Updated 12:47 pm.EST, Sun November 22, 2009

Education|Wed, Mar. 25 2009 08:38 AM EDT

Over 100,000 Outraged over Obama Speaking at Notre Dame

By Nathan Black|Christian Post Reporter

Outrage over the invitation of President Barack Obama to offer the commencement address at the University of Notre Dame has translated to over 111,000 signatures and counting in protest.

At one point Tuesday evening, the website notredamescandal.com popped up with the "Server is too busy" statement as the online petition continued to collect an average of 1,000 new signatures every 15 minutes.

"People are outraged, and the alumni of Notre Dame in particular are communicating to each other," Patrick J. Reilly, president of Cardinal Newman Society, which launched the petition, told LifeSiteNews.com.

White House officials announced on Friday that Obama had accepted Notre Dame's invitation to speak at the May 17 event. Following protests from pro-life groups, university alumni and religious leaders, the White House issued a statement Tuesday saying Obama welcomes the "spirit of debate and healthy disagreement on important issues."

Bishop John D'Arcy, the Roman Catholic Bishop of South Bend, Ind., has decided not to attend the commencement ceremony, where Obama will also be given an honorary degree.

D'Arcy's main protest is against Obama's recent actions which include lifting a ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cell research and overturning a policy that banned U.S. taxpayer money from going to international groups that perform or promote abortions.

"President Obama has recently reaffirmed, and has now placed in public policy, his long-stated unwillingness to hold human life as sacred," D'Arcy said Tuesday. "While claiming to separate politics from science, he has in fact separated science from ethics and has brought the American government, for the first time in history, into supporting direct destruction of innocent human life."

Reilly of Cardinal Newman Society (CNS) told LifeSiteNews.com that he sees outrages all the time but he believes Obama's selection was "the last straw."

"The president has been waging a campaign of human destruction with his policies, and abortion, and stem-cell research, and now trying to eliminate conscience protections for healthcare workers," he said. "And in the meantime, Catholic institutions – in particular Catholic universities – have been very quick to abandon their Catholic mission for the sake of prestige. And this is probably the most prominent Catholic University hosting the most prominent leader of the Culture of Death."

CNS, which is dedicated to renewing and strengthening Catholic identity at the nation's 224 Catholic colleges and universities, launched the petition on Friday right after the announcement by the White House. Other groups, including Notre Dame campus organizations and Catholicvote.org, have joined the petition drive.

"Notre Dame has chosen prestige over principles, popularity over morality," the petition laments.

Despite the burgeoning protest, the president of the renowned Catholic university, the Rev. John Jenkins, said the invitation still stands, citing that past presidents from both political parties have also spoken at Notre Dame's graduation ceremonies.

"We will honor Mr. Obama as an inspiring leader who faces many challenges," Jenkins said. "It is of special significance that we will hear from our first African-American president."

He added that the invitation does not mean the university supports all of Obama's positions and that it "should not be taken as condoning or endorsing his positions on specific issues regarding the protection of human life."

"Yet, we see his visit as a basis for further positive engagement."

Meanwhile, CNS' petition says Obama's pro-choice views "directly contradict fundamental Catholic teachings on life and marriage" and violates the 2004 "Catholics in Political Life" mandate, part of which states: "The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions."

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  • Sat May 02, 2009 9:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Chas-Doesn't it bother you a little that your form of worship is not Apostolic? Doesn't it bother you why there is no standard form of worship within Protestantism and yet Catholics and Orthodox worship the same way as we did for 2000 years in a standard form of worship as handed down to us by the Apostles? Yes, you are right on again, Chas as the Nicene Creed (accepted by most Protestens) points out that the 4 Marks of the true are: One, Holy, Catholic, AND Apostolic (only one Church around today that meets this criteria. Guess who?

  • Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Embryonic research has never been successful and same results can be obtained from adult cells which has proven to work (without destroying human life). Umbilical cords are another source which has also worked. Christopher Hitchens is right on the scienfific proofs of human life with the embryo. In the Roe vs Wade decision (which is not found in the Constitution anymore than Mickey Mouse) no Biologists were on the panels consulted because if you put a 100 of them in a room-100% would agree they are human life. Roe herself, believes life begins at conception. Go Roe.

  • Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Boy, Chas you are well read and accurate. Yes, the Mass is centered around the Eucharist. Another historical proof is that the Romans always considered the Christians "cannibals," because of us following Our Lord's directive to receive Him in the Eucharist (a privilege I am "in awe" of every day). Many Catholics are foolish not taking advantage of this daily (but some cannot because of medical reasons, taking care of sick family members, etc.)

  • Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:09 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Yes, I like James, too.
    James 2:24, 26 - "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone... For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead." (see all of James 2:14-26)

  • Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    MSN70 First time I saw your posting. Right on. You have the term I was searching for, Sola Scripture (self-interpretation) which leads nowhere and to confusion...what my Baptist friend calls "Bible jousting."
    Yes, there is no justification in Scripture and our monks
    preserved the Scripture by their painstaking hand writing of the Scriptures during the Dark Ages (prior to the printing press (1600s) or we'd have no Scripture today.
    Thanks

  • Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:43 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hey, I have the best thought for all of you-Catholics and Protestants: Shudder! What if Our Lady had said "No" to the Angel Gabriel (with a free will she had that option)
    We'd all be in hell.

  • Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Yah, the Vatican guy at Durban was sent there to "boo" that devilish speaker.

  • Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    â

  • Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:36 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Good research Chas. The list of Popes matches mine exactly.
    Online4Him thinks James was the lead Apostle? That kind of blows his other theory:
    â

  • Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    In the urgent interest of moral consistency, how is it that the 2004 'Catholics In Political Life' standards CNS here quotes,especially re."should not be given a platform", did not apply for the VATICAN which is keeping a warm and silent seat at the execrable UN Durban II conference in Geneva this week? There the keynote speaker was, on the anniversary of Hitler's birthday and the eve of world Jewry's Yom Hashoah, the genocidal Iranian President? Now THAT's a platform!

  • Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:17 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Chas,

    If apostolic succession was so easy to prove . . . why have you tried to impose your interpretation into the texts of Scripture? Yes, I along with millions of others are content to stand upon the Scriptures; a (thus saith, the Lord) is what makes or breaks any belief system. Speaking of the keys . . . Jesus says:

    And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth (Revelation 3:7).

  • Chas »
    Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Apostolic succession is easy to prove. Did you forget how Peter convened the other 11 faithful Apostles and lead the meeting to elect a new Apostle to take the "Office" of Ministry of Judas???? They elected Mathias and they laid hands on him. This is how Apostolic succession took place and still takes place today, except in your sect.

    Online, you should get a "Hebrew Culture and language for Dummies" book. You would know pretty easilly how significant the "Keys" are, but I'm sure you will just remain in your comfortable ignorance since that is what you do. Everything is up to your own interpretation as usual even if evidence suggest otherwise. What an interesting non-Christian concept you practice!

  • Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:16 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    Acts 1:13-26: It says, And THEY appointed two . . .
    Acts 2:41-47 says, the LORD added and received those who should be saved.

    Acts 3:6-7 Peter asked an important question: why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? Hmmm . . . sounds like he knew it was not by his authority.

    Acts 5:1-11: It was the Lord who executed judgment . . . not Peter. Oh, you forgot verse 12; And by the hands of the APOSTLES were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomons porch.

    Acts 8:21: It is a far stretch to equate this verse with excommunication. Verse 22 says, Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and PRAY GOD, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

    Acts 10:44-46: Peter did not admit anyone . . . verses 34 and 35 say, Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. God was admitting the gentiles and Peter had to understand.

    Acts 15:7: This chapter says nothing of Peter leading . . . it says, (apostles and elders). Barnabas, Paul and James also led out in the first Council in Jerusalem . . .

    Acts 15:19: Uh, you may want to re-read this passage in its context . . . it was James who gave the dogmatic council in verses 19-21. It goes on to say in verse 22, Then pleased it the APOSTLES and ELDERS with the WHOLE CHURCH, to send chosen men . . .

    Gal 1:18: This passages does not even use the word CHIEF to describe Peter . . . verse 19 also says that he saw JAMES . . . maybe he was the chief apostle?

    Sorry, using Eliakim in Isaiah 22 to support a (universal priest) in the New Testament is highly ingenious, but there is no connection.


    (The Pope is the Prime Minister for Christ with the final authority to bind and loose!)

    Sorry, again you have not been able to prove apostolic succession from the scriptures . . . . You may want to look into the following info . . .

