Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Society|Mon, Jun. 01 2009 09:01 AM EDT

Late-Term Abortion Doctor Tiller Killed

By Michelle A. Vu|Christian Post Reporter

The notorious late-term abortion provider Dr. George Tiller was killed inside his church Sunday morning.

  • Tiller
    (Photo: AP / Orlin Wagner)
    A small memorial of flowers stands along a fence outside the Women's Health Care Clinic in Wichita, Kan., Sunday, May 31, 2009. The clinic is owned by George Tiller who was gunned down at church Sunday.

He was shot by a gunman while serving as an usher at Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita, Kan. Although Tiller had been the focus of many pro-life activists, they were quick to distance themselves from the killing and condemn it as a “cowardly” act of violence.

“We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down,” said Troy Newman, president of the Operation Rescue, on Sunday. “We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning.”

Newman had moved his Christian pro-life group from California to Kansas years earlier just to shut down Tiller’s clinic. He emphasized his organization worked only through “peaceful, legal means” to stop abortion, and sent his condolences to the Tiller family.

Likewise, the national pro-life women’s group Susan B. Anthony List strongly condemned the “anti-life act.” They argue that the only way for “authentic progress” in women’s rights to occur is through protecting everyone’s human rights.

“The rights of one human being can never be honored by diminishing or ignoring the rights of another,” said Susan B. Anthony List president Majorie Dannenfelser. She said members will pray for Tiller’s family.

Tiller was the most prominent provider of controversial late-term abortions in the nation. He has been accused of performing abortions even the day before a baby is due. His close friend and fellow physician Warren Hern of Colorado told the Los Angeles Times that after Tiller’s death he was now “the only doctor in the world” who provided very late-term abortions.

During Tiller’s many years of practice, he is said to have performed over 80,000 abortions, according to Priests for Life.

Prior to Sunday’s shooting, Tiller had been the target of other acts of violence, including being shot in both arms in 1993. Earlier in 1986, his clinic was bombed. And more recently there were acts of vandalism on his clinic.

His death comes just two months after the Kansas court acquitted him on 19 charges of illegal abortions. Each of the 19 counts carried a possible penalty of one year in prison and a $2,500 fine.

While most anti-abortion activists expressed complete abhorrence at the murder of Tiller, some modified their responses by highlighting the kind of life he led.

“George Tiller was a mass-murderer,” stated Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue. “We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God.”

Now after Tiller’s death, Terry and other pro-life activists are fearful that abortion proponents will use the incident to their advantage and that there will be a public backlash to the pro-life movement.

Several pro-life leaders expressed concerns that the Obama administration and Democratic leaders will use what they call an “isolated episode” to “demonize” the whole pro-life movement, according to the Times.

Wichita police have arrested a 51-year-old man near Kansas City suspected in the murder.

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  • Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:53 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show I live in Wichita. This was a very dark day for my city. People like the man who shot Dr. Tiller are who give Pro-Lifers a bad name. Let me just say that killing is never the answer. It goes completely against the goal of respecting and protecting LIFE. And to shoot a man down in front of his family and friends at his church is just...beyond words. Not that there is a *good* place to kill someone, but of all places for that OR guy to kill him, he chose his CHURCH? hide

  • Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:15 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Blacksho89 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:31 pm "I don't see the type of outrage by the anti-arbotionists being used to stop the whackos on their side and preventing people from doing lawful medical practices." Than you are not looking. See the comments on http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090601/late-term-abortion-doctor-tiller-killed/index.html
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: So an article that gives lip service is supposed to be doing something?

    Here is what should and needs to be done, everyone of the folks who support the killer and grant hero status should be forced to shut down and every abortion activist who claims to be peaceful should dedicate themselves to the effort to make every moment used to insure that happens. That everyone of those mentioned of the ilk of killer types be investigated till the evidence linking criminal activity is found, they are charged, tried, convicted and sent away for life without possibility of parole.

    Every abortion protester must stop haunting the clinics and harassing the users and leave them alone. Follow FACE and not interfere one iota with anyone seeking the treatment thee and just handle it without contact with anyone whatsoever then they will have shown they are serious about it and can still write and contact law makers and sue to change the law.

