For many Americans, all they've heard is that Christians are "anti-gay." The recent passage of amendments in California, Florida and Arizona defining marriage between a man and a woman and the large support those measures drew from churches haven't changed that perception, and perhaps made it worse.
But few, if any, especially in the media, have given the public the "whole story" about churches and their persistent efforts to protect what they believe is God's definition of marriage.
"I’ve not seen any attempt [by the mass media] to understand or communicate the real concern of Christians concerning gay marriage," said Bob Stith, who heads the Ministry to Homosexuals Task Force in the Southern Baptist Convention – the largest Protestant denomination in the country.
And Christians haven't been much help either.
"Too many Christians have cooperated with this by emphasizing more of what we’re against than what we’re for," Stith commented, concerning the gay marriage debate.
But much of that "whole story" includes love.
Former homosexual Melissa Fryrear educates thousands of Christians every year on how to respond to the issue of homosexuality in a "Christ-like" manner.
Director of the gender issues department at Focus on the Family, which hosts Love Won Out conferences, she says she has been accused of being anti-gay because of her beliefs.
"I'm not anti-gay because I'm a Christian and I'm a heterosexual evangelical Christian," said Fryrear, who became a Christian and came out of homosexuality over 15 years ago. "I'm pro-biblical sexual ethic. I'm pro-God's created intent for sexuality" – that being marriage between a man and a woman.
"That's what I'm for, so anything that falls outside of that falls out of God's intent," she highlighted.
"It's not what I'm against, it's what I'm for," she added, noting the nuance.
Still, it's a tough sell for many gay rights supporters, especially the thousands that marched last weekend in protest of the passage of gay marriage bans in three states. Hundreds stood in front of churches with protest signs.
Some opponents of California's marriage amendment, or Proposition 8, went as far as releasing blacklists (antigayblacklist.com) of those who made monetary contributions to support Proposition 8. The list includes the names of individuals, businesses, Christian ministries and churches and how much each donated.
Proposition 8 opponents are now preparing to defend same-sex marriage in court after California's Supreme Court agreed Wednesday to hear multiple legal challenges against the amendment. The high court had ruled in May to legalize marriage for same-sex couples and an estimated 18,000 gay and lesbian marriages were sanctioned before the Nov. 4 vote.
Meanwhile, proponents of Proposition 8 are also readying their arguments as the state high court agreed to allow them to intervene as defendants in the case. Arguments will be weighed beginning next month.
But while the legal battle rages on, Christians have been given the opportunity to clear up misunderstandings and boldly share their faith, some say.
"If people misunderstand Christianity or misunderstand God's truth, here is an opportunity for us to try to articulate those correctly and to demonstrate those rightly," said Fryrear of Focus on the Family.
That means, defending God's design for sexuality and doing so in a spirit of grace, humility and compassion, she explained. Continue >>
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John....there is no point in this discussion because you can't have it honestly. Yes, I do think Lev. is absurd, and if you stop to think, so do you, as I doubt you follow each and every word of it. Its just too convenient for you to use the one part of Lev. out of a sea of absurdities that allows you to condemn me.
I don't see much point in this discussion. I am a Christian who believes and respects the word of God. You are claiming that what the bible clearly calls an abomination is "OK" with God, and referring to the bible as garbage in one of your posts. I would have better luck trying to convince someone that the surface of the sun is ice cold than to continue with this.
I am amazed that you could make that supposition seeing as how you don't know me or anything about me. I am questioning your beliefs, as I strongly doubt you follow each and every law of Lev., but that doesn't mean I don't believe in the Bible and I don't believe I've said anything that would lead you to believe I "promote" any kind of "behavior." Get yourself in check, my Christian buddy!
"So its the inspired word of God that men should not shave their beards, trim their sideburns, eat non-kosher meat, plant more than 1 crop per field, wear clothing of more than one material, etc? "
If it's in the bible, it is the inspired word of God. Obviously you do not believe what the bible says which is not surprising since you promote behavior that is clearly condemned as an abomination. All I can say is I pray you will find the truth someday.
weekenderman:
why don't you post your 'facts'? And with the millions of dollars that were spent to get prop. 8 passed, you're saying that all the poor were not in need at that point in time?
Poor mburkel, doesn't even bother to look up the FACTS and discover that it's evangelical Christians who are doing the most to help the homeless, the hungry and the adulturers of this world.
