100,000 Atheist Britons Seek 'De-Baptism' from Christianity

By Ethan Cole|Christian Post Reporter

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More than 100,000 Britons have downloaded “certificates of de-baptism” on the Internet to cut ties with the Christian faith.

Some of these atheists argue that they were baptized when they were too young to make the decision, and now that they’re able to make a choice, they want to renounce their Christian baptism.

“We now produce a certificate on parchment and we have sold 1,500 units at three pounds ($4.35) a pop,” said National Secular Society (NSS) president Terry Sanderson to Agence France-Presse.

NSS’ de-baptism initiative follows closely behind the British Humanist Association’s “There’s probably no God,” bus ads. Dozens of buses across England carried the atheist ad that encouraged people to stop worrying and enjoy their life since there is probably no God.

The posters were in retaliation to a number of Christian ad campaigns on London buses.

Prominent and outspoken atheist Richard Dawkins was among those behind the atheist bus campaign. He publicly endorsed the bus ads as well as partially financed it.

The “no God” bus ad concept had also spread to Spain and Italy, but conservative politicians in Italy helped block the ad from running.

Britain’s de-baptism movement, meanwhile, has thus far spread to Spain, where a man has gone to court to have his baptism record erased, according to the International Herald Tribune.

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believer »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:10 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

ihs, you said it yourself the eucharist is a representation of Christ's death on the Cross and you're exactly right it is a very solemn time when we commemorate the greatest act of love the world will ever know. But with all due respect the bread and wine/grape juice does not literally become the body and blood of Jesus Christ because if it did we would be recrucifying Him over and over again. Plus, all true believers are saints!
believer »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:05 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

ihs, as far as child dedications, you're right totally a manmade tradition. But when I and many other Southern Baptist pastors do them we don't in anyway give the idea that the child is being saved and in fact it is more for the parents and the local church. The parents declare before God and the church that they will raise their child in a Christ-like way in hopes that the child will one day be saved and the church agrees to come alongside the parents in helping them to do just that. Unlike infant baptism we do not give them any false hopes with regard to the spiritual condition of their child.
believer »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:00 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

ihs, the reality is fortunately for God's Church there has always been a remnant of believers who have stayed true to the Word of God and have not been led astray by the catholic church or any other denomination or cult that allows tradition and extra-biblical teaching to contradict, violate, or supersede God's Word. If you want to believe the bread and wine literally becomes the body and blood of Christ, to be honest is one of the least of my concerns with the catholic church, but when you teach false truths such as water baptism is a mandatory requirement for a person to be saved you are saying the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross was not sufficient for the forgiveness of sin and salvation requires works and that is simply not true.
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:11 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

So where's that water that makes me thirst no more?
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:04 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

"Happy Easter to everyone! He is risen!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ugh. Another pagan holiday instituted by the "holy" Catholic Church.
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:03 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"When you stray so far from the historical church, no wonder you have to make things up.'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Amen. That's why I'm a part of the True Church that bears no other name than Jesus Christ.
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:02 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Happy Easter to everyone! He is risen!

Happy Holy Thursday, Good Friday, Holy Saturday, Easter Sunday!

Happy Ascension and Pentecost too!
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:02 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"Enjoy your dedications, my friend. Dedications...what a laugh! Man made Traditions for sure."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Much like infant baptism. Neither are found in Scripture.
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:00 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

I am really surprised that you said that about the resacrificing thing? I mean, did you ever read the Catechism? Did you ever read anything when you were Catholic? I mean this is prett basic stuff. Half of your attacks against MSNChris and Chas show that you haven't read from a Catholic resource since probably grammar school.

Since you respect Fulton Sheen, read some of his stuff on the Eucharist, baptism, Grace and many other topics. He is truly amazing the way he writes and it will do you some good to at least be informed to what Catholics "Really" believe and teach.

You are a genuine person Believer, so be yourself and do some real due dilligence and read from Catholic resources about all the topics you generally attack and see if those resources don't offer you an extremely compelling, biblical, historical and common sense understanding of Catholic belief. The scary thing is you may come back to the Catholic Church. Why? Because I sincerely believe you love the Lord and I sincerely believe you will go where ever He leads you to Truth if you ask like I did.

I prayed, "Lord, if this Catholic stuff is true then help my unbelief and my bias and give me the gift of faith so I can be lead more fully to your Truth." "I will go wherever you send me, even if it is in communion with the Catholic Church."

You see, I never wanted to become Catholic. I didn't think Catholics were really Christians, but I love Jesus and I love His Word and His Truth so much I studied everything I could get my hands on from both perspectives(prot & Cath)and low and behold I find out my worse nightmare..."I am a Catholic" in evangelical clothes!