    A copy of the Jan. 18, 1947 news article from Vatican City: It was titled, (VATICAN DROPS 6 NAMES FROM LIST OF POPES).

  • Chas »
    Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 8

    And don't forget that the "Keys" are Dynastic which means it goes forever and is passed down to another who will fill this office.

    St. Peter (32-67)
    St. Linus (67-76)
    St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
    St. Clement I (88-97)
    St. Evaristus (97-105)
    St. Alexander I (105-115)
    St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
    St. Telesphorus (125-136)
    St. Hyginus (136-140)
    St. Pius I (140-155)

    And so on to Pope Benedict XVI who is Christ 266th Prime Minister on Earth for the King of Kings!
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

  • Chas »
    Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 7

    The number of petition signers is 237,000.

    I hope Father Jenkins is removed from his position as President and the Board of Trustees are removed as well.

    It won't happen, but it is a thought.

    The Pope exorting his power of the KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN:
    Acts 1:13-26 headed meeting in which Mathias is picked to replace Judas.
    Acts 2:41 Received first converts
    Acts 3:6-7 performed first micracle after Pentecost
    Acts 5:1-11-inflicted first punishment(Ananias & Saphira
    Acts 8:21 - Excommunicated first Heretic(Simon Magnus)
    Acts 10:44-46 Receives revelation FROM GOD to admit Gentiles
    Acts 15:7 Led first Council in Jerusalem
    Acts 15:19 pronounces first DOGMATIC decision
    Gal 1:18 after conversion, Paul visits Chief Apostle

    It is always "Peter and the others" or "Peter and his companions". Peter is the RocK!


    Do any of you Protestant not understand how huge Christ giving of the KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS???? REad the Old Testament. I find Protestants do not read the Bible as a whole and very often ignore the Old Testament. The New is the fulfullment of the Old. See what KEYS mean in Isaiah 22. You may become Catholic right away when you figure out that Keys denotes Prime Ministership for the King and only the Prime Minister while the King is physically away has total authority. This significance of the KEYS was not lost on Jesus or the Apostles or the early Christians. The Pope is the Prime Minister for Christ with the final authority to bind and loose!

  • Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    forsaltnlight,

    I agree . . . much prayer.

  • Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:42 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Msn,

    (Without a Pope, my former fellow Protestants are like a boat without a rudder)

    Hmmm . . .

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5).

    Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; (1 Timothy 6:15).

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me (John 14:6).

    For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11).

    Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession (Hebrews 4:14).

    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:12).

    Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light (Matthew 11:28-30).

    I do not read of a pope/universal priest in these passages . . . please post some passages from the New Testament that give us similar language concerning the pope.

  • Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:25 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Chas,

    Why do continue to attribute many of your institutions unbiblical doctrines to the apostles? If you desire to know what the apostles actually taught . . . read the scriptures.

    Alignment with Scriptural teaching, not apostolic succession, is the determining factor of the trueness of a church. What is mentioned in Scripture is the idea that the Word of God was to be the guide that the church was to follow (Acts 20:32). It is Scripture that was to be the infallible measuring stick for teaching and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is the Scriptures that teachings are to be compared with (Acts 17:10-12). Apostolic authority was passed on through the writings of the apostles, not through apostolic succession.

  • Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:04 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    "Truth is found only in Christ, and his Prime Minister is the Pope."

    In the truth, we do not find one man preeminent in the church that Jesus is building called, Prime Minister, Our Holy Father, Most Blessed Father, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Primate of Italy, or Patriarch of the West.

  • Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    Well said, Chas!

    I was a Reformed Protestant Minister and after many many years of being anti-Catholic I became Catholic because of her Truth. The fact that Jesus founded one church, the fact that church had a hierarchy, the fact that Protestant interpretations of scripture have no historical record, the fact the Reformed & Baptist and Pentecostal form of worship is "Made Up" based on man's interpretation of scripture and it was not apostolic, the fact that no where in the New Testament does scriptures allow for you to start your own church ever, the fact that sola scriptura is a self-defeating doctrine since it is not in scripture even implicitly, that we are not saved by faith alone, and that only the Church hierarchy within the councils and synods have the right to interpret scriptures and therefore educate their members in faith and morals.

    Bottom line, history supports all of Catholic beliefs. The Whole of Scripture supports Catholic beliefs and the whole of Sacred Tradition that comes from the Apostles is still lived in the Catholic Church.

