arizona senator indicated he would take seriously their requests that he choose an anti-abortion running mate and would talk more openly about his stance supporting traditional marriage, according to The Los Angeles Times.

After that meeting, a lot of hearts were changed, said Phil Burress, who led Ohio's anti-gay-marriage ballot measure in 2004, the Times reported. "We realized that he's with us on the majority of the issues we care about."

Although McCain has opposed a federal constitutional amendment preserving traditional marriage, saying he believes states should decide the issue, McCain's announcement supporting the California Protection of Marriage initiative would indicate to many evangelicals that he's on their side when it comes to the core social issues.

"As a leader in the United States Senate and the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Senator McCain's position will be an important factor to millions of Californians," ProtectMarriage.com chairman Ron Prentice commented. "We are honored to have the support of Senator McCain."

Although Prentice also invited Obama to endorse the ballot initiative, his wife, Michelle, delivered a speech Thursday indicating that he would most likely not hop on the traditional marriage bandwagon.

Obama will fight for equal rights for gays just as he fought to help working-class families overcome poverty, she said at a Manhattan fundraiser for the Democratic National Committee's Gay and Lesbian Leadership Council, according to The Associated Press.

McCain is continuing his more aggressive push to reach out to his party base as he is scheduled to meet with the Rev. Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, on Sunday. He said he also hopes to meet with influential evangelical Dr. James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family.

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  • Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The Bible says "love does not seek its own". This means love isn't about your pleasure but about the pleasure of the other.

    I doubt any of the children are seeking sex. They want love, acceptance and money. My guess would be if they got what they wanted without sex they wouldn't 'want' it with you.

    Reality check please!

  • Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:09 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    feet, it is amazing you keep coming here to justify your sin. And to top it off, you say that pedophilia is ok, because it is love. That is sick.

    Jesus spoke out against sexual immorality.
    Matthew 15:18-20
    18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man unclean. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man unclean; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him unclean.

    Mark 7:20-23
    20 He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. 21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man unclean.

    Now, sexual immorality would refer to what God had defined as wrong already by the time of when Christ said this; this would come from the Old Testament. As Christians today, we use both the Old and New Testaments to see Who God is, what God has done, how God feels about issues in life, and what He expects of and for us.

    The word translated as sexual immorality is Porneia. This word means
    1. illicit sexual intercourse
    A. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
    B. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
    C. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11

    Romans 1 says even the desire of a man for a man or a woman for a woman is sin. The act of sex between two people of the same gender is also sin.

    The term translated in Romans 1 as 'lust' is epiqumia in Greek. It means desire, craving, longing, desire for what is forbidden, lust.

    It is even the mere desire for same gender sex that is wrong in God's eyes.

    It does not matter how you feel about it. It does not matter how you justify it. God said if you do not change and turn to God, then you are not saved. If you claim you have repented and turned to God, then you need to live like it.

  • Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:50 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    scits-
    I love your heart.

    I too grew up in a family that had no religious affiliation - unless you think drinking and partying was a religion. LOL - lots of that even to this day.

    I was invited to a wonderful church many years ago as a kid and was told to read through the book of John - in the Bible. I not only read John, but I kept reading and I haven't stopped reading for the several decades!! Before I became a Christian and before the Bible reading, I was having nightmares that were leaving me traumatized and frightened; after committing my heart to Christ - no more nightmares. The Lord speaks to everyone differently. I pray you receive Him as your Lord and Saviour.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Scitz,

    I actually came from a very similiar situation as you have. I grew up in a solid family, irreligious, middle class, and with all the opportunities afforded to me.

    I used to think that homosexuality was a good alternative lifestyle (my uncle is gay). I don't blame you one bit for your views, because I had very similiar views as well.

    I will also state that I think it's unbiblical for a Christian to judge homosexuals outside the Church.

    Christ moved on my heart in my first year of university and I hope he will do the same for you.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rolln4him, Call me a Humanist if you like, I'm not much for labels, but if thats how you want to classify me, I guess thats OK. I derive my values on having grown up in a stable family and was taught to treat others as I would want them to treat me. There was no religion in my home when I was growing up.

    As far as homosexuality is concerned, I say live and let live. I have a number of gay friends, very decent people I might add that I would trust with my life, and I have talked to them in depth about their sexual orientation, they all tell me about the same thing. They knew at a very young age that they were different than the other kids- they were not attracted to the opposite sex. They didn't like the feelings they were having because they were told it was wrong and that something is wrong with a person attracted to the same sex. After years of struggle, they finally accepted they are attracted to the same sex. It's not something they decided, its what they are, its how nature made them Same for me, its how I was made- a heterosexual. I knew at avery young age I was attracted to the opposite sex, not something I decided, its how I am programmed by nature.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    (sickoids being people like feetxxl).