Resources: www.catholic.com , Dr. Scott Hahn, Peter Kreeft, Thomas Howard, www.catholicbridge.com, www.catholicconvert.com Steve Ray(baptist), Tim Staples, USCCB, etc.
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:44 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Believer,

Yes, Fulton Sheen is a Saint and he has my respect too.

Jesus died once and for all on Calvary, and you know that the Catholic Church isn't resacrificing at Mass. It is the representation of the one time sacrifice of the body and blood of our Lord, blood of the new and everlasting covenant which will be shed for you and many so that sins may be forgiven. The Eucharist is a representation(do this in memory of me) of that sacrifice on Calvary. Each Mass Catholics accept that one time sacrifice for all sins through the bread and wine which are his body and blood.

Posse? That is funny coming from a Southern Baptist. Your Posse did the rounding up. There is no more discussion about baptism because you and your posse gave up after seeing how the historical witness proves the Catholic interpretation of scripture. Your interpretation of scripture cannot be found in historical record before 1600's.

Enjoy your dedications, my friend. Dedications...what a laugh! Man made Traditions for sure. Not that Dedications aren't cute and all, but c'mon believer. They are a poor and ineffective substitute for the REAL THING. I went to a dedication in a evangelical church a month ago, and guess what the dedication was the same thing as a baptism. I asked the Pastor why he did that, and he told me there is nothing in scripture on how to dedicate so he baptized the baby. But then he quickly said the baby when it becomes an adult will need a second "Believers baptism". So, now we have two baptism? When you stray so far from the historical church, no wonder you have to make things up.

Please just be honest and recognize that your interpretation of scripture is new and does not fit with the early Christians. This is what it boils down to, is that newer Christian evangelical and baptist groups reject most of what the Apostles taught. You do not give any authority of what they taught because you feel the source is corrupted, and yet you can't give me a date when it was corrupted.

The faith of the early Christians was Catholic, the faith of today's Southern Baptist is neo-Christian. You threw the baby out with the bath water and this is why your issue isn't with just Catholicism it is with Reformation Protestants too and the Orthodox. I bet within a few years my dad and granddad become Catholic. Give them the writings of the early church fathers and they will be Catholic soon enough.
believer »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:01 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

ihs, by the way if you read the Word you'll see that Christ died "ONCE" for the forgiveness of sins, not everytime the Lord's Supper is observed!
believer »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:00 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

ihs, plus, the only one judging people here appears to be you, but I notice that you and your posse backed off of the water baptism issue, I wonder why?
believer »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:57 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

ihs, are you and mickeyc related because with the way you throw around this psycho-babble like him, you sound like you might be, but my question once again if Christ was speaking literally why did they not begin to cannabilize Him right then and there? As for your quote from Bishop Sheen I had the opportunity to personally meet him when he was the bishop of Rochester and in fact I got a hug from him when I went to kiss his ring and he would not let me. His breaking of some of the traditions of the catholic church earned him my respect for sure.
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:26 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

IHS,

So where's that water that makes me thirst no more?
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:25 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

"I find it odd for someone like you Prophet who loves the Lord and yet profanes him in your speak.'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Very few do understand a prophet. But I find it odd that a church group that claims to be Christian overtly teaches anti-scriptural doctrines. And even many that go against what their supposed founder taught.
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:40 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

I find it odd for someone like you Prophet who loves the Lord and yet profanes him in your speak.

You are speaking of Jesus in an unflattering way about his body and blood. Even if it is the Catholic belief you are making fun of, it is Christ you use in the joke.

Take care of how you speak about Christ, your Lord and Savior who this week we celebrate his pain and suffering of his Passion and celebrate his victory over death for your sins and the sins of the whole world. Have reverance in using the Lord's name.
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:36 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Yes, Prophet this is what you are to believe. The bread and wine do become the body and blood of our Lord, while the accidents remain bread and wine to the taste.

We don't know how He does it, but we have faith. We don't know how He made the World out of nothing, but we have faith. We don't know how he walked on water, healed the blind, the sick and raised the dead, but we have faith.
We have faith in the WORDS of eternal life. We don't have to understand them as the world does, but we must understand them with the light of faith and trust without pause the Savior's Words.