"If it seems that we devote an inordinate amount of time addressing that it is because an inordinate amount of time is given to promotion of homosexuality."
Please, if you had another minority that you could step on to raise some cash at the collection plate, we won't be first in line. How funny that 'curing' that 1% (as you report we are) of the population is soo important to fufilling God's word. Forget about the homeless, the hungry, the adulturers; some how stopping this small percentage of people and setting them straight is doing Gods work. Really... What a strange God you worship.
Mike: If you even tried to understand the Bible in context, you would realize that God has dealt with humankind differently in the Old Testament (when people were judged based on their works) and in the New Testament (when they were -- and are -- forgiven through the grace of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross).
Each of the Old Testament "rules" you homos love to mention were done away with when Christ did away with the old law, yet the Lord Himself reaffirmed the roles of men and women in the New Testament age (see the words of Jesus Himself, or the words of the Apostle Paul in Romans).
Homo sex was sin back then, and it's still sin now. As Christians we warn people against continuing to live in their sin, and we warn them because we love them and want them to live lives that are truly happier (more gay, but not in the perverted sense).
So its the inspired word of God that men should not shave their beards, trim their sideburns, eat non-kosher meat, plant more than 1 crop per field, wear clothing of more than one material, etc?
The "garbage" as you call it is the inspired word of God. Your last comment speaks volumes.
Well, its moreso the garbage around that verse that makes that one hard to swallow.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
What part of this verse is not understood?
Its not changing the word of God. What's funny is that that word of God has been changed by your breed to justify their beliefs (i.e. adding in the word homosexual when the original word was translated as effeminate, which are not actually one in the same!)
I pray for those so arrogant they think they can change the Word of God to suit their sinful lives. This is nothing short of blasphemy which will be answered for before the Lord one day.
I pray for those so arrogant they think the word was written to put them on a pedestal.
2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Pray for those who need to hear His word.
"I have spent hundreds of hours conversing with Biblical scholars on the issues of homosexuality in the Bible."
So you now consider your pets to be "biblical scholars"? I think you got DOG backwards, buddy!
For those of you who insist on using the bible to condemn homosexuality -I urge you to read this:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/172653/page/1
Ender, its not a sin, and I have spent hundreds of hours conversing with Biblical scholars on the issues of homosexuality in the Bible. If you read the Bible as it is today, yes, you would think homosexuality is mentioned, but the word itself was interpreted into the Bible! If you go and study Corinthians, for example, and REALLY talk about the historical context, it is blatantly clear that Paul is talking about temple prostitution as a ritualistic, idolatry act. Love between two men, even if its expressed sexually, is not an evil thing. There is no greed or lust between my partner and I (or at least we strive to be as best we can just like any straight couple I know.)
I worry for a country where citizens know more about their favorite sports team than they do their religion, their God or the scriptures that support it. Many gay marriage supporters point out that the Bible does not expressly ban nor condone gay marriage. While its opposition point out verses that do label it as a sin.
Yet this is the basis for the seekers of gay marriage, it might not be a sin. That's a flimsy bit of reasoning to risk your soul on. Are a few decades (at best) of sin worth an eternity in hell?
We Americans research what vehicle we will buy. We check websites, magazines, and ask friends about makes and models. We spend hours often every week or month doing this for current and future purchases. But yet we invest very little time in the Bible or in prayer with God. Is your soul less important than your new car? Your next Ipod or computer? America is experiencing an economic meltdown from its investment in impractical, immoral, or illogical policies and businesses. Do we want to do the same with our souls? Few retiring senior citizens are risky with their retirement funds, they play it safe because the consequences could be disasterous. Shouldn't we abide by God's laws in the same manner? After all, none of us knows when our last day will be.
Elbib, all you do is accuse! The Bible is not written plain and simple. Jesus did not speak plain and simple. We have been blessed with wonderful minds, and to take everything at face value is simply absurd. I do not think I am superior to God, but you seem content accusing me of such so you can feel superior to me.
