Updated 09:38 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Mon, Jun. 08 2009 07:43 PM EDT

Christians Urged to Repent of Religion

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

Religion may be choking the growth of Christianity in America.

It's not so much postmodernism that many Christians lament of, or the "harder hearts" of the younger generation, or a less interested God that's causing more and more pews to be empty. Rather, the culprit seems to be religion, as one Durham, N.C., pastor pointed out.

"Religion seems to choke out the Gospel among God's people," J.D. Greear, lead pastor of The Summit Church, told hundreds of pastors at Advance, a conference on the resurgence of the local church.

And until Christians repent of religion, no program, energy, or strategy will help them to grow, Greear said Friday.

Greear, 36, helped grow The Summit (originally Homestead Heights Baptist Church) from 400 people to some 3,000 and is continually reaching people from throughout the Triangle area. He doesn't claim to be an expert at church "revitalization" but he says he knows there are some things that have to happen in order for a church to revitalize around the Gospel.

And looking around the churches in his community and across the Bible Belt where churchgoers are getting fewer and older, he sees people asking "why?"

Why is God not moving? What is it about us? Greear posed.

Citing what Jesus reprimanded over 2,000 years ago, Greear said religion is keeping Christians from effectively carrying out God's will.

"In religion, there's no passion for God, there's no hunger to know Him," the Summit pastor said.

For "religious people," Christianity becomes more of a checklist of duties and behaviors – such as small group involvement, volunteering, taking a mission trip, and reading the Bible.

"That's what religion does. It reduces God to a set of duties," Greear noted.

In addition to substituting love for God for religious ritual, religious people often elevate secondary matters – such as dress code, alcohol, politics, taking care of the earth – above a love for God.

"We got churches that are filled with people who think they're going to heaven because they don't cuss, or drink bear, or because they vote Republican," he said.

"The tragedy is is our emphasis on those things has kept us from calling them to real repentance."

The secondary traditions are important, but Greear noted that they've often replaced "the real thing."

"Anytime we preach a Gospel that leaves people thinking about what they're supposed to do for God and not what God has done for them, we have preached a false Gospel," he said to some applause.

Other characteristics of religious people, the young pastor listed, include seeking recognition and praise from people and elevating religious ritual over love for others.

"Religious people have a lot of rules but they don't have love," Greear said, adding that they are usually angry, judgmental and more concerned with winning an argument.

While religion makes one selfish and self-focused, the Gospel is about overwhelming love, he pointed out.

"One of the reasons we're so ineffective to people outside of Christianity [is] it appears we're trying to show them that we're better than they are," he said. "They know we're not."

Urging the pastors to return to a love for the Gospel, Greear called them to repentance – not of sin but of religion.

The 2009 Advance conference was held in Durham, N.C., June 4-6. Other speakers included theologian John Piper, Seattle pastor Mark Driscoll, and missiologist Ed Stetzer, among others.

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  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:46 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    ''There are four different subjects I've been on the most today, so this message will be on all of them so everyone I've been talking to will know where I've gone and they won't think I'm ignoring them.''

    Well I've only posted once on this one today, but it's been regular recently.

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:44 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    There are four different subjects I've been on the most today, so this message will be on all of them so everyone I've been talking to will know where I've gone and they won't think I'm ignoring them.

    I have come to the conclusion that the time spent on CP would be better spent taking the Gospel directly to people and if they refuse it I can shake the dust, and move on, as that is what we are told to do, not to debate with people who are only on here to cause trouble and mock God.

    To all the my brothers and sisters in Christ, it's been nice talking to you, bless you all and we will meet again, only face to face and we will be with our Lord Jesus Christ for all eternity, praising his Holy Name, how exciting is that.

    Love you all.

    Goodbye for now! x

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ''Please do me a favor, danpart. If you're going to argue Scripture, please study the Scriptures.''