Where shall we go Lord, for you have the Words of Eternal Life. Be humble and believe.
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:36 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Jesus said He was the water, and that if any man drinks of this water they would not thirst again. Why don't you guys have that water? I thought you were God's "chosen church".
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:34 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

IHS,

Alright. Since you don't want to produce Jesus body, I would assume that it's some cult secret where it's at. And the secret as to how you can feed millions of people every week with 175 pounds of flesh. I won't pry into that little secret.
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:32 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Believer,

If you pay attention to the Chronology, you will see in John 6 that it promises a future event of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, then later at the Last supper the Eucharist is instituted as seen in Mt 26:26ff,Mk 14:22ff, Lk 22:17ff.
Matt:
26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
27And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you;
28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Do you not see how Jesus says the Bread is his body and the wine is his blood? It is not symbolic after Jesus teaching in John 6.

It must be really hard from you, to have had so much faith to become a Priest once to have found a seminary that did not inspire you and you left your vocation, and refound a new vocation to serve the Lord. I'm sure you do a great job in serving the Lord believer and hopefully your bitterness and justified resentment of that particular seminary and people you met there will be evaporated one day so you can see the Bride of Christ in her Glory once again. Do not judge those people harshly for we have those types in the Evangelical world too.

As Archbishop Fulton Sheen once said, "It is Jesus Christ who made eternal promises to the Catholic Church through the Apostles and while some of our members fail her and some may even push others outside of her loving embrace by their bad example, it is Christ alone who beckons you to return home to the one church filled with the fullness of His Spirit."
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:26 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

IHS,

So, I'm suppose to just believe that the wafer and wine really ARE literal flesh and blood and not question it? By the way, that Scripture you quoted was in reference to His resurrection only.
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:20 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Prophet, you will now be called Thomas, Doubting Thomas that is.

Blessed are those who do not see and have faith!

St. Ignatius(successor of Peter in Antioch) 110ad
"Heretics abstain from Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ." Letter to Smyrneans 6,2,2.

St. Justin Martyr 150ad: "Not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but as we have been taught the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by HIM, and by the change of which our blood and flesh are nourished, is both the Flesh and Blood of that Incarnated Jesus." First Apology 66,20

St. Irenaus of Lyons 195ad: "Jesus has declared the cup, a part of his creation, to be His Own BLood, from which he causes our blod to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, He has established as His Own Body, from which He gives increase to our bodies." Against Heresies 5,2,2.

St. Cyril of Jerusalem 350ad: "Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that, for they are, according to the MASTER's declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge this matter by taste, but be fully assured by faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST."

You of so little faith, Trust in the Lord and take His WORD as He said it and meant it.
believer »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:12 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

ihs, since the Lord's Supper had not been instituted yet, why didn't those who stayed start eating His flesh and drinking His blood right then and there. I'm told that satanists do, so why didn't they if this passage is to be taken literally?
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:07 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

I am leaving my evangelical seminary at the end of the semester, I will be taking more classes to finish up my Masters of Theology degree from a Catholic university near here and by next spring I will come into full communion with the Catholic Church. I have to continue my studies and wait a period of two years before I can enter Catholic seminary, so I will have time to discern the Priesthood or the Diaconate.

I thank all my teachers, especially those strong Reformed pastors, who guided me in my prayer life. I am so blest to have started doing research on early Christian worship and discovering the early church. I found after much study that this early church was CATHOLIC and my Christian understanding of baptism, sacraments vs ordinances, Eucharist being the True presence, were all wrong. My interpretation of these things prior to research matched my denomination, but did not match the beliefs of the earliest Christians.

I can say with great love, that soon I will celebrate, believe and worship in accordance with the early Christians and enter their ancient Church; The one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

May God in his mercy and justice bring all my fellow evangelicals to a fuller understanding of Christ only revealed in His Catholic Church.
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:07 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

I wonder if they took the sacraments that the Catholics use and did a test on them if the results would come back that they were actually flesh and blood...or simply bread and wine.
IHS »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:56 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Johavanisi,

I use to think as you did, but then I continued to read John 6 in its entirety. If the bread and wine which became the blood and body was only metaphorical, then why didn't Jesus make it clear to the Disciples who left him???????

You see, whenever Jesus said a parable or gave a teaching anywhere in the New Testament he always makes sure they understand what he is saying. He reiterates it another way or explains it so no one is lost to its meaning. Except in John 6, where some could not handle this teaching much like you and all non-Catholic Christians. If it was only Metaphorical then common sense and consistency of patter in teaching would say that Jesus would have said something like," Hey guys, I wasn't speaking literally the bread and wine are only symbols of my body and blood." If Jesus was only being symbolic, then why did he press the teaching even more by saying, "UNLESS YOU EAT MY FLESH AND DRINK MY BLOOD YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU"John 6:53 Then Jesus pushes the point even harder and says, "And he who eats MY FLESH AND DRINKS MY BLOOD has eternal life and I will raise him on the last day."John 6:54 55"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. It is extremely obvious he was not talking symbolically here. Why would he let his disciples leave him, unless of course that they did understand he meant literally to eat his flesh and drink his blood in the bread and wine.