Mike: Your the one that said that "God gave us a mind to think critically." So if you want to believe something that Scripture does not support, then, your critical thoughts are superior to God's. This was the same mindset the devil convinced Eve to embrace. It's not hard to judge someone who has this kind of philosophy. The Scripture is full of examples. It's defined as idolatry, pride, fleshly lust, carnality. I can't help it that you place yourself in that position through all that you say on the myriad of threads. Your mistake, outside of having this philosophy of mind, is to tie love together with sexual intimacy. Just because you have the one doesn't mean that the other is automatic. It is regulated based on the instruction given in God's Word. But, I'm sure, in your critical thoughts, you will find a way to dispute this truth and convince yourself otherwise.
Elbib, you know nothing of me, yet you assume to much. I guess you never sin since you feel so free to judge me.
Yeh, Mike22685 is a critical thinker. His suppositions supersede God's Word. He is another Eve. He will eat from the tree even though God says to do otherwise.
no. not really. but thanks for your concern.
jester in the Kings court
'this guy' who wrote the article you are referring to is named Lillian.
Looks like you have more to worry about than homosexuals huh!
you know...this guy didn't have to write an entire article on getting the whole story out about homosexuality. i can do that in one sentence.
its a sin.
and that's the whole story. :-)
Mike: I am not ignoring your comments. But when God has something to say to a person, whether or not they receive it, then it's time to move on. You have continually trampled His Holy Word. You do not want the Truth. I pray for God to open your eyes and turn your heart to Him before it is too late for you. I's up to you whether or not to receive. There is a day of reckoning and it is coming quickly.
SMBGA, yes, I do think I am going to heaven, and I do not think it is your place to tell me whether I am or not. Prophet, I've already answered where I get my definition of effeminate, and I very clearly asked YOU whether it was a sin for men to be gentle, which I see you ignored and rather pretended that's what I was asserting.
Homosexuality is not an abomination. It is not a perversion of love. It is love just as real and kind and gentle as the love my parents have for one another. My partner and I care about each other through all aspects of life, and I know that someday you will pay dearly for twisting the Bible to your own devices rather than living out the greatest rule: to love. Plain and simple.
malechi;
If the legal system of the US was of christian heritage, the bible & gods law would be taught in every school, mandatory. -- answer, they were until the early 1900s
In fact teaching religion is illegal! The US legal system & laws are no place for religious agenda. --answer, If only you were right; our scools are indoctrinating the religions of humanism and Marxism
Christian judgement of non christians is not only hypocritical (by your OWN standards) --
answer; In the public square Christians are judging and supporting the right morals and fighting sinful laws, not individuals.
Homosexuality is NOT a crime -- answer; in God's eyes the behavior is an abomination and leads to certain death. God loves the sinner as we are all sinners and God invites everybody to believe in His Son and repent of their sinful ways to have eternal life.
I would agree with you. But sin is a big issue in our country. It's what will bring our country to it's knees. As we're discovering about our own greed. Add to that pornography, alcoholism, homosexuality, adultery, and rampant divorce. All of which no one seems to have a problem with. Oh well. It's all part of the plan. Don't worry. Homosexuality and their marriages will eventually be "accepted". Then they will turn their sights on Christianity and make it a hate crime to speak out against it. Then the Bible will censored. And incest marriages will come in some point in there. And the country will sink further into immorality. And people will smile like a rat basking in the warmth of freshly fallen cow feces. Hey...as long as they're warm and happy, who cares what it is.
While i have enjoyed the exchanges on this site, I'll have to make this my last as I am having trouble posting...
I can only try to restate my original post in simpler terms...
If the legal system of the US was of christian heritage, the bible & gods law would be taught in every school, mandatory. IT IS NOT. In fact - teaching religion is illegal! The US legal system & laws are no place for religious agenda. Homosexuality is NOT a crime - & so gay marriage (the legal contract) should also be legalized.
Christian judgement of non christians is not only hypocritical (by your OWN standards) - it is also totally irrelevant to those you judge! Stop wasting your time & energy! (Honestly - the christian obsession with homosexuals at the moment is getting REALLY creepy).
The sooner you people open your minds & hearts and stop this pointless crusade - the sooner the world will be able to solve the REAL problems our planet faces.
Peace.
Mike: do you believe that you are going to spend eternity with God?
MIke,
And where do you get your definition of effeminate?
So it's a sin to be nurturing and gentle. Even though the Bible tells us to be gentle.
Having sex with a man is a female quality, because that is the way nature/God created it. I see no child bearing organs on a man. Homosexuality, in nature, is an anomaly, a defect. It was not the way nature/God intended it to be. How do I know? Common sense. A man has the proper "tool" that is designed for the "tool" that a woman has.