    And do me a favor, realise that there is only one way to heaven, that Christ paid it all and that the catholic church are teaching so many sinful doctrines, that will land all that believe them and not Jesus Christ in hell.

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:11 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "This gets dumber all the time. A perfect, pure, and sinless God would chose a woman who had sin on her soul to bear His Son to enter the world to save us from sin. God and sin are an "oxymoron."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You know what annoys me? Catholics who argue about things, but they don't know the Scriptures. They just repeat every false doctrine of the Catholic Church without studying and finding out if it's true.

    Romans 8 says this about Jesus...."For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh"

    That is why Jesus was born to a sinful woman. Please do me a favor, danpart. If you're going to argue Scripture, please study the Scriptures.

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ''You'll believe it when you get there: bring some ice water.''

    No that's hell where people thirst, and anyway when we die we take nothing with us.

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ''This is not the belief of Protestant Historians, Theologians, Catholic Historians and Theologians, the early Church Fathers, all of the Reformers, and all of history through to the Apostles.''

    You mean all of the above, unsaved people and the apostles you are talking about must be the false ones, not the ones in the Bible, as they knew the Lord's brothers and sisters.

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ''This gets dumber all the time. A perfect, pure, and sinless God would chose a woman who had sin on her soul to bear His Son to enter the world to save us from sin. God and sin are an "oxymoron."''

    ''For ALL have sinned''

    ALL!

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "You'll believe it when you get there: bring some ice water."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    Catholic truth chucker.

    What I do believe is the truth...It is appointed unto men once to die and then the judgement.

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "This is not the belief of Protestant Historians, Theologians, Catholic Historians and Theologians, the early Church Fathers, all of the Reformers, and all of history through to the Apostles."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It's a good thing I believe what the Scriptures say, rather than people.

    Again, another example of Catholics chucking Scriptures.

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "This gets dumber all the time. A perfect, pure, and sinless God would chose a woman who had sin on her soul to bear His Son to enter the world to save us from sin. God and sin are an "oxymoron."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Another oxymoron: Catholic Christian.

    For ALL have sinned....

    For


    All


    have


    sinned....



    Now, I know it's customary for Catholics to just chuck Scripture out the window when it contradicts their false doctrines, but I just want everyone to see just how wrong Catholics are.

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Purgatory is a lie."

    You'll believe it when you get there: bring some ice water.

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mary was not a perpetual virgin.

    This is not the belief of Protestant Historians, Theologians, Catholic Historians and Theologians, the early Church Fathers, all of the Reformers, and all of history through to the Apostles.

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Mary was not sinless."

    This gets dumber all the time. A perfect, pure, and sinless God would chose a woman who had sin on her soul to bear His Son to enter the world to save us from sin. God and sin are an "oxymoron."

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:07 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "True and I agree with His Word. It is your interpretation I disagree with as in all heresies like those delineated below"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And the Catholic heresy, which I have exposed by the Word of God, is something that God has no part of.

    Mary was not sinless.
    Mary was not a perpetual virgin.
    Mary is not the Queen of Heaven.
    Purgatory is a lie.

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Danpat,

    Then you are a liar. You said yourself "" Catholics never "limit" God's power to do anything He wants for they believe Him to be all knowing, all powerful, and all loving."


    So, He is all powerful and can do anything He wants, including exposing ALL truth to ALL His body (which He does.)

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Oh, and also in Galatians...

    "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    You can quote all sorts of theologian "experts" on the topic of Mary's "perpetual virginity." Let me quote God...

    "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him."

    I guess God trumps "theologians".

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:59 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Amne. So you do agree that all who are Christians are part of the Church and equal before God."

    You're losing it. What does this have to do with anything. Chas told you, yes you are a part of the Church but you do not have the whole truth. He is right on. It's a matter of obedience to what Jesus asks us to do. e.g., "Unless you eat of My Flesh and drink of My Blood..."