The majority of Disciples left Jesus because they could not handle that this bread and wine would become his body and blood, just like you. We don't know how it occurs, we just take Him at his WORD.

66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
67So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
68(Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
69"We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God."

You see my friends, this was not symbolic language at all since Jesus pressed the teaching and lost some of his followers. I no longer wish to Protest this meaning of the Eucharist and I accept it on faith that it becomes the body and blood of our Lord, because Jesus has the Words of Eternal Life and I trust in Jesus, not in my own understanding of how it occurs.
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:02 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Blacksho,

That must be the Catholic Bible....
Blacksho89 »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:51 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"If you will confess the Lord Jesus Christs and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead,(and be baptized by sprinkling, not immersion, and make your Easter duty every year, and go to confession, and do not read the Bible for yourself-well, OK, you can read it for yourself, but only if you are of Noble birth, and be confirmed in the Church of Rome) you will be saved."

I missed that part.
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:34 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"I'll tell you if you know scripture you will NEVER CEASE PRAYING to GOD always for yourself, for your brothers and sisters, and for all the Martyrs and Saints. Everyone needs prayers and nobody is to good for them, just as no one can know to much about GOD or ever be to close to GOD."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, I definitely agree with you there. But when a prayer has been answered, there is no need to keep praying. And I have found the Truth a long time ago. so you're wasting your breath praying for something that I've already received.
Prophet »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:33 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"No better example then this to show your PRIDE that blinds the TRUTH."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nothing compares to Catholic pride. It is their signature. They have more faith in Catholicism than in Jesus.
believer »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:09 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

msuper, can't and won't answer for Prophet so I'll answer for myself I found the Truth on May 31st, 1971 when I came to accept Christ as my Savior and Lord. John 14:6, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no one can come unto the Father but through Me." So before you start accusing others of the sin of pride you might ask them to clarify what they meant! :)
song2vs4 »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:36 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

doubtful they need a certificate to prove they aren't in the Faith. How sad.
msupertekk »

Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:05 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Prophet = You have said that you will pray for me until I find the truth. Thanks. You can stop praying. I found the Truth a long time ago.

**********************************************************
No better example then this to show your PRIDE that blinds the TRUTH. You don't need my prayers to our GOD because you already know everything. I'll tell you if you know scripture you will NEVER CEASE PRAYING to GOD always for yourself, for your brothers and sisters, and for all the Martyrs and Saints. Everyone needs prayers and nobody is to good for them, just as no one can know to much about GOD or ever be to close to GOD.

I will keep you in my prayers just as I keep all my Christian brothers and sisters regardless of thier denomination and the apostles the saints, the church and the Martyrs.

Thessalonians 1 5:17 = {Pray without ceasing. In all circumstances give thanks, for this is the will of GOD, for you in Christ Jesus. Do not QUENCH the SPIRIT. Do not despise what prophetic utterences. Test everyting; retain what is good, refrain from every type of Evil.

Humble yourself and give yourself to the LORD, AMEN!
believer »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:58 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

msuper, I did and you choose to reject it, a good example is the way you took John 3 totally out of context to fit your catholic belief that water baptism is required for salvation when the Bible clearly teaches it is not a mandatory requirement for salvation and you as yet have provided any valid scripture that says it is.
Prophet »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:55 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"You see, it is his body it is his blood! It is no symbol!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And yet can you show me where you all have his body, I would appreciate it. Unless that is a religious secret that no one can know. And after thousands of years, how do you keep getting flesh and blood from it? I'm sure he probably wasn't more than maybe 6'1", maybe 200 pounds at the most. There's not enough flesh and blood for the millions of Catholics who are alive today, much less the millions that were alive over the centuries.
Prophet »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:52 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Much of the Catholic's doctrines are in complete opposition to the Word of God. You have said that you will pray for me until I find the truth. Thanks. You can stop praying. I found the Truth a long time ago. It wasn't in a cult led by one fallible, sinful man. It was in a true relationship with my Lord Jesus who is infallible and perfect. His Words are true and just. And upon His precepts and His Truth I base my life.
Prophet »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:49 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"Prophet you speak not with your heart but with your pride and this blinds your judgement.'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually, I speak with the Spirit of God.
msupertekk »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:48 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

chas, ihs --- the TRUTH WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL, PRAISE GOD AMEN!
msupertekk »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:47 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