    Very simple and keeps violence from happening period and follows the law directly. Anyone who disagrees are just supportive of the anti abortionist killers since they are engaging in support of contact directly and that leads to interference and eventual violence and violations of FACE.
    TFR

  • Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    What old student said.

  • Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Jim, Someone flagged my compliment on your post and my condolences about the cat. I'll pray for all of you during this time of grief. hide

  • Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Jim, Thanks for the simple, clear explanation. PS: I will be praying for all of you during this time of grief. hide

  • Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:42 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    jj,

    sorry about the delay, had the cat die this week after being found by the kids, been busy.

    You said,

    oldstudent: Then trust god's understanding and not yours, right? It clearly states in the bible that god didn't count the babies in the census, must mean he only cares about adults or those that have reached an age of accountability.

    "The only scripture christians trot out to say that abortion is wrong is the one about god knowing us in the womb. Well, god wasn't talking to children, was he? He was talking to adults, he knew them. Not fetuses. Clearly god doesn't give two squirts about fetuses or babies as far as that is concerned."

    Your claim is wrong on a few accounts.

    An unborn child is a human, there is no evidence to say otherwise. The child is a separate human being and not an extension of the mother as science tells us (separate blood, DNA, etc). With the obvious scientific aspects in place;

    1. Since an unborn child is a human and the child has committed no malicious or unintentionally wrong acts against the mother, it is premeditated murder to kill the child.
    A. The child is the result of actions taken by the mother and the father. Whether they desired to make a child is irrelevant, what matters is that they did so. Since the child is a human and is innocent as far as culpability goes, it is murder.
    B. Exodus 20 is where one can find the prohibition against murder.

    2. I do trust God's understanding and since He made an unequivocal statement against murdering a human being, that is trusting His understanding.

    3. The term fetus in the original Greek is a technical term that includes small children outside the womb so to use the term for only those inside the womb is to misuse the word because the intent (if known) is to try to make a difference where none exists.

    4. Of course God was talking to adults....by extending your statement to its logical conclusion children unable to understand what God said were exempted from His expectations (remember the Law was an everlasting law for ALL in the covenant which included the children if they followed God as they grew older). Since He was speaking to adults and not children, you should understand the plain words He used to prohibit murder.

    Case closed.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    jj, never said your premise was wrong with regards to unborn babies going to heaven, but it still does not justify the pain and discomfort an unborn baby is put through to justify that premise, plus these abortion providers could care less about the eternal well being of the unborn baby. I doubt you would hear any of them say that God called them to this profession to assist Him in getting more souls into heaven. Plus, you assume that everybody to include many Christians believe that unborn babies go directly to heaven in the first place.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thanks Mathetes,
    For making my statement "coherent".

    I quoted someone's statement and thought the connection between Sanger and Hitler to be an obvious conclusion, one that would be hard to argue with.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show jj, You don't recognize Delight's references? Both are historical. Hitler showed the world how to exterminate what he considered inferior adults and children who were burdens on society. Sanger showed it was more efficient to prevent those she considered burdens from being born in the first place. hide

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:23 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    believer, tell me where my premise went wrong.

    delight, I haven't a clue as to what you're talking about, please restructure your argument into a coherent statement.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:59 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    jj, and I notice you continue to ignore the reality of the pain and discomfort caused to the unborn baby in the womb and the baby who is 90% outside the womb when they are blungeoned to death as a result of a partial birth emotion! The reality is your premise makes no sense and appears only to be an attempt on your part to affirm your personal rejection of Christianity.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show >>"Why can't you, me or the dog catcher be a 'saint' as Tiller is and murder the mentally handicapped?"<< Wow. Isn't this where Hitler and Margaret Sanger agree? Want to see what the "saints" like Tiller has wrought. Would this finally address your issue, jjdiogenes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKF5ZGDSw8&feature=PlayList&p=347297A73AADD26F&index=46 hide