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:57 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "
    You get more and more illogical. So no Christians died until the 5th century?"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So no Christians died AFTER the first century? Your question is rather stupid. The catacombs are from the 4th and 5th century. I can't change that fact. It is for the Christians who died during that time.
    It seems rather odd that even today we have countless Christians who die who aren't placed in a Christian "catacomb" or anything. (sarcasm) They're just put in a graveyard next to a sinner.
    It is rather interesting that the catacombs date around the time that Catholicism became the official religion of Rome.....

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:50 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Just because God can do anything, doesn't mean He will or wants to. I believe that God can usurp a man's will, but He chooses not to.
    But I would venture to say that God can't go against His own Word. And when a doctrine is created that is clearly anti-Scriptural, I can guarantee that it's not of God, because God cannot/will not go against His own Word. Mary's sinlessness goes against the Word of God and is not a God breathed doctrine. Purgatory goes against the Word of God and is not a God given practice. God cannot go against Himself."

    "But I would venture to say that God can't go against His own Word." True and I agree with His Word. It is your interpretation I disagree with as in all heresies like those delineated below. I've seen it before--you go along until you are tripped up and then say, Oh, well. We'll agree to disagree and love one another and all will be well. Not really...the Holy Spirit cannot contradict Himself. But people believing the HS is on their side are arrogant...

    This type of belief has been seen throughout all of Christianity and it is called heresy. Sure its taken different forms but heresy all the same:

    Docetism teaches that Jesus only appeared to be human as a phantom. On the contrary, the Catholic Church teaches that Christ if fully God and fully human.

    Arianism teaches that Jesus not fully God, but only like God in a subordinate way. On the contrary, the Catholic Church teaches that Christ if fully God and fully man.
    Nestorianism teaches that Jesus is two â

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Cyril of Alexandria: "[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing" (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).
    Pope Leo I: "His [Christâ

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "If that is the same thing that we discussed earlier, I recall that those catacombs were from about the 4th or 5th century. A long cry from the early first century church. More than enough time for the pureness of the Gospel to be tainted by the Catholic Church."

    There is no tainting. It is called history which if you were not to confined within your own mind, you would be able to "google" it yourself or go to a library. But I forgot you could not even go to a dictionary to look up the difference between:

    Worship
    Adoration
    Veneration

    This is why women were not chosen by God to be any of the Apostles. They are purely emotional beings; and have little logic to them. Much like babies, they say "Because I said so." And we'll just "love" one another and that will fix all the illogic interpretations of our Scripture. Right.

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mary Perpetual Virginity VI

    Augustine: "In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave" (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]). ..."It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?" (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]). ..."Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband" (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
    "That same power which brought the body of the young man through closed doors, brought the body of the infant forth from the inviolate womb of the mother."

    Leporius: "We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary" (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).
    Cyril of Alexandria: "[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing" (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).
    Pope Leo I: "His [Christâ

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mary Perpetual Virginity IV

    Early Christian writings from the first centuries

    Athanasius: "Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary" (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).

    Epiphanius of Salamis:"... the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit" (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]). ..."And to holy Mary, [the title] â

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mary Perpetual Virginity III
    Zwingli had printed in 1524 a sermon on 'Mary, ever virgin, mother of God.'
    {Thurian, ibid., p.76}
    I have never thought, still less taught, or declared publicly, anything concerning the subject of the ever Virgin Mary, Mother of our salvation, which could be considered dishonorable, impious, unworthy or evil . . . I believe with all my heart according to the word of holy gospel that this pure virgin bore for us the Son of God and that she remained, in the birth and after it, a pure and unsullied virgin, for eternity.
    Heinrich Bullinger
    Bullinger (d. 1575) . . . defends Mary's perpetual virginity . . . and inveighs against the false Christians who defraud her of her rightful praise: 'In Mary everything is extraordinary and all the more glorious as it has sprung from pure faith and burning love of God.' She is 'the most unique and the noblest member' of the Christian community . . .
    'The Virgin Mary . . . completely sanctified by the grace and blood of her only Son and abundantly endowed by the gift of the Holy Spirit and preferred to all . . . now lives happily with Christ in heaven and is called and remains ever-Virgin and Mother of God.'
    {In Hilda Graef, Mary: A history of Doctrine and Devotion, combined ed. of vols. 1 & 2, London: Sheed & Ward, 1965, vol.2, pp.14-5}
    John Wesley (Founder of Methodism)
    The Blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as when she brought him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin.
    {"Letter to a Roman Catholic" / In This Rock, Nov. 1990, p.25}