    Without a Pope, my former fellow Protestants are like a boat without a rudder. Truth is found only in Christ, and his Prime Minister is the Pope.

  • Chas »
    Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 6

    Mathetes,

    I meant the oldest writings outside of the Bible. The Didache is not inspired, but tells us how to understand the bible in terms of Worship.

    My point: Catholics and Orthodox worship the way of the Bible as attested to by historical record. Protestant worship is non-apostolic, non-biblical and is an invention by men not of God's hand. Protestant worship style has no agreed on form because each denomination makes it up as they go. The more newer the sect, the more invented the worship. The older the sect, the closer to real apostolic worship it is.

    Thanks for that correction, but you get my point. One style of worship was designed by God and passed down by the Apostles and still lived and practiced by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, and the Protestant way of worship is designed by men who want to be so "Seeker Friendly" that they have lost any idea of what worship is.

    You can look at the Bible and use books like the Didache as a reference and use writings of the earliest Christians and then look at the Mass and the Divine Liturgy and you will see the connection to the Apostles and Christ. YOU WILL SEE NO CONNECTION TO THE APOSTLES IN PROTESTANT WORSHIP.

  • Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:31 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Chas,

    Far be it from me to stop someone in mid-tirade, but I need to point out a little fact. You wrote:

    "Moreover, I would suggest reading the Didache which was written in 80ad. The Didache is the oldest Christian writings that describe how to worship and what the details of the Mass and divine liturgy mean to you from an Apostolic understanding."

    I think the oldest description of Christian worship predates the Didache by at least 17 years. It's called 1 Corinthians. In that letter Paul wrote (1 Cor 14:26-33):
    26 What is {the outcome} then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
    27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, {it should be} by two or at the most three, and {each} in turn, and let one interpret;
    28 but if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.
    29 And let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.
    30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, let the first keep silent.
    31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted;
    32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;
    33 for God is not {a God} of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

    Just wanted to set the facts straight. Carry on.

  • Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:20 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Hyperion-

    I was Protestant too once. But then I read the Bible.

  • Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Chas-

    A very profound comment.

  • Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:10 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I really wonder how many of the over 100,000 were "truly" outraged....as opposed to just following the crowd....

  • Chas »
    Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    HyperionOverseer,

    Doesn't it bother you a little that your form of worship is not Apostolic? Doesn't it bother you why there is no standard form of worship within Protestantism and yet Catholics and Orthodox worship the same way as we did for 2000 years in a standard form of worship as handed down to us by the Apostles? Doesn't it bother you a little that historical record always backs up our interpretation of the scriptures and your interpretation of scripture has no historical basis?

    Doesn't it ever both you, that the main things that designate you as a Christian from a doctrinal standpoint came from the Catholic Church. Doesn't it bother you that the New Testament that you love so much was defined, written and collated into the "Bible" canon by the Catholic Church. So, you accept the bible's authority and yet not the Church that preserved the correct letters and Gospels? Doesn't it bother you that the earliest Christians worshipped, prayed and believed as Catholics do today and yet Neo-Christians like Evangelicals reject early Christians ways?

    Protestantism/Evangelicalism has given the world 4 things and only one of which is good. You gave us sola scriptura and sola fidei which cannot be found in the bible, historical record or christian tradition. You gave us 40,000 denominations that can't agree on the major important understandings of Christianity and finally Praise &worship music that is kind of nice although not completely biblical in nature.

  • Chas »
    Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    HyperionOverseer,

    The Mass:
    http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/catholic_mass_bible_references_full_text.htm

    This will show you the parts of the Mass and its biblical foundation.

    Having family that is both Catholic, Baptist, Evangelical nd Mega Church types I can tell you that the Mass is the most biblical presentation or service among the three.
    In fact, every part of the Mass from the Introductory Rite, Penitential Rite, Gloria, Liturgy of the Word(Old Test, Psalm, New Test, Gospel)Homily(message), profession of faith, prayers of the faithful, Liturgy of the Eucharist, Rite of Communion and concluding rite are all Biblical.