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:23 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    believer, I asked the question before. And it appears as though you are not going to address the issue (your response was not coherent given the issue raised - age of accountability and abortion). I didn't diminish the emotional pain of those women, I did however point out your logical inconsistancy in that effort. In any case, it's clear you're not interested in having a dialogue on the subject so all the best to you.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    jj, it appears you are the one avoiding the issue, you make all these cavalier statements with no regard to those who have experienced the trauma of an abortion and you feel no accountability to your posts since after all you were simply making a point. And by the way exactly what is the point you're trying to make because for the life of me I don't get it, since I already stated that the baby in the womb does indeed experience pain and discomfort while being aborted and in fact the older the infant the more pain and discomfort it experiences and especially in the case of partial birth abortions and you seem to say that is okay because after all we're sending them all to heaven.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:11 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    believer, well I can see that you're going to completely ignore the issue at hand and focus on something else - no offense but that is a typical christian thing to do. Also, when I asked serious questions like that, I always recieved answers like that - intended to elicit a feeling of guilt or remorse instead of addressing the issue itself.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    jj, my point to what you shared in your last post was that your posts made it look like having an abortion was like taking an aspirin, no big deal. And not only is it a big deal while going through the procedure it is also a big deal after the procedure is over and it is a procedure that impacts the physical, mental, enotional, and spiritual areas of a person's life. And your posts appeared to be very callous and disrespectful to those women. I don't believe that was your intention, but in the process of making your point you appeared to come across in that way.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:40 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    believer, you're still missing the point - answer the me based on my statements to you. If we're just passing through in this life, what difference do the feelings of a few mothers make? Also, you're not being consistant in your application of logic, if they made the choice to have sex and then they have do deal with the consequences of pregnancy, why not deal with the consequences of abortion?

    Remember, they made the choice and many of them only regret getting pregnant or not having the opportunity to have a healthy kid (the ones that abort fetuses that will either be still born or die shortly thereafter).

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    jj, as I said I think you show a complete disregard for the feelings and emotions of those women as well as the fathers of those aborted babies and the reality is many women who have an abortion come away scarred not only physically, but emotionally, mentally, and spiritually as well. And the sad thing is the abortion providers do little if anything to assist their clients after they have the abortion. Plus, depending on the age of the unborn baby they too experience pain and discomfort during the abortion, the more along the child is the more pain and discomfort they will experience and especially in the cases of partial birth abortions.

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:05 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    It's a good thing that, under grace, that God doesn't side with killing these guys like this. With 49 million abortions already done, an eye for an eye would get pretty messy....

  • Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    believer, My christian experience wasn't ruined by any one thing, it was a culmination of things - some of which I've experienced on this site. In any case, you're not dealing with the underlying theme of my email, you're engaging in a common christian tactic which is to suggest that something happened to my "christian experience" - if christians believe that we're only passing through in this life and that because of the age of accountability, then what is wrong with abortion? And why shouldn't we look at him as a saint?

    Do some people regret it later? Sure, some people regret having kids though too, what does that have to do with the underlying theme?

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    jj, I sense something went real bad in your Christian experience, but your responses totally lack any thought of concern or compassion for those women who went through an abortion and are now regretting that decision and to the many babies who have been murdered as a result of abortion.

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ifeeline, thanks for that honest response but I can't believe you don't know who the thumbs man is!! :0)

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:27 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    mathetes, I'm surprised it wasn't obvious - I am a former christian who is now agnostic but is leaning towards atheism.

    I used myself as an example because I didn't want to be so glib (as someone else stated) about anyone else. I believe you only get this life so of course I am glad my mother didn't abort me - I was merely pointing out the obvious inconsistancy in most christian's position on abortion. You can't believe in the age of accountability and think that what this guy was doing was bad. That doesn't make sense because theoretically, he sent a bunch of people to heaven that otherwise would have went to hell. Not that it matters, but I am still unsure about abortion, something doesn't feel right about it - my only snipe was at christianity - not at abortion per se. Do you see where I am coming from now?