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mary Perpetual Virginity II
    Evangelists don't know that most of the early reformers including Martin Luther, Wesley, and Calvin, believed in Mary's perpetual virginity. These reformers are considered scriptural scholars (1) by modern Evangelicals. Yet despite being the founders of the reform, their views on this issue are in complete contrast to modern Evangelical thought. These reformers had no problem with scriptural references to Jesus' "brothers" while maintaining their conviction that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus' birth. Max Thurian (not a Catholic) says "In regard to the Marian doctrine of the Reformers, we have already seen how unanimous they are in all that concerns Mary's holiness and perpetual virginity . . ."(1963). The Early Christians of the first centuries also had this take on Mary's virginity.
    Martin Luther on Mary's Perpetual Virginity
    Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.
    {Luther's Works, eds. Jaroslav Pelikan (vols. 1-30) & Helmut T. Lehmann (vols. 31-55), St. Louis: Concordia Pub. House (vols. 1-30); Philadelphia: Fortress Press (vols. 31-55), 1955, v.22:23 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }
    Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.
    Editor Jaroslav Pelikan (Lutheran) adds:
    Luther . . . does not even consider the possibility that Mary might have had other children than Jesus. This is consistent with his lifelong acceptance of the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary.
    {Pelikan, ibid.,v.22:214-5}
    John Calvin on Mary's Perpetual Virginity
    Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ's 'brothers' are sometimes mentioned.
    [No woman will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation.]
    Under the word 'brethren' the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity.
    {Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, (7:3) }

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "If that is the same thing that we discussed earlier, I recall that those catacombs were from about the 4th or 5th century. A long cry from the early first century church. More than enough time for the pureness of the Gospel to be tainted by the Catholic Church."

    You get more and more illogical. So no Christians died until the 5th century?--the catacombs are their tombs (you many know them under the term "burial places." How silly. Yes, they went all the way through this century and then some up until Constantine gave them their freedom and they did not have to hide anymore. St Peter and St Paul died in Nero's persecution in 67 AD--are you, and after that we have St Lucy, St Agnes, St Polycarp, all of the Apostles died except St John who died in exile on the isle of Patmos around 95 AD. There are a lot more catacombs than the one you select "cafeteria style" from your menu. This is the joke. You say 400 years is too far to be true; yet, you are 1517 and then some away from the truth of Christianity and you know so little able their beliefs unlike even the "Reformers" as you call them.

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mary Perpetual Virginity I

    Since the early church the theme of Mary's virginity has served as an important emblem of Christianity's ascetic ideal. The Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and some Protestant traditions teach the perpetual virginity of Mary, placing a non-literal interpretation on New Testament references to Jesus' â

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "But in your ignorance you dismiss it. In addition the early Christian Martyrs' grave sites back up Christ's Church under St Peter and Protestants feel very uncomfortable on visits to the Catacumbus (the burial places of the first Christians because of all the prayers for the dead in the grafiti) Not early enough for you--a lot earlier than 1517...."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    If that is the same thing that we discussed earlier, I recall that those catacombs were from about the 4th or 5th century. A long cry from the early first century church. More than enough time for the pureness of the Gospel to be tainted by the Catholic Church.

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The cry "God is all powerful and can do as He wants" usually fall from the lips of those who's practices clearly fall outside the Scriptures, and are looking for justification.