    Moreover, I would suggest reading the Didache which was written in 80ad. The Didache is the oldest Christian writings that describe how to worship and what the details of the Mass and divine liturgy mean to you from an Apostolic understanding. The reason why we Catholics and Orthodox celebrate the Mass and Divine Liturgy very similarly, but with some cultural differences is because the Apostles handed this down to us from Jesus. I can tell you that we Catholics and Orthodox celebrate our services like the Apostles did. The Christian communities that formed out of the Reformation have kept many parts of the Liturgy, but the Baptists and newer sects are non-liturgical peoples and have rejected the form that was handed down by the Apostles because they put their interpretation over what was handed down by the Apostles.

  • Chas »
    Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    HyperionOverseer,

    The Bible does not have a perspective my friend. The bible does not self interpret. It is your perspective and self interpretation of scripture that makes your understanding of the Eucharist, Papacy, the Mass seem odd. Remember, the Church is the foundation and bulwark of Truth(1Tim 3:15), not you.

    I would say that you should do some "Actual" research. What does that mean. If you want perspective on Jews, you wouldn't do your research only from a Palestinian perspective would you.

    I would encourage you to look at Catholic Resources like www.catholic.com , www.ewtn.com or listen to Catholic Radio. You see, my friend, I am not surprised you cannot see these things in the bible when most newer sects of Protestantism like Evangelicals do not tie historical record to the Bible and they do not tie the Traditions of what the Apostles handed down. Without context the bible may not be clear to you.

    The Eucharist is based on the Last Supper and John 6. Historically all Christians accepted the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Traditionally this was always taught having come from the Christ to the Apostles until after the Reformation. Remember Lutherans, Reformed, Anglicans and Methodists do believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist and it is not just symbolic either.
    The Papacy is based on Matt 16:18 where Simon is renamed Rock and given the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven and you see in Isaiah 22 that Keys in Jewish culture means "Prime Minister", and in John 21:17 where Peter is given Christ flock as chief shepherd. Historically, we see the Bishop of Rome as the final aribitrator of Truth, we see the Pope being the final court of appeals with other dioceses far and wide. We also see the Bishop of Rome to have the final say on doctrine, morals, legislation, etc. This follows the actions of St. Peter in the Bible.

  • Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:21 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    mathetes: Forgive me posters, but I have found no other way to get messages through other than to post a comment and I needed to get a message through. Mathetes - I finally saw your message. Thank you for your opinion on the site...I appreciate it very much that you took the time to check it out. Peace to you.

  • Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:14 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Beforehand, we all have different beliefs, views and interpreted things differently. We have one World, many religions, but solely one God. We must come together and live righteously for the wellbeing of mankind, and pursue goals to honor God. The unborn child has the right to be born, period. Those who are for abortion may ask themselves "what if I was that unborn child and they have chosen to eliminate Me from being born". In reference to the President One day he will give an account to God for his wrongdoings. Institutions that value integrity and decency have no part whatsoever extending invitations to people regardless of rank of service that contradict with their beliefs. Sincerely, hide

  • Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:16 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Steve,
    "I think a good test here would be to ask contributers to pledge not to accept any treatment for illness etc.. for themselves, children, etc..that has come from research using embryonic stem cells. This would be consistent."

    I, for one, would take that pledge. It's not a bad bet at all. How many diseases have been successfully treated with embryonic stem cells? None. How many diseases have been successfully treated with NON-embryonic stem cells? Last I heard, over 80 and growing. Plus, scientists recently induced normal skin cells to behave exactly like embryonic stem cells: they're call induced pluripotent stem cells (iPS). Why continue to destroy human embryos when you can have the benefits of stem cell treatments without ending human lives?

  • Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:14 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Cheisa,
    "It's refreshing to hear evangelicals speak well of the Catholic Church, except for Mickey C who has some weird ax to grind, I guess. Thinking Christians realize that all Christian churches have more issues that bind us than separate us. Christian unity is a good thing for all in this world. Let's keep it up."

    You are spot on with those comments. It always angered me when I heard a Baptist say that Catholics are lost. Many of the RCC members I know trust in Jesus for their salvation same as I do. Of course, there are some in the RCC who trust in their works for salvation, but we have Baptists who do the same thing. It's not your name on the membership roll of the church that gets you to heaven, but having your name in the Lamb's Book of Life.

  • Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:59 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    "Heres how that will work Mickey

    1. Catholic church pronounces such a thing as dogma
    2. Many Catholics rightly ignore it just as they did with the contraception issue.
    3. Ah.....thats it.

    BW

    Steve "

    Of course you are 100% correct. That's what makes all this protesting such a farce. I can list any number of RC's who have had abortions and don't worry about it. These people seem to like having rules just so they can break them. Too weird.

  • Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:33 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Heres how that will work Mickey

    1. Catholic church pronounces such a thing as dogma
    2. Many Catholics rightly ignore it just as they did with the contraception issue.
    3. Ah.....thats it.

    BW

    Steve

  • Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:49 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 2

    "It's refreshing to hear evangelicals speak well of the Catholic Church, except for Mickey C who has some weird ax to grind, I guess."

    We all know about Pius XII. It's not a big secret considering whole books have been written about his actions during WWII......

  • Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:48 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    "I think a good test here would be to ask contributers to pledge not to accept any treatment for illness etc.. for themselves, children, etc..that has come from research using embryonic stem cells. This would be consistent."


    What a great idea! I hope that the RC church puts that out as a major dogma for their followers.

  • Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:01 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 6

    It's refreshing to hear evangelicals speak well of the Catholic Church, except for Mickey C who has some weird ax to grind, I guess. Thinking Christians realize that all Christian churches have more issues that bind us than separate us. Christian unity is a good thing for all in this world. Let's keep it up.

  • Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:51 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    I think a good test here would be to ask contributers to pledge not to accept any treatment for illness etc.. for themselves, children, etc..that has come from research using embryonic stem cells. This would be consistent.

  • Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:53 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Chas, delight and Bro_Stev,

    GREAT COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!

  • Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:30 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    randerson1184:

    "I'm not sure I understand. You guys want to prevent the destruction of a clump of cells which you deem a "life"? Don't you realize what potential science has suggested this has? Don't you realize how much human suffering will end as a result of allowing us to harvest stem cells from fetuses?

    Seriously, when I squash a tree seed, is that analogous to me cutting down a tree? C'mon, for real?"

    The answer to your first question is a resounding YES!!!! By the way GOD made that life; he (God) is the source of life not man. Adult stem call lines have generated more advances in the medical field that any other. I strongly disagree with your statement that the scientific community should experiment on stem cells harvested from a fetus. There are NO proven advances that can be made from destroying a fetus in this manner. Also, your analogy of the tree seed, how idiotic of you to use that one since the tree doesnâ

  • Chas »
    Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:08 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    HyperionOverseer,

    While most protestant churches are declining, and most evangelical churches are growing from those who leave the mainline, the Catholic Church is stronger than ever. In one year alone 92,000 people came to the Catholic Church in the Diocese of Phoenix alone. www.catholicscomehome.org

    The majority were fallen away Catholics who attended evangelical churches and those who didn't attend any form of Christian worship. While the US saw a decline in our growth rate, the Church as a whole grew 16 million in one year which is larger than most of the Protestant denominations as a whole.

    The Catholic Church is strong because of who protects her; God. This Spring the Catholic Church will welcome into her fold, God willing, and entire branch of Protestantism from the Anglican Church. They estimate this will be a group from 400,000 initial Anglicans to a few million. We are growing, we are stregthening and in many places we are beginning a whole new evangelization campaign that frankly hasn't taken place in a long time.

    The Catholic Church is planning on mobilizing 25 Million Catholics to go door to door. The goal is to begin this project by 2012. These people will come from missionaries, catholic school teachers, media, volunteers, religious orders, community service groups. If and when they begin this project it will bring the majority of non-Catholic Christians, non-believers and fallen away Catholics back into communion with the Church.If this happens, I can tell you that the Protestant and Evangelical sects of Christianity will shrink in half or more because people will want the fullness of Truth, not just a portion of it.

    "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you, says Jesus.

  • Chas »
    Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:56 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Hyperionoverseer,

    Not sure what you meant, but chick couldn't be further from the Truth. He is a prime example of hatred with no edcuation to back up any of his points. His comics appeal to those who have little to no education and those who are simply too lazy to seek the truth on their own. Their humor masks their true evil intent. Billy Graham at a festival in San Jose in the 90's said that those Chick tracts are not truth at all and highly misrepresent the Catholic faith.

    There are many groups like these who appeal to a small group of people, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, etc. They will be judged.

  • Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:20 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Thanks for the family background chas, triple citizenship,you certainly bested me there, but I'm concerned, surely that should be quaudruple if you add in the kingdom of heaven?

  • Chas »
    Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    No wonder, I'm English/Irish with triple citizenship and most of my family in England are moderate to Liberal Catholics. The Protestant side of my family there are lame.