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:02 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "(tact on the internet is not one of my strong suits)"

    Like...as if it's one of mine! I will say though that I am WAY more tactful than I was in high school. One of my best friends said I had all the tact of a Sherman tank back then.... :D

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Ifeelfine, I was wondering the same thing. It seems we have lurkers who give the "thumbs-down" simply because of the poster, not the post itself. hide

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer: And I appreciate that and try to do the same (but it isn't always easy - sometimes its easy to slip) . . . incidentally, who would give you thumbs down for that post? . . . I don't get that at all. Reveal yourself! :)

  • DRJ »
    Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Now THIS is the definition of warped theology: "Unfortunately there is no proof that when a baby dies it goes to heaven. There is quite a bit of theology which leans in that direction but the Bible doesn't say that. Therefore, it's possible that he sent 80,000 souls to hell without a chance to repent.

    Keep in mind that I do believe in the age of accountability but I also understand that God would be within His right to send unsaved children, let alone the rest of us, to hell."

    Here is a person who knows little, if anything, about the grace of God. This person is no doubt one of those who believes that his god's SOVEREIGNTY trumps the LOVE and GRACE of the true God of Creation. Of course, his god is also called Satan.

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    jjdiogenes,
    Please read this whole post. I ask this earnestly, with no animus towards you in my heart. I'm simply trying to understand your point of view and take it to its logical conclusion.

    You wrote: "photche: Don't hurl insults, tell me why you think that it is worse to send all of them to heaven than to let them live and have 3/4 of them or more go to hell?"

    A while later on the "A Wicked Thing..." page, you wrote about what happens when a person dies: "Absolutely nothing happens - that is why I would think that if there is a heaven and a hell, then it would have been infintely more compassionate for my mother to have aborted me because I would have gone right to heaven, correct? As it stands now, I am going to hell to be poked in the butt with a pitchfork for eternity, correct?"

    Aside from your comical idea about hell, do you really believe it would have been better if your mother had aborted you? Not according to Christian beliefs, but according to your own. Is it not in keeping with the values of individualism and free will, that you were allowed to be born and make your own choices? You don't really think that someone should take that choice from you, do you? According to what you have said you believe, should someone have made the choice for you?

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:18 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    ifeelfine, guilty as charged and when I do and it is pointed out, I make a practice as much as possible of making amends to that poster and in fact I've done that with you personally on a couple of occassions.

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer & DP: I will say that I have made some statements that cut a little closer than I would have liked (tact on the internet is not one of my strong suits) but you have to admit that you've done and continue to do the same exact things - competely ignore or take out of context different postings, etc. Be honest with yourselves guys . . . for what it's worth, I've said before I'm a married (to a woman) dad of two . . . so Dude will be fine! :)

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:41 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    jj....

    where in the bible does God say you can't have sex with a 1 year old?


    oldstudent: Then trust god's understanding and not yours, right? It clearly states in the bible that god didn't count the babies in the census, must mean he only cares about adults or those that have reached an age of accountability.

    The only scripture christians trot out to say that abortion is wrong is the one about god knowing us in the womb. Well, god wasn't talking to children, was he? He was talking to adults, he knew them. Not fetuses. Clearly god doesn't give two squirts about fetuses or babies as far as that is concerned.

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:09 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "ifeelfine, you have made degrading comments about those of us in the past who have disagreed with your point of view."

    ifeelfine...please don't tell me you are disagreeing with this statement. Dude!!! (or Dudette!!!) I will have to say you've don't better lately but, yes, you have not always been kind in the past to say the least!

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:07 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    jj, it is apparent you could care less what God has to say about anything, since you appear to be either an atheist or an agnostic, so why are you so concerned what He has to say about the unborn child, other than to come on these sites just to aggravate people?

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:03 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    ifeelfine, you have made degrading comments about those of us in the past who have disagreed with your point of view. And if you're unclear about that, then maybe it is you who need to revisit your own posts and see exactly what I'm talking about!

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:34 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "Norma McCorvey-the Jane Roe from the Roe v Wade Supreme Court Decision, was arrested on the Notre Dame Campus while protesting the visit by Barack Obama."

    danpat-"Nothing new about this. McCorvey repented several years ago and attends daily Mass and receives the Lord's Body and Blood each day."