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Just because God can do anything, doesn't mean He will or wants to. I believe that God can usurp a man's will, but He chooses not to.
    But I would venture to say that God can't go against His own Word. And when a doctrine is created that is clearly anti-Scriptural, I can guarantee that it's not of God, because God cannot/will not go against His own Word. Mary's sinlessness goes against the Word of God and is not a God breathed doctrine. Purgatory goes against the Word of God and is not a God given practice. God cannot go against Himself.

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    " Catholics never "limit" God's power to do anything He wants for they believe Him to be all knowing, all powerful, and all loving."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Amne. So you do agree that all who are Christians are part of the Church and equal before God.

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I posted a ton of Scripture both OT and NT on Purgatory."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Those scriptures had nothing to do with purgatory. Even a new-born Christian can see that.

    For example...II Samuel 12:13-14

    "And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die."

    Purgatory? C'mon give me a break! David sin and received the fruits of his sin HERE ON EARTH. LOL. I'm sorry for laughing, but the idea of purgatory is simply a fairytale that was created to console those who lost loved ones. It gives them false hope, that if they weren't saved when they died, well, they still have a chance.

    "It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement." No second chances, no mulligans.

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:11 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Let's see. Paul said that we are no longer in bondage to the law, you said the Satan said that as well....Do you even know the scriptures? I swear you just regurgitate that vomit that Catholicism shoves down your throat."

    "in bondage to the law" this is the OT [in case you did not notice St Paul is Jewish) for Jesus brings in a new Covenant as He is the fufillment of the OT

    I posted a ton of Scripture both OT and NT on Purgatory. But in your ignorance you dismiss it. In addition the early Christian Martyrs' grave sites back up Christ's Church under St Peter and Protestants feel very uncomfortable on visits to the Catacumbus (the burial places of the first Christians because of all the prayers for the dead in the grafiti) Not early enough for you--a lot earlier than 1517 when Protestants came stumbling in making up anything they want of Scripture and ignoring history, art, logic, architecture, ancellary Christian writings, the Father's of the Church's writings, the martyrs , et al.

    Yes, Lucifer (God's Highest angel at the time), was guilty of disobedience so it is no small sin: I will not serve was his decrie. Catholics never "limit" God's power to do anything He wants for they believe Him to be all knowing, all powerful, and all loving. Only a Protestant would make a statement, "Well, Jesus could not possibly give us His Body to eat and His Flesh to eat," well - not only can He - He did, and quite plainly (no twisting of Scripture here). Of course Protestants are rejecting this because they have no way to "consecrate the Eucharist" (having rejected the Lord's words. Protestants are in the right church (Christianity) but the wrong pew (the Church Jesus established while on earth under St Peter); and the are doomed to more and more "divisions" as they have no anchor to solidify them (Sola Scriptura leads them all into any position they want to take on any issue--agreeing to love one another is applicable to all Christians but does not solve any logic problems and that is why they fall back on this in their anxiety) which is why so much confusion in their midst (like the Bable of the OT)

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "''I couldn't have done this if I tried...what do you know ... a perfect summary of heresy...(even by your own Reformers)"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Amen. Purgatory is heresy. So is the idea of Mary being sinless (For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God). And Mary's "perputual virginity". Much of what the Catholic Church promotes is heresy, at that.

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Purgatory doesn't exist.
    Mary wasn't sinless.
    Mary wasn't a virgin after Jesus was born.
    Mary isn't the Queen of Heaven, because she isn't married to God.
    She's not the mother of God, since God has no beginning and no end, and therefore was not born.
    The idea of Peter being crucified upside down is a fable. Jesus foretold that he would die of old age.
    Penance is a sham. Jesus did all the work for your forgiveness on the cross. Penance makes His atonement meaningless.
    Salvation is by works, and Jesus did all the work necessary on the cross to secure your salvation. The rest is faith.''