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:52 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Oh man. Un-Believable. This is the problem. They throw out God's Word (except a couple of fragments to confuse real Christians), and march around inflamed with all kinds of perverse lust.

    Gay-sex, lesbian-sex, animal-sex, child-sex, monkey-sex, giraff-sex, pre-maritual fornication, any kind of irreligious, perverse fornication you can think of is approved by these sick-oids.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feetxxx-

    At least you're constant in your depravity unlike most in the gay agenda crowd.

    You simply affirm what the gay agenda is itching to get to and that is to break down any barrier that would keep them from doing unimaginable. Gay sex, child sex, group sex, sex with animals, sex with things and the list goes on. Really all it is - is ultimate rebellion against the Lord, Almighty.

    May God help you. Please, Lord

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    So you are saying that pedophilia is not sin and against God's Word?

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    the answer is the same.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feetxxx -

    I'll post my question for you again, since you must have been napping or something and answered my question in delirium -

    So, using your logic, if a 12 yr old boy and a 39 yr old man "love" each other and want to engage in a sexual relationship, then this would NOT be a sin?

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    since heterosexuals and homosexuals bond in the same spirit, whatever is a sin heterosexual bonding is a sin in homosexual bonding, and vice versa about what is not a sin.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    scits -

    When I say "making up your own world" implies that since you don't adhere to the Christian worldview of subjects like homosexuality, then you must derive you're values elsewhere; thus making up your own world - in essence you are also considered a Humanist as well since Truth can not be found, right?

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    scits -

    Me too. I didn't know you weren't a Christian, because you came across as being one.

    However, you face a unique situation. I'm almost certain that at one time you believed that homosexuality was a sin . If this is an "affirmative" than what made you change? If it's negative what basis did you use to see that it was OK?

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rollin "therefore he's one his own to make up his own world."

    not making anything up there rollin, perhaps you should read up on what an agnostic actually is.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:58 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    matt-

    Way to go! I couldn't of handled scits and feetxxx any better. You tha man!

    LOL! I noticed feetxxx left the building. Wolves tend to run for cover when they're detected. Licking wounds, but he'll come back somewhere else to try and pick of the weak and babes in Christ -

    As with scits - you've hit it on the head - not a believer (though hopefully someday) therefore he's on his own to make up his own world.

    You're a great man of faith and a tremendous "warrior"!

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    no problem matt, i didn't make that clear to you that i am an agnostic. in your view, yes, I can see you consider it a sin, fair enough. I will say though my agnostic views are less a product of culture, more what of what i have formulated in my mind over many years and agnosticism makes sense to me, not religion as such.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Fair enough Skits, your answer is perfectly acceptable. You're not a Christian, so it can't be expected that you adhere to Christian Morality on every point. We Christians call it sin, but obviously your views are tied to the culture.

    Forgive me for calling you a 'pervert' in that case, I didn't realize you weren't a Christian.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:50 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    OK matt & rollin, as an agnostic I say its [homosexuality] NOT A SIN.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:49 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Didn't answer the question, scits.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:48 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    matthewr1 "Rolln: Check-mate."

    Yeah right, whatever, read my recent post.

    "Pervert", hmmmm, interesting, I guess I never really considered myself to be a pervert.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Sorry, Scits, can't weasel your way out of that one. The question was, is it sin or not; not is it against the law or not.

    You must answer: Is it SIN, ir is it not SIN.

    We're not concerned whether or not it's against the laws of the country here.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rollin "So, using your logic, if a 12 yr old boy and a 39 yr old man "love" each other and want to engage in a sexual relationship, then this would NOT be a sin?"

    it would be against the law, the 12 yr old is minor, and needs protection under the law as a young person. you described a poor hypothetical. Here is a better one, if the 12 yr old was actually 21, they would be consenting adults and as such, would #1. be their business- not yours, or mine, #2. I dont have a problem with it. It would not be my "cup of tea" as I am a heterosexual, but gays are programmed by nature to be attracted to same sex just as i am programmed by nature to be attracted to the opposite sex. I say live and let live.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Rolln: Check-mate.