The love that homosexuals profess is a perverted love. It is not the love that God created.
No, I don't really think that's a "quality" as much as it is something women do. Also, you are assuming that having sex with men is a feminine quality because in your mind that is the only way (when in fact there are gays and lesbians. Also, are lesbians not condemned since they are being masculine by your standards?) A feminine quality is more like gentle, emotional, nurturing, etc.
Well, as you see from my last post...aving sex with a man is a feminine quality.
No need to type slower, just think a bit more clearly, thanks. My definition of effeminate is possessing traits traditionally associated with a feminine woman. Men having sex with each other is not effeminate, it is a very loving act (or at least it can be.) Again, is it a sin to be effeminate? Is it a sin for a man to cry easily or perform in a ballet? Those would both be considered effeminate by societal standards, right?
Nature created a woman to have sex with a man. A woman is a female. It is the female's part to have sex with a man. Therefore, having sex with a man is a female attribute.
Maybe I should type slower for you.
What is your definintion of effeminate?
Are you drinking right now? Your lost post was so incoherent I couldn't follow it. Please clarify. Also, would you care to explain how sex with another man is effeminate? I'd appreciate some clarity in this discussion.
There go interpreting "effeminate". Is this your definition of effeminate?:
"Effeminate is not a word."
I get that feeling.
Having sex with a man is effeminate.
Prophet, having sex with a man is not effeminate. Does it mean that God supports a gender binary? Should all men be brawny men and never cook or clean, since those are effeminate? Should men not like to plant flowers or perform in a ballet since that is effeminate? What an assertion you make!
Pastor Russ: are you in Florida?
HAWK49 - having problems posting more than 2 lines atm, so will have to get back 2 U another time. I'm either being censored or there's a technical problem...
Well, I for one am tired of the godless people forcing their views upon me.
malechi
enforce - to use force or constrain. Don't believe I have done this; but I have expressed my beliefs as best as I understand God's will. God's moral laws apply to everybody because He says so; I have only repeated what He says. He will enforce His laws on everybody come the day of judgement.
What Bible Study website did you get this stuff?
Where is this in the Bible? "you know it's a sin to forbid others to marry?"
...And have U ever felt anxious? That's a sin. - You're right about this being a sin, but what does the Bible say to do about this? What is the point you are trying to make of this particular issue?
Ever read your star sign? Big sin. (the death penalty no less) Is this still deserving of the death penalty or was the death penalty done away with under the covenant of grace?
Ever worn gold or pearls? Sin. Where in the Bible does it say this is a sin? Suggest you study the context and perhaps a commentary for the true meaning.
Ever had a beer? What a sin. Where in the Bible is this? What is the context?
"There's about 600 others you're saying the whole world HAS to follow" - Are these all moral laws or do they also consist of sacrifice, ceremony, ritual, liturgy, instructions, washings, convocations, holy days, observances, conditions, and warnings? Most of these I believe were given to only the Jews to follow before the covenant of grace through Jesus Christ. The reason for the laws was to demonstrate that no person could keep them and that there was a need for a Savior to offer eternal life as everybody is a law breaker and deserving of death.
You do have to put this stuff into context. Suggest you start with Romans and a commentary or two to gain some understanding of the context.
malechi,
LOL. Sorry. I was in a rather terse mood that day. My apologies.
Well im' starting to feel the love now! 3 different people being either insulting, condescending - or just being sarcastic!
Pastor Russ - You & i seem to be making the same point from opposite ends of the argument! I'm talking about the lack of legal equality - & so are you. So as far as i can tell we agree. Lovely.
HAWK49 - In true christian style you've contradicted yourself within a breath. You said 'I am not enforcing my beliefs on others' and in the message before you said 'God's laws apply to every one of His creatures (believers and unbelievers), not just to believers as some of you contend.' So, you're not enforcing your beliefs on others - but they apply because you say so. Hmm.
Oh and all those 'sins' i listed - i got them off a bible study website. I know you guys like to pick & choose & distort context whenever it suits your agenda - but my point was valid & hardly 'baseless, illiterate rhetoric' - but thanks anyway.
And finally - Prophet (i'm sure you are)...
it bothers ME when people leave remarks when they really have nothing to say - so i guess we're both bothered. (that's GOTTA be a sin!)
PEACE!