    Very good, and very true!


    ''I couldn't have done this if I tried...what do you know ... a perfect summary of heresy...(even by your own Reformers)''

    Very bad and very wrong!


    ''And on and on the false doctrines come..."

    How did you know! :)

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:52 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Purgatory doesn't exist.
    Mary wasn't sinless.
    Mary wasn't a virgin after Jesus was born.
    Mary isn't the Queen of Heaven, because she isn't married to God.
    She's not the mother of God, since God has no beginning and no end, and therefore was not born.
    The idea of Peter being crucified upside down is a fable. Jesus foretold that he would die of old age.
    Penance is a sham. Jesus did all the work for your forgiveness on the cross. Penance makes His atonement meaningless.
    Salvation is by works, and Jesus did all the work necessary on the cross to secure your salvation. The rest is faith.
    And on and on the false doctrines come..."

    I couldn't have done this if I tried...what do you know ... a perfect summary of heresy...(even by your own Reformers)

  • Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:50 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven at that is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost."

    I'm talking about people who do not repent and do not ask for it ..."for the gate is narrow."

    But you are correct on your post (Catholics call it despair of God's mercy)

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Yah, right - we just finished the "Pauline" year honoring St. Paul for his service and martydom at Rome during the Nero persecution (as was St Peter) Without him we would not be in the Church today and that's why we call him by the honorary titel "Apostle of the Gentiles" Go St Paul (someday you'll get your head back if you haven't already)"


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Let's see. Paul said that we are no longer in bondage to the law, you said the Satan said that as well....Do you even know the scriptures? I swear you just regurgitate that vomit that Catholicism shoves down your throat. About as disgusting too

    Purgatory doesn't exist.
    Mary wasn't sinless.
    Mary wasn't a virgin after Jesus was born.
    Mary isn't the Queen of Heaven, because she isn't married to God.
    She's not the mother of God, since God has no beginning and no end, and therefore was not born.
    The idea of Peter being crucified upside down is a fable. Jesus foretold that he would die of old age.
    Penance is a sham. Jesus did all the work for your forgiveness on the cross. Penance makes His atonement meaningless.
    Salvation is by works, and Jesus did all the work necessary on the cross to secure your salvation. The rest is faith.
    And on and on the false doctrines come...

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "So, if you're destined for Heaven (a/k/a "if you've been saved") but are still unclean at your death, what will happen?"


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    If you accepted Jesus into your life, your spirit is perfect. So if you are unclean at the time of death, you go to hell. Duuuuuuuuuh. LOL.
    Sorry buddy, no second chance to get it right. It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgement. I notice that that scripture doesn't say "It is appointed unto man once to die, then you set around in purgatory hoping that you get it right THIS time, and then the judgement."

    When you're dead it's done. Game over. LOL.

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Hey, I what happened to "the Bible is innerant."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It isn't errant...until a Catholic gets a hold of it. Those scriptures were so far removed from anything remotely resembling purgatory that you might as well have used Genesis 1:1 as another Scripture to support that false doctrine.

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Then you should follow Jesus as Catholics do"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Why follow Jesus as a blind man? My eyes are wide open to His Spirit.

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ''That's why it's called the "deadly" sin, one goes to Hell if he or she does not repent.''

    There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven at that is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Twist all you want, you're the one who called him a devil..."

    Yah, right - we just finished the "Pauline" year honoring St. Paul for his service and martydom at Rome during the Nero persecution (as was St Peter) Without him we would not be in the Church today and that's why we call him by the honorary titel "Apostle of the Gentiles" Go St Paul (someday you'll get your head back if you haven't already)

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hey, two in a row for you Prophet (a partially correct answer)

    "Purging is what happens here on earth."