    These perverts clearly know what sin is, clearly laid out in the OT and NT, they're just playing dumb. Thus is the tactic of heretics: they know what's right and wrong as laid out in God's Word, yet they warp the Scriptures to suit their own wicked purposes.

    Feet - If there's no conviction of sin, than the Holy Spirit is nowhere to be found (refer again to the 1 John 3 passage). The Scriptures make this plain. So you don't have a free ticket to sin. Don't get me wrong (because I know you'll probably try and warp my words), we do have forgiveness when we do sin, but by NO MEANS do we then have free reign in the world of indulgence.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Ooohhhh! LOL! You're trying to use the "I'm as stupid as scit is" mentality -

    OK, I'll give your logic a swing -

    So, using your logic, if a 12 yr old boy and a 39 yr old man "love" each other and want to engage in a sexual relationship, then this would NOT be a sin?

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    how can it be? it doesnt come against loving ones neighbor as oneself.......the summation of all the law.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:44 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feetxxx;

    Do YOU think homosexuality is sin?

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    everything i have said is straight out of romans.

    why is it your brand of christianity can answer none of my questions? it is without witness ,without testing, and without explanation.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet-

    You're starting to get Christianity 101 by stating that "if one follows the 3 commandments what possible sin is not covered"?

    The problem is is that you have exchanged truth for a lie thus you're trying (is this is the problem with supposed Christians that think homosexuality is not sin) to make what is clearly a sin not sin.

    In essence you make a much better Humanist or Universalism than a Christian and it would be safer for you too.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:13 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    scits-

    Playing stupid is a sin! --- LOL!!

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    i would amend your concept of not continuing to sin to those whom the holy spirit convicts their hearts of sin and then gives thru grace the power to turn from sin.

    otherwise according to your understanding, in the last 2000 years there were no believers, because of the presence of perpetual sin...........from 2000 years of antisemitism, that culminated in the halocaust, in spite of romans 10 and 11, the genicidal slaughters over differences of belief, such as french protestants and catholics slaughtering each other over a creed, 1800 years of ethnic slavery supported by the church, 1500 years of the practice of indulgences, 1800 years of the slaughter of the saints by the church,100 years of the unfettered racism(specifically in the south, blacks could not eyeball whites, and any white person regsrdless of age could tell a black person to something and if they didnt comply there was a knock on their door that night to be dealt with as severly as to be not be seen again.

    at the turn of the century if you lived in the south, in order to be a successful businessman or to be politically viable, membership was required in the klu klux klan.

    and this us just the tip of the iceberg of all the travesties throughout history, all done by believers.

    in my opinion it is the fool who credits himself with totally being aware of all the sin in his life, tothe point that all that has to be done is to show him and he responds with automatic repentance.

    surely you are aware that the majority of sacrifices of leviticus are for unknown sin.

    i have seen nothing that would indicate that believers today were any more aware their sin than the isrealites of the past.

    wasnt that the reason for the cross. that man could not follow the law in regards to sin, could not not be depended on to repent..........turn from his sin. isnt grace about inspite of sin that we are unable to control, we rely on what christ did on the cross, not the believer trusting in what he can do regarding sin.

    if paul in romans 7 admits of this being in his own life...............are believers to credit themselves with more?

    that concepts of repeated sinning, and repentance required for salvation have nothing to do with the gosp

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    2 Timothy 1:7
    For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    there have been comments about the three kinds of love....philos eros and agape. agape being the love of god. all three created by god. surely it is agape being present with the other two, that validates them. it is the absence of agape, in the presence of the other 2, that allows for the possibility of sin.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:09 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    you mentioned the parable of the good tree and good fruit. my understanding is that the fruit, is that fruit of the spirit of gal5.........love, joy,peace, kindness,gentleness, goodness,self-control,patience, and gentleness......which of themselves are spirit........spirit creating spirit.

    the greatest of them being love. 1cor13 says that anything without love is nothing and gains nothing....
    jesus commands and teachings being about love. and god himself being love.

    in short a good tree is an abider in love.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:51 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    if one follows the three commandments what possible sin is not covered.

    jesus said we would recognize them by their fruit. sin is not about form, but about essence of spirit.

    paul said we serve of and are led by the spirit, having died to the law and now being under grace.

    surely if loving ones neighbor as oneself is the summation of the law and love is its fulfillment, then sin would be anything that comes against the commandment.

    the question being how does homosexuality come against it?

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:17 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rolin, what is a sin exactly?

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Nice try, Feetxxl, your excuse might have worked with a more ignorant Christian.