    "Same with Ann Rice the wicci and vampire girl, and many more"

    I'd be cautious about using Anne Rice for name dropping purposes, until you read what she really believes. Read some of her quotes..
    http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/anne-rice.htm

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:54 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    oldstudent: Then trust god's understanding and not yours, right? It clearly states in the bible that god didn't count the babies in the census, must mean he only cares about adults or those that have reached an age of accountability.

    The only scripture christians trot out to say that abortion is wrong is the one about god knowing us in the womb. Well, god wasn't talking to children, was he? He was talking to adults, he knew them. Not fetuses. Clearly god doesn't give two squirts about fetuses or babies as far as that is concerned.

  • Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:49 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer: Please cite my posts where I have made things up about you . . . it should be simple, just click on my user name to see all of my posts. I address any post to you directly by name so it shouldn't take you very long.

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:42 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Some seem confused about the person in charge of the universe and whether God's authority and knowledge is far superior to ours. God, being the creator has the responsibility and inherent right to take life and humans do not because humans are not our creation but His. God knows FAR more and FAR better than any person on this planet or on this thread so He has the ability, knowledge and responsibility to make and take life because He is the creator of life.

    Murder is the premeditated, cold blooded and irresponsible taking of life that is not yours to take. God by definition cannot be a murderer by action or inaction because it is His creation and His right and responsibility to remove life from this ball of dirt. Only He knows what would become of the people of Ai if they were permitted to live, you and I do not. Only God has the right and responsibility to make this decision independent of others because only He is the creator of said life.

    To ask and question why God would allow or order things to be done is just fine and to be expected (just like kids asking a parent about something they do not understand). What is arrogant and unwise is thinking that any of us are wise enough, smart enough or morally superior enough to think we know better than He does. For those of us who have, are or will do so in the future, the last few chapters of Job help to elucidate the mind to just how limited and unwise we truly are.

    With all that being said, killing Tiller was an act of premeditated murder by this guy and is not of Scripture nor of God Himself. I will admit to having a more difficult time feeling pity for Tiller but I know that is sinful. He most likely will spend an eternity away from anything good because he chose to reject the One who is good and decided to not be around Him.
    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    "if you would listen to Tiller's patients you would hear about a caring man willing to put his own life on the line to help them."

    Right. And Satan is a kindly being too. He even wanted to give Jesus many gifts.

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    "Norma McCorvey-the Jane Roe from the Roe v Wade Supreme Court Decision, was arrested on the Notre Dame Campus while protesting the visit by Barack Obama."

    Nothing new about this. McCorvey repented several years ago and attends daily Mass and receives the Lord's Body and Blood each day.

    Same with Ann Rice the wicci and vampire girl, and many more.

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Rhi....

    because of unbelief! They sinned against God. Now, you have Jesus, so confess your sins and you'll be forgiven.

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The Smoking Gun...what did I tell my Protestant brethern:

    The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the=2 0Superior Court of California. The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship. This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obamaâ

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:30 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    rhi, I didn't say that all abortions are easy or selfish choices, but the reality is that many of them are such as the examples I cited, but the ones you share are a very small percentage of the thousands of abortions that are performed each year in our nation. For the most part abortions are a matter of convenience on the part of those who obtain them or in many cases are based on misinformation, such as the young airman who was told that it would be a bad decision for her to have her baby and put it up for adoption since you can't tell what kind of people would adopt her. However, the interesting thing their discovering is when the woman is shown an ultrasound of the child in her womb many of them change their mind, but low and behold who's opposed to these being made mandatory or having a waiting period, well surprise, surprise, planned parenthood and naral are!

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    ifeelfine, "I'll start making up things on you", like that's anything new for you!