    The smart ones pray for their purgatory to be done here; (there is no more suffering than the Saints if one reads their lives) Some of it even funny: St Lawrence was put on a spittle and his body turned slowly over a blazing fire: He called out to his murderers "I'm done on this side, turn me over please." Go Larry

    The Lord blessed me each day with more problems and more sufferings. My Baptist girlfriend who suffers from cancer -I always tell her "not to let her sufferings go to waste [she is sad with no hair right now from the chemo] -offer it up for your family who have passed on or for your purging to come.
    Our Lady told the children when they asked "how long people spend in Purgatory?" She answered, "About forty three years..." [these are earth years - time is a manmade device]

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hey, I'm proud of you, Prophet. This is absoultely correct. If one dies with Mortal (Deadly) sin on his or her soul, purgatory is not involved.
    "I forgot the scripture from I John. Talks about mortal sin, but has nothing to do with the idea of purgatory."

    That's why it's called the "deadly" sin, one goes to Hell if he or she does not repent.

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I can't believe that you expect anyone to take those scriptures serious in regards to purgatory. LOL. That takes quite an imagination to do that. But that's what much of the Catholic teacing is...imagination."

    Hey, I what happened to "the Bible is innerant." All of a sudden the Scripture is not "serious." A "pick and choose" Protestant again...(Like Luther, I need to make the Bible fit my erroneous beliefs rather than my erroneous beliefs to the Bible)

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "We know from Scripture that nothing unclean can enter Heaven:''(Yes, and that is the why of Purgatory--all must be perfectly clean before they see the Beatific Vision (God Himself) "But, as it is written: That "eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him."

    "Which is why most Roman catholics will not enter as they have never trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour [Why would we not trust our Founder?)and are relying on works and sinful priests (another judgement of others), instead of trusting that the Lord Jesus has done it all and nothing needs to be, or can be added to that." [He has done it all and expressed in in Scripture but not without His requisites and ALL must be followed not just restructuring His words to heretical beliefs--once you lose His Rock that He established you have no more "anchor" to assure what you believe. (If you were honest you would tour just this site and see all of the new heresy growing and growing, women priestesses, gay and lesbian marriages, gay ministers, et al. I can say for sure you will never see this in Christ's Church. It is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic (Nicene Creed)

    Then you should follow Jesus as Catholics do: "Judge not lest you be judged." "Self" assurance by an individual is "arrogance and pride." Only God can judge where people end up and as I said in an earlier post - we do not even know where Judas ended up "he could have expressed "sorrow" and repented with his last breath.

    "I can't believe people think they are literally drinking the blood of Christ, I just find it crazy."

    Jesus cannot be clearer than below. I grant that it requires and act of faith but no different than the absolute belief in Jesus as Our Savior which is also an act of faith. (Many people say, "I don't believe Jesus is God - I just find it crazy.)"

    Only Christ's blood can make you clean dan. [I am following his words. You need to do what He says also] "No kidding and that's why exactly why I take Him each morning at Mass, but you are choosing not to "Take ye and eat for this "IS" my Body (note it is not "looks like my body); take ye and eat for this "IS" my blood (not that it resembles my blood). Challenged on this "as a hard saying by the Jews" Our Lord did not say, "Oh, oh, of course you misunderstand," NO -- He became even "firmer" -- "Unless you eat of my Flesh and drink of my Blood you Have No Life In You ..." AND "
    (King James Bible) "For my flesh IS meat INDEED, and my blood IS drink INDEED. Nothing unclear here either.

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ''We know from Scripture that nothing unclean can enter Heaven:''

    Which is why most Roman catholics will not enter as they have never trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and are relying on works and sinful priests, instead of trusting that the Lord Jesus has done it all and nothing needs to be, or can be added to that.

    Only Christ's blood can make you clean dan.

    I can't believe people think they are literally drinking the blood of Christ, I just find it crazy.

  • Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I can't believe that you expect anyone to take those scriptures serious in regards to purgatory. LOL. That takes quite an imagination to do that. But that's what much of the Catholic teacing is...imagination.

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