    Just because, we ought to love God and love our neighbours, are the two greatest commandments, doesn't mean that we now have a 'free ticket' to sin.

    There are two sides of heresy on the issue: 1.the Legalists 2. the side of the Nicolaitans (cf. Rev. 2:6).

    I won't spend too much time on the Legalist heresy, but the Nicolaitan heresy basically goes as this: Christ died on the Cross, He forgave my sin because I believe in His resurrection, therefore, I have a 'free ticket' to sin.

    Both heresies are abominable before the Lord. Just because Christ forgave our sins, doesn't mean we can go out and commit as much sin as we please (homosexual relationships being among them). For a New Testament reference in which it clearly outlines the sinfulness of homosexuality, please refer to (e.g.) Romans 1:26-27.

    Besides, you say the Law is done away with; Christ never said that, he said he came to 'fulfill the law' (cf. Matt 5:17).

    Might I kindly say, you have a very poor understanding of the New Testament, and the grace of Christ - which is our righteousness. A righteousness that does not lead to sin, but to life. For sin is death and righteousness (Christ)is life.

    Luke 6:43 (words of Christ):
    No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit

    1 John 3:9-10

    No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

    So you see, sons of God cannot continue in filth and sinfulness, otherwise Christ has no part in us. Homosexuality is sin (as clearly outlined by the NT see e.g. Romans 1:26-27, and various other places of Scripture), therefore sons of Christ cannot continue in partaking of such abominable things.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    scits -

    Clarify your stance on homosexuality: Sin or No sin?

    Feelxxx-
    I said POINTED scripture. Something to the effect of God ordains those of all sexual orientation type scripture.
    Not peripheral scripture that can be applied in general terms. I gave you pointed scripture. You give me nothing you liar. You're a fake. You're worse than an unbeliever, because you seek to deceive and mock God you heathenist crock.

  • Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    its your intention to remain under the old covenant.

    jesus teachings in the new are about......."40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."......"There is no commandment greater than these."............ "is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

    surely, if all things have been put under christ's authority then nothing is done under the new covenat that is not done thru him and his teachings and his NAME.


    its interesting that all discussion about homosexuality being a sin is about "god's law" at the exclusion of the spirit of christ, his authority, and his name.

    in fact i have rarely seen any explanation given thru him.

    possibly it is because of an attempt to embrace the old covenant relationship to the law.

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    It's really rather plain: anyone who strives to have a serious relationship with the Lord must say sin is sin: e.g. homosexual behaviour.

    Now I don't think we're in the business of judging the Heathens (cf. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13), but we've gotta clean house inside the church (again, cf. 1 Co. 5:12-13).

    However, I do lament the fact that our society is becoming so immoral. I do think we have a responsibility to do what we can as Christians to impact our culture too.

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rollin "Are you not calling those of us that support marriage homophobes and haters?"

    NO

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I'll tell you what? Let you challenge me with scripture. I'll give you pointed scripture dealing with homosexuality and you give me pointed scripture that proves otherwise.

    Leviticus 18:22 -

    "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination."

    Sounds pretty plain to me.

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:11 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Matthew 19:19
    Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "

    Matthew 22:38-40
    38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[a] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

    Mark 12:30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[a] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[b]There is no commandment greater than these."

    Mark 12:33
    To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

    Luke 10:27
    He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    and what teaching is that?

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feel -

    Do me a favor and stop catering to those demons in your head and take their scumming talons off your shoulder and listen up, dork.

    Jesus may have "emphasized" as you say, but that doesn't trump all other teaching through scripture, dog!

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    scitsonga-

    you said "The so-called threat to marriage, by gays, is simply a smoke screen to hide homophobia and hatred towards gays."

    Are you not calling those of us that support marriage homophobes and haters?

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    here again it is interesting that christian groups put so much emphasis on family. but christ's emphasis was loving ones neighbor as oneself and loving those who dont love you. your neighbor being everyone else.

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    as i said no test and are without explanation!

    what is the sin? if it is a sin how does it come against loving ones neighbor as oneself....the summation of all the law, the second greatest commadment,"there is no greater"

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rollin "The name-calling ain't working anymore, you big baby! Grow up and face your sin.
    "

    what?, your post doesn't make sense.

  • Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    scitsonga -

    And the name-calling such as "hate" "homophobia" by the gay agenda is a "smokescreen" for the need to be loved and accepted.

    The name-calling ain't working anymore, you big baby! Grow up and face your sin.

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