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:03 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Believer, murder is murder. So God ordered the murder of the infants and pregant women of Ai and in other OT stories. Not very pro-life this God who commands the death of every man, woman child and baby. However, theologians have been explaining that away for centuries. Much easier with Dr. Tiller. He is a medical doctor doing a procedure required by a tiny but significant number of women. Did you listen to his patient who was on CNN? Her baby had no brain and not much of a head. The child was planned and wanted. You would require women in difficult situations be banned from medical aid. The woman, an adult in consultation with her husband and competant medical advice chose to have a late term abortion. With so few doctors doing the procedure because of the acts of bombing, murder, assault, death threats etc., the murder of Dr. Tiller attempts to force women to do it according to your interpretation of the Bible. I have heard the propaganda on third trimester abortion. It's not pretty. Neither is a lot of surgery. My point is you make assumptions about people in crisis whom you do not know. You hold them to a standard not mentioned in the Bible. You conveniently overlook that your Biblical viewpoint is yours just as Dr. Tiller's is his. Is your solution to simply resort to violence when others will not follow your religious views? What penalty will you impose on the women who seek abortions? The emotional appeal against abortion is powerful. But in a court, face to face with the evidence of the real situations of the women Dr. Tiller serves, a jury of people of Kansas(not in my mind the most liberal state in the U.S.) found him not guilty. Do you really like the lawlessness and being promoted by so many in the pro-life movement? In one post you say -Tiller is not God- neither are you. Doctors make medical choices. Would you rather ban all doctors and leave it to God to decide if a person recovers from illness? I have seen a lot of children who owe their lives to surgeons. These doctors would love a little more help from God.

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    What do you think you'd hear from the babies Tiller killed??



    Throughitall- actually, if you would listen to Tiller's patients you would hear about a caring man willing to put his own life on the line to help them. During a seminar I presented some years ago, I differentiated between many pro-life people(quite a few are friends)and those who have become part of the religion of the fetus. The unborn can be whatever they fantasize. Better to yell "baby killer," than to actually work to save the millions of children right now suffering without food, medical care, clean water or shelter. The doctrine of the religion of the fetus requires its follower demonize doctors, clinic workers, in some cases the women seeking abortion. I suspect Dr. Tiller went to church because he was seeking to follow Jesus. Next time you are at a clinic protest(if you go)you might reflect upon how few Christians share your condemnatory attitude even if they are opposed to abortion.

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:43 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Throughitall- actually, if you would listen to Tiller's patients you would hear about a caring man willing to put his own life on the line to help them. During a seminar I presented some years ago, I differentiated between many pro-life people(quite a few are friends)and those who have become part of the religion of the fetus. The unborn can be whatever they fantasize. Better to yell "baby killer," than to actually work to save the millions of children right now suffering without food, medical care, clean water or shelter. The doctrine of the religion of the fetus requires its follower demonize doctors, clinic workers, in some cases the women seeking abortion. I suspect Dr. Tiller went to church because he was seeking to follow Jesus. Next time you are at a clinic protest(if you go)you might reflect upon how few Christians share your condemnatory attitude even if they are opposed to abortion.

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Again.... jjdiogenes »

    "Mentally handicapped children won't ever be accountable so it doesn't matter right? In any case, I'm not advocating abortion, I'm pointing out the fallacy of the "christian" position on it."

    Your not pointing out any fallacy. You believe you are. Since most believe including you, that the 'mentally handicapped' aren't capable of making a decision on this issue, (or others) then they really aren't any different than babies are they? Even if one is BORN, and the other is UNBORN, they're bascially in the same mental state aren't they?

    <And I'm not in favor of murder. I am against the death penalty too.>

    Do babies have the same DNA as their parents or is there DNA different?

    "For what it's worth, your bible shows that infants have no value - they aren't counted in the census, they aren't given "eye for an eye" value. So the bible doesn't seem to have issue with abortion."

    It does? Do you have a bible? If so please turn to these verses.

    Matthew 18:1-3

    At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, â

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    I'm not missing anything, and I am on task. I'm just further up the task ladder.

    If the unborn are going to heaven for being unaccountable
    And the mentally handicapped based on their unaccountability, are as well,

    Why can't you, me or the dog catcher be a 'saint' as Tiller is and murder the mentally handicapped?

    Both have basically the same unaccountability correct?


    "Lewr2: You're completely missing the point. Stay on task . . . if all "unborn babies" go straight to heaven and we're just passing through in this life, why shouldn't Dr Tiller be regarded as a saint for sending those "babies" straight up to heaven?"

  • Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:18 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    believer: I flagged your post - I've told you that I've never said that. If you claim that I have, cite it, otherwise cut it out. If you say it again, I'll start making things up about you!

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