    England is an impovrished land Spiritually. Great Britain is no safe home to Christianity, especially devout orthodox Catholics which you are not one of them.
    You are either with the Church on everything or you are an Ala Carte Catholic, which is more like a Protestant. You should be an Anglican, you fit in better with that bunch.

    English Catholics and Protestants are pretty weak in their faith as exibited by their laws in that country.
    Relativism is rampant there!

  • Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:34 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Sorry to disapoint you chas but being British I don't vote democrat (or republican). Off to bed soon for a good nights sleep.

  • Chas »
    Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    AMEN Hyperionoverseer Brother in Christ!

    Steveh20 is probably a Nancy Pelosi or John Kerry style Catholic. You know the type, they say they are pro-life but they vote for people who vote for policies that are pro-Death?

    I'm surprised that type of vile hypocrisy doesn't keep them awake at nights, eh?

    Protestants and Catholic must STAND FIRM against politicians and people within our own churches who claim to be Christian and yet vote Pro-Choice and Pro-Gay marriage.

    I fully realize that us Catholics and Protestants have differences, but I am not going to let that 5 or 15% that divides us to be what I focus on. I am focusing on what we share in common in historic Christian values, beliefs, etc. We must come together to fight SATAN and all his works. He is the father of lies and seeks to divide us and destroy the message of Christ.

    We shall not let the Devil overcome us, for we have been saved by Christ death and resurrection.

  • Chas »
    Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:38 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Isn't it interesting that Catholics and Protestants alike who are faithful to the Word of God and have a strong personal relationship with Jesus are all Pro-Life, and those who are more relativistic about their faith tend to be Pro-Choice.

    Hmmm. The Truth is the WORD OF GOD!

  • Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:29 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    Stem cells come from a variety of sources. Embryonic stem cells come from aborted babies. It is only one source of stem cells. Adult stem cells can be taken from an adult human with no damage.

    The arguement here is based on the source of the stem cells.

    http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics

    "Research on adult stem cells has recently generated a great deal of excitement. Scientists have found adult stem cells in many more tissues than they once thought possible."

    The anti-life camp is trying to justify abortion by claiming the advatages of stem cell research. This is just a twist of truth (aka lie) to justify abortion. Adult stem cell research is just a promising without the abortion or any damage to human life.

  • Chas »
    Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:53 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    Also, the most well known ATHEIST, Mr. Christopher Hitchens is Pro-Life. Not because he believes in God, but because he believes in Science.

    Science says, life begins at conception. PERIOD. Killing human life even at the Embryonic level is immoral whether you are a believer or not. Even atheists know this especially if they have science background.

    Hitler killed humans to create new medical discoveries and everyone is outraged by this attrocity. Many non-educated people who don't know science and will not do their own personal research on this issue sit by ignorantly to the fact that life begins at conception. So, if they do their research not based on religion but on science then they would realize the person who is guiding them to be pro-choice this whole time....SATAN!

    Do your homework. All science books say life begins at conception within days it has a heartbeat. Just try being pro-choice after you hear your babies heartbeat or see its feet and hands in an Ultrasound. You won't be pro-choice anymore because you will know that choice stands for MURDER.

  • Chas »
    Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:47 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    Big difference between embryonic stem cell research and ADULT Stem cells.

    A little biology lesson. An embryo is a fertilized egg which has all the DNA of a human and is human based on its DNA. Just because it doesn't have legs and arms yet, doesn't negate its humanity. Babies are born with defects all the time. Some mental and some that are physical like being born without arms legs, eyes, etc. Yet, this does not negate their humanity.

    Adult stem cells work. Stem cells from your skin, from teeth, from a placenta, from an unbilical cord all have been used successfully for cures of different diseases including some cancers and none of these Stem Cells involve the deliberate killing of human life. The vast majority of private industry do Adult Stem Cells because they work and there is a profit in it.

    Private companies do not do embryonic stem cell because there has never been a cure from even one trial, thus making no profit in it. Trust me, if embryonic stem cell could create cures the private industry would be in that business. Moreover, embryonic stem cell only causes three things; Rejection, Benign and malignant Tumors, Infection.

    Do your homework. No ProLife Christian whether they are Catholic or Protestant can support the killing of innocent human life like embryonic stem cell research, abortion, euthanasia and cloning.

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