It is not extrabiblical I am quoting scripture from your protestant bible and my catholic bible, it is you my friend who has the Prophesy of Isaiah upon you. I am still praying for you. Please continue to pray for your brothers and sisters as well. You reject the scripture and the church but say you are following. Back it up with scripture.
believer »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:40 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

chas, Ephesians says for "by" grace not "by cooperating with" grace! Grace, God's undeserved favor! Don't deserve it and can't earn it!
believer »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:37 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

chas, ihs, msuper, it is apparent none of you know what cheap grace theology is as well as the basic teachings of the Bible with regards to water baptism, you preach a works salvation which woefully violates the Word of God, you put more creedance in the extra-biblical teachings of the catholic church than you do the Word of God.
IHS »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:51 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

I am so elated to become a Catholic. I know Msnchris knows what I am saying when I express how excited I will be to finally eat HIS FLESH AND DRINK HIS BLOOD, so I will have Christ life within me more than ever before.

You see, it is his body it is his blood! It is no symbol!
Thank you Jesus Christ for your Holy Catholic Church! I will be the first person in my family to become Catholic in probably 200 years. I hope they all come home soon.
My father who is a pastor really likes the Catholic version of Lent and my Granddad who is a pastor is starting to come around on baptism and confession. Just wait till they read the Early Church Fathers and they will be running around 3rd base for home to Rome sweet Home!
msupertekk »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:47 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

I will pray again for all of you so that you may never rest and continue seeking the truth until you find it, AMEN.
IHS »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:46 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

Yes, I agree Chas! By the way Msnchris70 has been a wonderful teacher!

If all you have to do is believe in the baptist notion or Pentecostal then basically I can live any way I want and I'm saved because when I'm judged I just say let Jesus take my place. Talk about an unthankful person?

My friends in Christ, Jesus redeemed us all, but salvation is an individual thing. The Catholic idea of salvation is more biblical, historical and contextual.
The fact you must respond to Grace through faith working in Love is so common sense I don't know why more people don't see it. Does this mean we have to be perfect? Yes and No. Yes,we should aim to be perfect and a holy saint as the Father is perfect, but we know we will fail. It is by God's grace and our cooperation with it that will save us. So, we do have an active role to play in our salvation.

The Baptist or Pentecostal understanding of faith alone is wrong. The Catholic version of "Saved by Grace through faith working in love" is the most biblical, historical, Apostolic.

I am leaving Evangelical Seminary to become a Catholic Priest.
msupertekk »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:46 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Prophet you speak not with your heart but with your pride and this blinds your judgement.
Chas »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:39 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Baptists and Pentecostals sell Cheap Grace and Cheap faith. They say all you have to do is believe, yet they don't read all the other scriptures that say we must respond to that Grace to be saved. That we must cooperate with it, and we can choose to reject it at any time.

How do we reject God, by our works. How do we cooperate with His Grace and show our true faith, by our works. Your works reveal the integrity of your faith and it is either deep or it is shallow or non-existant. Faith can only be judged by our hearts, and our hearts must be conditioned to respond positively to God and how are our hearts conditioned-through our works!

When you live a life of true faith your heart is conditioned for charity and love of God and neighbor with joy that lights up your life as an example to others. You have the light within you because you have cooperated with God's grace at the highest level of receptance. When you don't live a life of faith your heart is conditioned for selfishness, insecurity, fear and instability.

God will judge our hearts and our hearts are where our faith will be judged. Our works reveal our faith and those works conditions our hearts to either respond to God's grace or reject it.
msupertekk »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:38 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Add CHAS to the list of those WHO SPEAK THE TRUTH, thnx:)
Chas »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:31 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

You must cooperate with God's grace to be saved guys. If you don't get baptized, you simply won't be saved.

How do we cooperate with His Grace, we act on our faith; keep the commandments, baptized and persevere in the faith to the end. You see, while salvation is a free gift, we must respond which is a work of faith. It is faith that drives us to be baptized, but faith alone will not save you. Sorry, not my rules.

Faith alone will not save you. Faith working in love will.
believer »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:22 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

msuper, thank you for seeing the error of your way in this matter because that's exactly what the Bible teaches, that a true believer will follow and obey the Lord by being water baptized!
Prophet »

Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:14 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

"SO basically there are some CERTAIN ODD and 1 in a MILLION situations that occurr that one may find salvation without Baptism."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So salvation isn't set in stone?

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